The trick will be to make it functional without it becoming effectively a money transfer system in itself.
FAO Frontier: Increase trading dividends or introduce in game money transfer
- Thread starter rootsrat
- Start date
That shouldn't be a problem, when only earnings are divided.
Of course a few hundred thousand credits (66% share on a trade-Conda-wing of 4) can be a lot for a starter, but I think its better than dropping 20x20 canisters of palladium.
This would do wonders for emergent gameplay, and would actually make it so that it makes sense to hire fighters to stick with you. It is supposed to be a dangerous galaxy, and if a pirate interdicts your ship, it should be a massive event rather than just a simple 'jump to another system' routine.
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This was my first thought, +1 rep for you.
An adjustable percentage for wings is the best way to handle this I feel. Leaves for negotiation, makes wings worth it for all parties involved, didn't break anything.
You could always abandon a few tons of cargo for him. That's a little roundabout but it's still something.
I'd like to see the voucher increased to 10% but it would make trading in a wing too strong. Maybe they could increase it for non traders, idk how that would work tho.
A credit transfer system would be nice, and that would make piracy very interesting. I doubt it will ever be implemented, seems too prone to abuse.
I'd like to see the voucher increased to 10% but it would make trading in a wing too strong. Maybe they could increase it for non traders, idk how that would work tho.
A credit transfer system would be nice, and that would make piracy very interesting. I doubt it will ever be implemented, seems too prone to abuse.
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+1.
I am against money transfer, as it would create more issues (gold farming as a matter of example) than it would actually solve. On the other hand letting players decide how they want to share a profit for a mutual effort seems about right.
This definitely needs to be fixed because as the game stands now the 5% payoff to the mercenary is a joke. It'd be a great boost to the game to have more wings flying around and people working together to do things. Unfortunately its faster and easier to do trading solo. OFC the money transfer issue has lots of problems that come with it, and the easiest fix would be an adjustable scale that players can agree upon when forming the wing.
rootsrat
Volunteer Moderator
Exactly! Give us the reasons to cooperate on more levels than "Let's mindlessly grind together in yet another CZ/CG/PP event yawn". Give us in game tools to support the cooperation with the ability to reward one another in an easy way. Give us the tools to blaze our own trail and create our own content.
I'd happily welcome a new system of money tranfer or dividend share and some other stuff to encourage creative and cooperative game play and own adventures instead of the Powerplay grind-ish metagame (personal and subjective opinion, please do not turn this thread into PP discussion, we already have more than enough of those, thanks).
And to further address Anuranium's post: there could be a max limit of how much money you can transfer in one go for example. I'd prefer to select "Transfer 100k" 10 times over "buy a 1 mil worth of Palladium and eject that in batches of 10 (because any more than that makes them impossible to collect at once even with the drones)" system that we are forced to use now.
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Thanks for contributing to the discussion and keeping it polite and constructive guys! Much appreciated.
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+Rep for this
Exactly! Give us the reasons to cooperate on more levels than "Let's mindlessly grind together in yet another CZ/CG/PP event yawn". Give us in game tools to support the cooperation with the ability to reward one another in an easy way. Give us the tools to blaze our own trail and create our own content.
I'd happily welcome a new system of money tranfer or dividend share and some other stuff to encourage creative and cooperative game play and own adventures instead of the Powerplay grind-ish metagame (personal and subjective opinion, please do not turn this thread into PP discussion, we already have more than enough of those, thanks).
And to further address Anuranium's post: there could be a max limit of how much money you can transfer in one go for example. I'd prefer to select "Transfer 100k" 10 times over "buy a 1 mil worth of Palladium and eject that in batches of 10 (because any more than that makes them impossible to collect at once even with the drones)" system that we are forced to use now.
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Well - What happened to the multiplayer games that offered money transfer? They have some farmers, they have some cheaters, they have lots of happy players / satisfied customers.
I love the Idea of being able to trade between players. I deposited that whish on the common suggestions thread already back in January. Back then It was more meant to let the poor economic background simulation be replaced or strengthened by a player based economy. Today I know that it's nearly impossible to calculate a better economy in realtime and do no longer dream about a player driven or influenced economy. But still I think there wouldn't be a problem in players "sharing their wealth".
What happens if a noob asks for a million credits and gets it? He'll buy a ship and sooner or later he'll lose it, if he doesn't know how to play. Ok, but does this hurt you and me?
No. It doesn't. When two friends help each other to reach a goal, by lending some money or putting it together, what's the problem? None.
Maybe - you know - one thing leads to another - the problem is the upcoming demand for more: we can exchange money, why can't we exchange ships and modules, where do we have storage to put all that things, etc.
But will it? Maybe, maybe not.
I think it would be a great deal. A good idea. But that seems to be to far away from the way it is now.
Being able to divide the wing share individually would be closer to the current system and be less disturbing for many people who fear about their purse
PS: after reading it over more "stupid ideas" about money transfer came across my mind:
player/player smuggling outside of a station. Somehow like the seeking weapons / seeking luxuries T9, there could be a player offering highly demanded rare illegal goods (e.g. combat weapons, etc.) for high prices. He wouldn't have to dock his large ship on a station, where his T9 would be scanned or wouldn't need to fly his "tiny" Python to land on an outpost.
Traderoutes could be shortened by a player sitting in the middle as a trading post
There could be a black-market auction house,...
Now stop. Brain, I said stop thinking of such things! Stop!
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Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Abandoning cargo is a cumbersome way of transferring credits - it does work though.
Leaving the existing 5% trading dividends alone, allowing the players in a Wing to decide how much of their profit to put into the pot and also the distribution of the pot would be a zero sum addition, for example:
Player 1: contribution 25% of 1.2M Cr., share 0%; principal trader;
Player 2: contribution 0% of 0 Cr., share 33%; armed escort #1;
Player 3: contribution 0% of 0 Cr., share 33%; armed escort #2;
Player 4: contribution 0% of 0 Cr., share 33%; armed escort #3;
Player contribution pot: 300k Cr.
Player wing dividend: 100k Cr for players #2, #3 and #4.
As to player-to-player credit transfers - to avoid extortion of empty ships, I would hope that, if ever introduced (and I hope that they would not be), they would be restricted to in-station only.
I'm still of the mind that a straightforward credit transfer is the way to go. I could care less if people sell credits... it wouldn't affect me or anyone else for that matter in the least. If someone wants to play that way fine by me. I would like the freedom to loan a friend 50mil credits or pay someone whatever I choose for a service. I personally wouldn't purchase credits but the current wealth transfer method of abandoning 20 containers at a time is simply tedious.
So imagine this situation:
Trader ship A, owned by a gold-seller, dumps his cargo of Palladium, which trader ship B, also owned by a gold seller (possibly the same one with two accounts), scoops with cargo drones. Then player ship C, the buyer, wings-up with trader ship B to make the sale.
Trader ship B spent nothing on the goods, so his earnings are 100%, and he passes those profits straight on to his buyer.
So he pirated the cargo on ship A? Or what's the difference to now (ok, now the "buyer" would scoop the cargo), but the Gold-Seller needs two ships, so what's the point?
And: If I wanted to buy "gold", the sum wouldn't fit in 50 T-9 Cargo holds. Why would someone bother to buy 200 Mio Cr.? But OK - I have no plan on MMO-Gold buying. Never wanted or needed that, because I play the games for fun.
That's a valid concern and I did think of it. Just allot a maximum percentage for distribution. Would I give you more than half my profits? Heck no! FD could find a good balance that would be more than reasonable and allow changing of the numbers up to a certain extent. That should at the very least make it more difficult.
While I see the damage that can be caused by good sellers, I wonder how much we actually have to worry about it.
rootsrat
Volunteer Moderator
This. So a guy buys some gold from a seller. What's the worst impact to your game? At the moment - they could pay for progress in PP. I can't remember what the mechanic was, but I'm pretty sure you can spend money at a Power to speed up your progress or something like that.
Does it impact your game? If you get involved in PP then maybe a little. If someone uses cheap tricks like that however you can be pretty sure they do it for gains, and after getting this Power's special weapon or shield they'll probably move on to another Power and there is a high probability they'll get bored soon anyway. And this is the worst that could happen.
Having so much purchased money, they probably won't participate in CG's (the main reason is money), they won't trade, they could go exploring for the sights (in which case they'll be out there for ages), eventually they'll get bored and either quit or start using cheats to get more excitement out of the game, then get caught and shadowbanned.
All in all not much of an impact on YOUR game really.
Should we reject a functionality, because 1% of players may (or may not!) abuse it, while for the remaining 99% it will drastically improve the game, both functionally and socially? That never should be a reason for complete rejection. Instead the functionality should be designed in a way to minimise opportunities and easiness of abusing the system.
There were many good suggestions in this thread, which can serve as a base idea for the Frontier to adjust it to their liking or create a completely new system. But something needs to be done about this, that's for sure.
Honestly I wish they'd just let us transfer money (I know the devs are afraid of RMT guys, but seriously they don't really affect me, and if you stop them selling credits they'll just sell accounts so it doesn't do a whole lot anyways), since I have about 5 times as much money in the game as my best friend and I'd like to just give them some so we were on a more even footing...
But that said, even if they do implement that, and I really hope they do... I'd still like to see them implement a "contract" system where you could hire other players for a job with a fixed payout, or a percentage of your take for things like hiring escorts while mining or trading.
I would totally put my friend on a contract that gave them 50% of my trading profits for escorting me... The little 5% dividend they get is just too small. It would make sense if you could have massive wings with like 10 traders and 20 escorts... 5% of 10 trades would be pretty good... but with the 4 man wing limit it's pretty poor. Especially since you'd ideally want 1 trader with 3 escorts, or a 2:2 ratio in a 4 man group. That leaves the escorts not making much.
But that said, even if they do implement that, and I really hope they do... I'd still like to see them implement a "contract" system where you could hire other players for a job with a fixed payout, or a percentage of your take for things like hiring escorts while mining or trading.
I would totally put my friend on a contract that gave them 50% of my trading profits for escorting me... The little 5% dividend they get is just too small. It would make sense if you could have massive wings with like 10 traders and 20 escorts... 5% of 10 trades would be pretty good... but with the 4 man wing limit it's pretty poor. Especially since you'd ideally want 1 trader with 3 escorts, or a 2:2 ratio in a 4 man group. That leaves the escorts not making much.
Hell yeah!
We, players, should need to see good sides of an idea rather than bad sides. Why? Because there always will be a bad side of an idea. Money transfer? Goldsellers will come in and make their job. Increasing dividends? will make the full-trade wings overpowered in terms of profits.
I think that devellopers always look at one thing. Did that idea will impact our game more in a good way than in a bad way? and that's we should think here. Those ideas in this thread are all nice, and will do a lot more benefits than anything else. That will push players to play with (or against if you're a bloody pirate!) each other, and THAT is the reason we play a multiplayer game.
It would be finding my account naked because the credits were stolen ? Goldsellers don't farm gold, they steal it from people having poor computer security (mainly, by phishing). The days of manual gold farming or even botting are long gone.
The second consequence is, FD's support would be swamped by restoration requests. Other games do them, it'd be expected. they don't have the manpower to do it, and they don't have the experience to automate the process.
rootsrat
Volunteer Moderator
Well in that case it'd be completely and utterly your fault, not Frontier's or the game mechanics'. A very needed and useful functionality should be scoped out and ditched because you are unable to keep your account secure? Are you serious?
Not my problem, nor FD's.