F2P Failure and Elite Dangerous

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Could you reference where they mention "cash for credits" in the kickstarter for me please?
Or any other reference from Frontier of additional revenue streams for that matter ?

Currently DDF has ongoing MT discussion. During KS FD said they would sell credits for real money, due of otherwise gold farmers destroying game, and of course as money they can use then to add stuff for free, they didn't explained it in detail though. They have said that huge updates will be expansions which will expand game play. But other new stuff like new ships will be available to everyone buying a game.

I genuinely cant see why some people are just assuming that we are going to have to pay extra on top of the games purchase price like as if it's a given, Its not.

But no one ever said that you will have to pay anything. Mostly discussion goes around how FD can keep ED universe up to date without going in red. Sales from game is one thing, expansions other, but they could be not sustainable at some point.

 

[Riandor]

So no please, no micro transactions, cash for credits or subs

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I believe the DDF are privy to information not ready for the public domain on this, but this argument has raged already within the microtransactions thread...

And Frontier have already asked what we would be willing to pay for cosmetic MT's in the Private backer's forum. So get used to it, this game WILL have something of that nature.

I am not going to argue for or against anything here, I gave my opinions already.

@Barns - Elite universe in David Braben's eyes is about more than just your spaceship. Too many people get hung up on the fact that this is a game just about a ship and some trading and some upgrades.

No, that is what was possible at the time and it is at the very heart of the game for sure, but there will be more to it. I do not expect a full on Battlefield/COD/DUST whatever battle... but ship boarding and hunting is planned and as such constitutes a form of FPS (or 3rd person TBD I guess).

Think Star Trek away parties more than Star Wars clone wars.

Clearly it will also be avoidable for those not interested, but once EVA exists you have to have more than just "man walks into bar."

Similarly with Planetary Landings. What is the point if you can't do anything? But as you said, that's OT and debated ad infinitum elsewhere.

 

[OillyRag]

Currently DDF has ongoing MT discussion. During KS FD said they would sell credits for real money,

Frontier have already asked what we would be willing to pay for cosmetic MT's in the Private backer's forum. So get used to it, this game WILL have something of that nature.

Cant help feeling a bit disappointed


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[KING5TON]

Cant help feeling a bit disappointed


.

Why though?
If you want the cosmetic upgrades you can buy them and fund the game.
If you don't want the cosmetic upgrades you don't buy them.

Shutting off the entire game or none cosmetic parts of the game behind a paywall that you have to constantly pay money over and over to access is IMO far worse that allowing people to pay real money to make their spaceship pink and have a DB bobblehead on their dash if they want to.

 

[OillyRag]

Why though?
If you want the cosmetic upgrades you can buy them and fund the game.
If you don't want the cosmetic upgrades you don't buy them.

I just hope getting to elite will be based on the skill level of the player rather than his bank balance ..

that would be just sad.

 

[noodle]

Cant help feeling a bit disappointed

Indeed. On that basis, I'll probably be playing in single player mode.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I just hope getting to elite will be based on the skill level of the player rather than his bank balance ..

that would be just sad.

But it will be based on skill level. Currently only cosmetics are more or less confirmed and I really have no problems with good cosmetics in game. There however were lot of suggestions to do them right - to make equal cosmetics available for people unlocking them in missions, etc.

 

[KING5TON]

I just hope getting to elite will be based on the skill level of the player rather than his bank balance ..

that would be just sad.

I think that getting Elite rank will always be based on skill/time played.

Even going down the cash for credits route (which isn't the same as cash for cosmetics) all that players that pay for credits are getting is removing grinding for credits/playing the game. If people want to pay to sidestep the gameplay required to create funds then that's up to them really and shouldn't affect your enjoyment of the game.

It also helps people who want to play the game and enjoy what it has to offer but don't have the time to do a load of trade runs or whatever to be able to upgrade their ship etc..

I personally won't buy credits and probably won't buy cosmetic stuff and will just play the game. I don't see why other people shouldn't though if they want to. What I won't do though is pay a monthly subscription to play the game. I'd probably try and flog my account to try and recoup the cost of my pledge if it suddenly turns out to be the case.

p.s. as we've seen in other games if you don't offer a cash for credits system and your game is really popular (like WOW) then all that will happen is that there will be a black market for credits. I'd personally prefer that money to go to FD.

 

[Ixnatifual]

But it will be based on skill level. Currently only cosmetics are more or less confirmed and I really have no problems with good cosmetics in game. There however were lot of suggestions to do them right - to make equal cosmetics available for people unlocking them in missions, etc.

I agree with this. No problem with cosmetic-only cash store. Especially if there are also in-game ways to work towards the same items.

 

[noodle]

If people want to pay to sidestep the gameplay required to create funds then that's up to them really and shouldn't affect your enjoyment of the game.

I think you're on shaky ground when you say what "should" or "shouldn't" affect someone's enjoyment. It either does or it doesn't. There's no "should" or "shouldn't" about it. The factors that affect one person's enjoyment will be different from the factors that affect another person's enjoyment.

Historically, the psychology of computer games has largely been built on escapism and fantasy. The progress of your character or ship or whatever is measured solely against the game. Nothing apart from your interaction with the game prevents you from rising to the top, being the best, standing above the crowd. This changes in multiplayer, where you are also measuring your success against other players. There is still a level of escapism involved, because everyone is on a level playing field. Throw micro-transactions into the equation though, and the sense of escapism is further diminished by the fact that your level of success is now partially dependent upon your real-world wealth. To some, this isn't an issue and they can ignore it, but I think it's perfectly understandable if for others it affects their enjoyment of the game.

 

[OillyRag]

Even going down the cash for credits route (which isn't the same as cash for cosmetics) all that players that pay for credits are getting is removing grinding for credits/playing the game. If people want to pay to sidestep the gameplay required to create funds then that's up to them really and shouldn't affect your enjoyment of the game.

It also helps people who want to play the game and enjoy what it has to offer but don't have the time to do a load of trade runs or whatever to be able to upgrade their ship etc..

This is the same game mechanic that is being so heavily slated in the new dungeon keeper game by EA ... you buy gems in order to speed up the time it takes to dig a dungeon. EA have set it up so that some dungeons purportedly take 24hrs of game time to complete.

It's a very clever and also very cynical way to make the player part with his money, if your hooked into the game and don't have the time why not buy that short cut.
The problem is it's not a short cut at all it's just EA stalling the game and making you pay to continue.

Im not saying that's what will happen in Elite, all i'm saying is if you start to go down the short cut route that is the destination.

there are a lot of down sides to introducing ongoing revenue streams into the game, and please dont be fooled into thinking it wont effect gameplay in one way or another because it definitely will and not in a good way in my opinion.

 

[nats]

IMO subscriptions will kill this game.

I wouldnt play Elite Dangerous if subscriptions became payable. I dont like paying for games like that and I have never paid a subscription for a game in my life. And in game purchases may be quoted as being big business but I have never paid for any and neither has anyone I know, to my knowledge.

But now that I know how much money there is in it (supposedly) I might just have to write a stupid game for Android and become a millionaire after one day.

Certainly, judging from Star Citizen, there are a hell of a lot of idiots around who have money just burning a hole in their pocket.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

there are a lot of down sides to introducing ongoing revenue streams into the game, and please dont be fooled into thinking it wont effect gameplay in one way or another because it definitely will and not in a good way in my opinion.

I personally think this is a little hyperbole to say that. I admit I don't like MT, I have however bought cheap cosmetics, but that's about it. However I also admit that people just copy/paste their emotions and experiences from bad MT implementations to other games, overstating importance of MT. I play few MMOs, and both of them have MT, and I haven't felt any pressure to buy anything from their shop - and those in fact are F2P titles.

If done right, MT shop can be really nice add on for those playing ED online. Seeing how cautious FD is to discuss this they really care about reaction to this, so I expect if MT ever takes place in ED, it will be very well integrated from game play perspective.

Also I would like to point out that in ED it won't matter how much money you got, but what's your skills are.

 

[Pyros]

I wouldnt play Elite Dangerous if subscriptions became payable. I dont like paying for games like that and I have never paid a subscription for a game in my life. And in game purchases may be quoted as being big business but I have never paid for any and neither has anyone I know, to my knowledge.

But now that I know how much money there is in it (supposedly) I might just have to write a stupid game for Android and become a millionaire after one day.

Certainly, judging from Star Citizen, there are a hell of a lot of idiots around who have money just burning a hole in their pocket.

Gaming is actually a rather cheap occupation compared to other forms of entertainment. And companies are always out to find ways to capture some of your income.

Anyway, ED offline mode shouldn't have any subscription or regular outlay. But the online service need to be maintained, either through game sales, ingame or ancillary transactions (cash for credits; vanity (cosmetic) items; progression bonus; ingame assets;...), regular subscriptions or ingame advertising revenues. Or a combination of them all.

The best solution also depends on the cost levels we are talking about - they should be rather smaller than a traditional MMO, but how high they are I really don't know.

Also take into consideration that even in the "pay to progress" category, there are plenty ways of deploying it that lead to different impacts (e.g. - it is different to have a significant advantage that is only available through IRL payments than a bonus that is not all that difficult to obtain through normal gameplay).

 

[Razorwire]

Why though?
If you want the cosmetic upgrades you can buy them and fund the game.
If you don't want the cosmetic upgrades you don't buy them...

I expect there to be cosmetic options available for in-game credits as well.

MWO handles this (kinda, see below) by allowing certain colours and patterns for in-game money and charging for the others. The premium colours tend to be nicer/cooler (like jet black), where the free and in-game money ones are more subdued (the free black is more like a dark charcoal grey).

MWO has the balance wrong though, imo. The premium colours and patterns are too expensive (How is £16 for three colours with a cool pattern a microtransaction?), and there are too few in-game money options (out of a couple hundred colours, only about 8 are in-game money, with another handful free via promotions).

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

If people want to pay to sidestep the gameplay required to create funds then that's up to them really and shouldn't affect your enjoyment of the game.
.

This would be a disaster imo, simply becasue that is a slippery slope.

1) a well balanced game does not need to have GRIND. IF playing the game is a grind then imo either the game is not balanced properly, or it is simply not that good a game/not your type of game.

That being said, imo MT's (and for the achievement hunters achievements) have a lot to answer for for the creation of grind.

as soon as you can pay to progress then the temptation is there to stretch progress levels, so that what would not have been a grind historically is suddenly made a grind to "encourage" you to buy creds.

The F2P mobile dungeon keeper is a good example of this,
hell, even War Thunder, which wasnt a grind day 1 has suddenly taken on much of this stuff - but that is F2P and NOT anywhere near as bad as dungeon keeper so a little more forgiving there.

The lack of buying ships etc with real cash is the main reason why i am way more excited about ED than SC. Even though i COULD start the game with a cobra and 4K (which is probably not even that big a boost) I am not planning too.

indeed, if there are skins/cosmetics I am hoping for one, a medal to put on my ship, along the lines of "backer who started at the start with the rest of the group"

*I said in another thread summat like I backed ED and all i got was this lousy T shirt* type decal for if you choose to start with a sidewinder and 100 creds

2) If all of a sudden day 1 people could buy a bunch of creds and start with an anaconda fully decked out / or even worse, then that would ruin it for me, and force me into offline as it would be potentially way unbalanced.

That all being said, I am still fairly confident it WONT go that way.

 

[Crayfish]

This is the same game mechanic that is being so heavily slated in the new dungeon keeper game by EA ... you buy gems in order to speed up the time it takes to dig a dungeon. EA have set it up so that some dungeons purportedly take 24hrs of game time to complete.

Not really the same thing. In DK you have to buy cash if you want to avoid long periods of dead time waiting for events. With a cash purchase system in Elite you would be skipping active gameplay time. Players without cash to spare to buy credits can still have an enjoyable game to play.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

1) a well balanced game does not need to have GRIND. IF playing the game is a grind then imo either the game is not balanced properly, or it is simply not that good a game/not your type of game.

Problem is most of open world space sims are GRIND GRIND GRIND. It is not obvious though, and FD during last year has worked hard together with DDF so it doesn't appear to be repetitive (that's what all PU elements in ED are for). But overall, if your game is quick shot, maybe ED and Elite games particular is not what you are looking for.

 

[OillyRag]

I personally think this is a little hyperbole to say that.

You maybe right but it wasn't done consciously, i just feel quite strongly about this.

Also I would like to point out that in ED it won't matter how much money you got, but what's your skills are.

Well like i said in a previous post, i hope so.

 

[KING5TON]

I still think subscriptions are the worst option of all the funding model options.
IMO it will kill the game faster than any others.

If FD rely on subscriptions and it turns most people off and there is only a hardcore few that are paying it isn't going to be enough to keep the lights on.

IF FD need a constant inflow of cash then in order of preference I personally would prefer
1 - In game advertising.
2 - Cash for cosmetics.
3- Cash for credits.

Also many other games seem to be able to provide MP servers many years after launch without additional revenue streams. What makes E: D different?

p.s. They're only supplying one Meta server aren't they since the rest of MP is P2P? How much to run one server? Can't be that much.