Extra Kickstarter question

[EdzUp]

I see on the forum a rather long post about Kickstarting space legs, this got me wondering would anyone kickstart ALL the 'original Elite ships' so they could be added into Elite Dangerous?

For me this seems to be a more realistic idea and one thing that could be implemented much easier than space legs

Thoughts?

 

[Noctover]

I think this whole kickstart new content thing is a dangerous president that needs to be nipped in the bud. If they want to make a sequel i'll kick start it, not content for a game i've already bought.

 

[Kaltern]

Pretty sure most of the ships in the older games we don't have are unable to be added due to copyright issues.

 

[EdzUp]

Pretty sure most of the ships in the older games we don't have are unable to be added due to copyright issues.

But they were in Frontier First Encounters so I dont think its a copyright issue.

 

[Factabulous]

I think there's a lot of people fundamentally misunderstanding what kickstarter does.

Anyway, I'm off to start a Kickstarter to get BMW a Formula One team - the only reason they don't have one is that no-one has kickstarted it for them

 

[Kaltern]

I think there's a lot of people fundamentally misunderstanding what kickstarter does.

Anyway, I'm off to start a Kickstarter to get BMW a Formula One team - the only reason they don't have one is that no-one has kickstarted it for them

I'll pledge £100. I assume the pledge reward will be a free BMW of my choice?

 

[NecoMachina]

So...let's Kickstart a game, and then when the developers take waaaay too long between updates and we're starved for content, let's do more kickstarters? Ya, that seems like a BRILLIANT plan and is in NO WAY a terrible precedent for the games industry which already has too many manipulative anti-consumer business models these days. [rolleyes]

 

[Dale Emasiri]

I'm not really sure where this idea of "let's kickstart something to get it implemented" came around, I agree with Noctover that this is a precedent that needs to be put to rest somewhat.

Kickstarter is a great way to get projects funded that would otherwise not be, and gets things off the ground for a lot of burgeoning studios or independent creative teams. There's a lot of good that it brings, and it can be the make or break of that "next big thing." It's a crowdfunding platform. While it's an important factor, you have to understand that monetary cost is not always the only reason that stops something being present in the game right now. It could be balancing, technical limitations, lack of meaningful gameplay for that feature, or the value that it adds to the game is too little versus the work required to implement it... so priority is a lot lower than, say, the core improvements or 2.4 or whatever the future holds. It could also simply be that it's planned and being developed, you just kinda have to wait a little bit for it. Many reasons beyond simply funding, which is about all that Kickstarter can solve.

 

[Vasco Sapien]

I'm not really sure where this idea of "let's kickstart something to get it implemented" came around, I agree with Noctover that this is a precedent that needs to be put to rest somewhat.

Kickstarter is a great way to get projects funded that would otherwise not be, and gets things off the ground for a lot of burgeoning studios or independent creative teams. There's a lot of good that it brings, and it can be the make or break of that "next big thing." It's a crowdfunding platform. While it's an important factor, you have to understand that monetary cost is not always the only reason that stops something being present in the game right now. It could be balancing, technical limitations, lack of meaningful gameplay for that feature, or the value that it adds to the game is too little versus the work required to implement it... so priority is a lot lower than, say, the core improvements or 2.4 or whatever the future holds. It could also simply be that it's planned and being developed, you just kinda have to wait a little bit for it. Many reasons beyond simply funding, which is about all that Kickstarter can solve.

Hopefully this post will now finally put to bed these kickstarter threads.

 

[Jenner]

I'm not really sure where this idea of "let's kickstart something to get it implemented" came around, I agree with Noctover that this is a precedent that needs to be put to rest somewhat.

Kickstarter is a great way to get projects funded that would otherwise not be, and gets things off the ground for a lot of burgeoning studios or independent creative teams. There's a lot of good that it brings, and it can be the make or break of that "next big thing." It's a crowdfunding platform. While it's an important factor, you have to understand that monetary cost is not always the only reason that stops something being present in the game right now. It could be balancing, technical limitations, lack of meaningful gameplay for that feature, or the value that it adds to the game is too little versus the work required to implement it... so priority is a lot lower than, say, the core improvements or 2.4 or whatever the future holds. It could also simply be that it's planned and being developed, you just kinda have to wait a little bit for it. Many reasons beyond simply funding, which is about all that Kickstarter can solve.

Well said.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I'm not really sure where this idea of "let's kickstart something to get it implemented" came around, I agree with Noctover that this is a precedent that needs to be put to rest somewhat.

Kickstarter is a great way to get projects funded that would otherwise not be, and gets things off the ground for a lot of burgeoning studios or independent creative teams. There's a lot of good that it brings, and it can be the make or break of that "next big thing." It's a crowdfunding platform. While it's an important factor, you have to understand that monetary cost is not always the only reason that stops something being present in the game right now. It could be balancing, technical limitations, lack of meaningful gameplay for that feature, or the value that it adds to the game is too little versus the work required to implement it... so priority is a lot lower than, say, the core improvements or 2.4 or whatever the future holds. It could also simply be that it's planned and being developed, you just kinda have to wait a little bit for it. Many reasons beyond simply funding, which is about all that Kickstarter can solve.

Dale, all this is good explanation why money isn't a problem. But I think this also shows that people really don't buy dev arguments about 'adds too little to the game'. Devs tends to think in game play loops, however lot of gamers these days tend to think in emergent gameplay loops - things that is just there and that just allows stuff to happen. For example walking around - while many people will say that walking around in space ships is no use, I would argue that quite a lot considering how popular is VR and how people say they would want to walk around there. And also it is very important to understand that such game as ED which encourages role playing at it's essence there's no really features that gives you freedom of movement AND are useless - they just improves that emergent factor, that role play factor, which has HUGE staying power over the game.

I guess that's why many people suggest Kickstarter - as way to convince devs that people really, *really* want that particular feature and that it might be that there's something players wants that devs might have to take a second look at. It does not mean players are right or wrong, just means people badly want to *convince* you, FD, that it is worth the money and time.

 

[Jenner]

Dale, all this is good explanation why money isn't a problem. But I think this also shows that people really don't buy dev arguments about 'adds too little to the game'. Devs tends to think in game play loops, however lot of gamers these days tend to think in emergent gameplay loops - things that is just there and that just allows stuff to happen. For example walking around - while many people will say that walking around in space ships is no use, I would argue that quite a lot considering how popular is VR and how people say they would want to walk around there. And also it is very important to understand that such game as ED which encourages role playing at it's essence there's no really features that gives you freedom of movement AND are useless - they just improves that emergent factor, that role play factor, which has HUGE staying power over the game.

I guess that's why many people suggest Kickstarter - as way to convince devs that people really, *really* want that particular feature and that it might be that there's something players wants that devs might have to take a second look at. It does not mean players are right or wrong, just means people badly want to *convince* you, FD, that it is worth the money and time.

I'm sure that the devs would love to see some of the oft-cited 'big' additions to the game, but there's a lot to consider before any commitment of resources. Just judging from the conversation here on the forum there is provable demand for such additions, but that doesn't make them any easier to implement. They need to think about how any such effort would compliment what's already there, if it would break anything that's already there, and (let's be real) how many new customers it would bring in.

I'm with you on the walking around bit, but I know I know that the headwinds against it are pretty high on account of all the above. Adding ships is probably a lot more believable, but even that effort has to undergo a cost/benefit analysis.

 

[EdzUp]

I think the problem is the ships should have been added it's a question that arose as someone was asked about space legs. Personally I would like to see all of the original ships in the game after all we still see old cars hundred or so years later why not old ships?

 

[Ian Skippy]

I see on the forum a rather long post about Kickstarting space legs, this got me wondering would anyone kickstart ALL the 'original Elite ships' so they could be added into Elite Dangerous?

For me this seems to be a more realistic idea and one thing that could be implemented much easier than space legs

Thoughts?

No. No to all KS ideas for adding stuff to ED. I want FD to come up with a coherent plan for the forseeable future, that is based on their understanding on what can be done and how that can be done. I dont want them to change their plans on an ad-hoc basis because people keep starting kickstarters.

I think the problem is the ships should have been added it's a question that arose as someone was asked about space legs. Personally I would like to see all of the original ships in the game after all we still see old cars hundred or so years later why not old ships?

Many ships are old in ED. Heck, the Eagle is officially completely taken out of formal production as it has been superseded by the F63 and Imp fighter. You can still fly it, and with engineers you can even make it somewhat useful.

 

[Drelthar]

No, already paid for the game. Already paid for a "lifetime pass."

And still get charged for basic colour changes on a texture, on a full price game, with paid expansions.

Stop being weird.

 

[NecoMachina]

Dale, all this is good explanation why money isn't a problem. But I think this also shows that people really don't buy dev arguments about 'adds too little to the game'. Devs tends to think in game play loops, however lot of gamers these days tend to think in emergent gameplay loops - things that is just there and that just allows stuff to happen. For example walking around - while many people will say that walking around in space ships is no use, I would argue that quite a lot considering how popular is VR and how people say they would want to walk around there. And also it is very important to understand that such game as ED which encourages role playing at it's essence there's no really features that gives you freedom of movement AND are useless - they just improves that emergent factor, that role play factor, which has HUGE staying power over the game.

I guess that's why many people suggest Kickstarter - as way to convince devs that people really, *really* want that particular feature and that it might be that there's something players wants that devs might have to take a second look at. It does not mean players are right or wrong, just means people badly want to *convince* you, FD, that it is worth the money and time.

I want spacelegs too. I REALLY would love to walk around my ships and in stations in VR. That being said, I want it to be done right. If all we get to do is just walk around, and can't interact with anything, then we have more of the same sort of problem that is already plaguing this game - another feature with no depth to it.

Starting a Kickstarter and throwing money at it is a very over-simplified concept. Nobody is saying spacelegs won't happen. But core game improvements need to happen first. And then the technical considerations, gameplay considerations, etc need to be thought out. As much as I criticize FDEV for the way they go about things sometimes, I do think they are VERY aware of how much people want spacelegs. But realistically speaking, a kickstarter is not going to somehow magically make that happen any sooner.

 

[CMDR Pugwash]

Space legs are the real Hotel California.

 

[Kerrash]

Sounds like you want a poll to judge interest...

*runs and hides*

 

[Frank]

Hopefully this post will now finally put to bed these kickstarter threads.

The only real way to be sure that we can stop all these Kickstarter threads is by spending money to ensure we can stay on top of the problem.

...so I propose a Kickstarter to stop new Kickstarter threads.

 

[Imo]

Yes! I would support that! If the classic Elite ships would still look like I have them in mind. The Cobra Mk III and the ASP Explorer in ED are good examples how a nice retro design can look like. I would NOT support this if the well known Elite spaceships would look like Nasa Space Shuttles (Adder, Hauler, Fer-de-Lance...). For some of them it's already too late so we are probably riding a dead horse. The best re-design of a classic ship that looks totally different today is the Python. Love it.