FC opinion - we got most of what we asked for

[Broken_One]

1) A way to 'load up' and jump to a system with friends
2) 500ly jump range
3) mobile refuel, repair, restock

4) (though at a premium) the potential for a mobile shipyard

--

I see a lot of number going around. I think that many of them are over the top because you cannot effectively buy all the modules or all of the ships due to the space limitations. This makes even more sense when you consider that FC's are not a replacement for space stations.

--

Honestly, though I would like to see the upkeep come down a little, I think that the current numbers are mostly tenable. -- They will not be super mega ships, converting elite to a game played on the galaxy map instead of the cockpit. - They will however be remote controlled outposts that we will have at our disposal.

They will also have other benefits that have yet to be explored. I am interested in how cross platform play will affect the player driven markets.

--
Watching this evolve over time though I think that many of the original concepts were delivered in FC's. Much of the rhetoric right now seems to be more of a political play.

 

[varonica]

1) A way to 'load up' and jump to a system with friends
2) 500ly jump range
3) mobile refuel, repair, restock

4) (though at a premium) the potential for a mobile shipyard

The entire point of the FC, for me, was to take a selection of ships out into the black so I could have dedicated long range jumper, a planetary lander equipped with the best thrusters and OD, maybe a couple of SRV's and SRV and a SLF for canyon running and dedicated miner just in case I got the urge to mine. So no we didn't get everything we wanted, we didn't even get a "personal" fleet carrier because it can't carry my fleet without me spending more money than I have even though I have enough to buy a base FC. The base FC should at least be able to store my ships on board, but no I have a compulsory commodity market that will earn me lots of money 35kly from everywhere.

 

[Broken_One]

The entire point of the FC, for me, was to take a selection of ships out into the black so I could have dedicated long range jumper, a planetary lander equipped with the best thrusters and OD, maybe a couple of SRV's and SRV and a SLF for canyon running and dedicated miner just in case I got the urge to mine. So no we didn't get everything we wanted, we didn't even get a "personal" fleet carrier because it can't carry my fleet without me spending more money than I have even though I have enough to buy a base FC. The base FC should at least be able to store my ships on board, but no I have a compulsory commodity market that will earn me lots of money 35kly from everywhere.

Why cant you do those things? Lets say we want to go 10k ly away

Step 1: Add the ship yard.
Step 2: Transfer your ships
Step 3: Purchase 20K tones to tritium (assuming you have space for that)
OR
Step 3 Alternate: Coordinate with someone who may be in the black for the tritium refuel

From there you SHOULD be able to deactivate the ship yard and other services and fly off 10kly and back again. Though I would bring a mining ship with you to be sure.

--

I am not sure where you got the idea that the FC would be a planetary lander. I dont remember that being a part of the mainstream discussion.

Still are you trying to say that is ALL you wanted and that FC's do not check a number of other boxes off for you?

I think that most people are just generally complaining about it because of a lack of perspective.They are getting caught up in a twitter wave of outrage and lack of information.


You really thought that ALL FC's would be are mobile surface lander for enhanced multi-crew? idk where you got that from ......

 

[Exeider]

Why cant you do those things? Lets say we want to go 10k ly away

Step 1: Add the ship yard.
Step 2: Transfer your ships
Step 3: Purchase 20K tones to tritium (assuming you have space for that)
OR
Step 3 Alternate: Coordinate with someone who may be in the black for the tritium refuel

From there you SHOULD be able to deactivate the ship yard and other services and fly off 10kly and back again. Though I would bring a mining ship with you to be sure.

--

I am not sure where you got the idea that the FC would be a planetary lander. I dont remember that being a part of the mainstream discussion.

Still are you trying to say that is ALL you wanted and that FC's do not check a number of other boxes off for you?

I think that most people are just generally complaining about it because of a lack of perspective.They are getting caught up in a twitter wave of outrage and lack of information.


You really thought that ALL FC's would be are mobile surface lander for enhanced multi-crew? idk where you got that from ......

Hes talking about his variety of ships being ON his carrier. hes talking about wanting to use the carrier to fly out somewhere and use his ships for their respective purposes as he comes across them.

Also it should be noted you cant offline/online services from the management panel, you have to go with in range of a carrier services to turn them on or off.

His hope along with others was to live off their carriers and be self sufficient.

 

[varonica]

Why cant you do those things? Lets say we want to go 10k ly away

Step 1: Add the ship yard.
Step 2: Transfer your ships
Step 3: Purchase 20K tones to tritium (assuming you have space for that)
OR
Step 3 Alternate: Coordinate with someone who may be in the black for the tritium refuel

From there you SHOULD be able to deactivate the ship yard and other services and fly off 10kly and back again. Though I would bring a mining ship with you to be sure.

--

I am not sure where you got the idea that the FC would be a planetary lander. I dont remember that being a part of the mainstream discussion.

Still are you trying to say that is ALL you wanted and that FC's do not check a number of other boxes off for you?

I think that most people are just generally complaining about it because of a lack of perspective.They are getting caught up in a twitter wave of outrage and lack of information.


You really thought that ALL FC's would be are mobile surface lander for enhanced multi-crew? idk where you got that from ......

1) Shipyard adds an enormous increase to the weekly upkeep cost as well as being a strange add on for a fleet carrier, unlike a commodity market which is strange compulsory item for a FC. At a huge cost to add I might also point out. Then there's also the cost of repair, rearm and respawn module which also adds to the weekly upkeep.

2) Yes I would collect my ships.

3) 20k tons Tritium will get me, as you say 10kly and back, I am currintly up to 80kly on my current survey and this is far from the longest trip I have done.

or alternate step 3) Find someone willing to follow me to help refuel? You have been out exploring right? You do realise that apart from the organised trips most explorers are out on their own 30k, 40k, 50kly from the bubble and civilisation.

I am not sure where you got the idea that the FC would be a planetary lander. I dont remember that being a part of the mainstream discussion.

I don't remember writing that either, what I wrote an you obviously didn't read so I will repeat it here was;

take a selection of ships out into the black so I could have dedicated long range jumper, a planetary lander equipped with the best thrusters and OD, maybe a couple of SRV's and SRV and a SLF for canyon running and dedicated miner just in case I got the urge to mine.

So a "selection" of ships each purpose built for a particular task, where you got the idea that I thought the FC was a planetary lander I have no idea, maybe this is why you are having so much trouble understanding why people are objecting so much to the current setup, because you haven't actually understood their posts.

Still are you trying to say that is ALL you wanted and that FC's do not check a number of other boxes off for you?

That's correct, that's the only thing I wanted from a Fleet Carrier, there are no other boxes to tick because there is nothing else I want from a Fleet Carrier except for it to be able to carry my fleet you know, to actually be able to carry my fleet to where I needed it! I don't need commodity market, engineering, module storage, ship purchase and sale, combat bond or UC, although UC would be nice but it's not something I would need, dropping into the bubble or Colonia once a year to sell data is fine. I certainly don't need to sell Codex Data, I sold it once and never bothered again because the amount isn't worth it, I probably have nearly a year worth of codex rewards I have never bothered to collect.

Now I could take a FC out 20kly using the Tritium I can carry, from then on it's just mining, mining, mining because 20kly is nothing to the exploration I and my friends do and I will have to mine the entire time to fuel the FC, and while I am mining I have no chance to explore so I am not actually gathering data, and even then there's no point because up-keep and mainenance just keeps building up and building up, week after week and there's no way I can even get any money for my data let alone top up the balance in my FC. And even if there was with my method of exploration I'm not actually going to accumulate money fast enough to keep up with upkeep.

So no, the actual current implementation of Fleet Carriers gives me nothing I want out of Fleet Carriers. I don't know exactly which group of explorers you have been hanging with, but flying out 10kly and turning right around and flying back is not really my thing.

 

[Broken_One]

Hes talking about his variety of ships being ON his carrier. hes talking about wanting to use the carrier to fly out somewhere and use his ships for their respective purposes as he comes across them.

Also it should be noted you cant offline/online services from the management panel, you have to go with in range of a carrier services to turn them on or off.

His hope along with others was to live off their carriers and be self sufficient.

You can be self sufficient off an anaconda.

-

Also - You dont need a shipyard for self sufficient. If you WANT a shipyard that is cool, I think you should have it.

That being said, recognize that shipyards are a RARE service at stations. Most stations do not have one. Esp outposts or smaller installations. So if you want this most premium service it is not outrageous to think that the cost is also premium.

The way people are talking about it is not calm or rational. It is getting everything you want. EXPECTING (and yes they all talked about upkeep and the chances it would be high, there was even an april fools video) that a premium service will be FREE or CHEEP is irrational in my book.

I agree it should be available.
I agree it could be more affordable, but that is a minor change of values.

What I am trying to put out there is that they are NOT the 'dumpster fire' that some community members are making them out to be. To the contrary they are pretty close to right on.

 

[Broken_One]

1) Shipyard adds an enormous increase to the weekly upkeep cost as well as being a strange add on for a fleet carrier, unlike a commodity market which is strange compulsory item for a FC. At a huge cost to add I might also point out. Then there's also the cost of repair, rearm and respawn module which also adds to the weekly upkeep.

2) Yes I would collect my ships.

3) 20k tons Tritium will get me, as you say 10kly and back, I am currintly up to 80kly on my current survey and this is far from the longest trip I have done.

or alternate step 3) Find someone willing to follow me to help refuel? You have been out exploring right? You do realise that apart from the organised trips most explorers are out on their own 30k, 40k, 50kly from the bubble and civilisation.




I don't remember writing that either, what I wrote an you obviously didn't read so I will repeat it here was;



So a "selection" of ships each purpose built for a particular task, where you got the idea that I thought the FC was a planetary lander I have no idea, maybe this is why you are having so much trouble understanding why people are objecting so much to the current setup, because you haven't actually understood their posts.



That's correct, that's the only thing I wanted from a Fleet Carrier, there are no other boxes to tick because there is nothing else I want from a Fleet Carrier except for it to be able to carry my fleet you know, to actually be able to carry my fleet to where I needed it! I don't need commodity market, engineering, module storage, ship purchase and sale, combat bond or UC, although UC would be nice but it's not something I would need, dropping into the bubble or Colonia once a year to sell data is fine. I certainly don't need to sell Codex Data, I sold it once and never bothered again because the amount isn't worth it, I probably have nearly a year worth of codex rewards I have never bothered to collect.

Now I could take a FC out 20kly using the Tritium I can carry, from then on it's just mining, mining, mining because 20kly is nothing to the exploration I and my friends do and I will have to mine the entire time to fuel the FC, and while I am mining I have no chance to explore so I am not actually gathering data, and even then there's no point because up-keep and mainenance just keeps building up and building up, week after week and there's no way I can even get any money for my data let alone top up the balance in my FC. And even if there was with my method of exploration I'm not actually going to accumulate money fast enough to keep up with upkeep.

So no, the actual current implementation of Fleet Carriers gives me nothing I want out of Fleet Carriers. I don't know exactly which group of explorers you have been hanging with, but flying out 10kly and turning right around and flying back is not really my thing.

1) Shipyard adds an enormous increase to the weekly upkeep cost as well as being a strange add on for a fleet carrier, unlike a commodity market which is strange compulsory item for a FC. At a huge cost to add I might also point out. Then there's also the cost of repair, rearm and respawn module which also adds to the weekly upkeep.

2) Yes I would collect my ships.

3) 20k tons Tritium will get me, as you say 10kly and back, I am currintly up to 80kly on my current survey and this is far from the longest trip I have done.

or alternate step 3) Find someone willing to follow me to help refuel? You have been out exploring right? You do realise that apart from the organised trips most explorers are out on their own 30k, 40k, 50kly from the bubble and civilisation.




I don't remember writing that either, what I wrote an you obviously didn't read so I will repeat it here was;



So a "selection" of ships each purpose built for a particular task, where you got the idea that I thought the FC was a planetary lander I have no idea, maybe this is why you are having so much trouble understanding why people are objecting so much to the current setup, because you haven't actually understood their posts.



That's correct, that's the only thing I wanted from a Fleet Carrier, there are no other boxes to tick because there is nothing else I want from a Fleet Carrier except for it to be able to carry my fleet you know, to actually be able to carry my fleet to where I needed it! I don't need commodity market, engineering, module storage, ship purchase and sale, combat bond or UC, although UC would be nice but it's not something I would need, dropping into the bubble or Colonia once a year to sell data is fine. I certainly don't need to sell Codex Data, I sold it once and never bothered again because the amount isn't worth it, I probably have nearly a year worth of codex rewards I have never bothered to collect.

Now I could take a FC out 20kly using the Tritium I can carry, from then on it's just mining, mining, mining because 20kly is nothing to the exploration I and my friends do and I will have to mine the entire time to fuel the FC, and while I am mining I have no chance to explore so I am not actually gathering data, and even then there's no point because up-keep and mainenance just keeps building up and building up, week after week and there's no way I can even get any money for my data let alone top up the balance in my FC. And even if there was with my method of exploration I'm not actually going to accumulate money fast enough to keep up with upkeep.

So no, the actual current implementation of Fleet Carriers gives me nothing I want out of Fleet Carriers. I don't know exactly which group of explorers you have been hanging with, but flying out 10kly and turning right around and flying back is not really my thing.

I see that you took some of my comments very literally. I was trying to spark your imagination so rather then giving an EXAMPLE of something off the cuff I will say this.

There are many uses for FC's that have yet to be explored.
You may not want one.
That is ok.

That being said I think that they delivered on most of what was asked for over time. At least following some of the social media and community channels.

As far as the refuel I was not talking about someone following you. I was talking about someone parking an FC somewhere convenient to mine Tritium. That way they could offload to passing FC if they wanted. Some people would rather pay credits then spend the time farming.
I understand how difficult this would be but we also have communication outside ED. I would imagine we are going to see issues with INARA after this and the EDMC, but who knows right?
--

--
also
And where did you go 80KLY out? like? furthest system I have seen was like 60 kly out. ---

If you are interested in going the farthest though you will only be able to do that in a fleet carrier.

 

[varonica]

You may not want one.
That is ok.

What the heck are you on about, do you understand nothing I post? I do indeed want one, but the mechanics they have created make it impossible to take one out.

also
And where did you go 80KLY out? like? furthest system I have seen was like 60 kly out. ---

You really don't have any idea do you? You have no undertsanding of exploration at all, and here you are trying tell us how we should be doing things? First I said I am currently at just over 80kly on this trip, second the further you can go is just over 65kly in a straight line from Sol, so if you travel 65kly to get there then you travel 65kly to get back, right? So 130kly. But I've done more than that on a trip because explorers, unlike apparantly some people with limited imagination, don't actually travel in straight lines there and back. The galaxy is 80kly across, radius of say 40kly, the circumference is then 251kly, but that's not all because it's not a circle, you have to double back a lot, many explorers like to follow the edge, so upwards of 400kly to circle the galaxy.

Now kindly stop telling explorers what we need in FC's because you really do have no idea!

 

[Broken_One]

What the heck are you on about, do you understand nothing I post? I do indeed want one, but the mechanics they have created make it impossible to take one out.



You really don't have any idea do you? You have no undertsanding of exploration at all, and here you are trying tell us how we should be doing things? First I said I am currently at just over 80kly on this trip, second the further you can go is just over 65kly in a straight line from Sol, so if you travel 65kly to get there then you travel 65kly to get back, right? So 130kly. But I've done more than that on a trip because explorers, unlike apparantly some people with limited imagination, don't actually travel in straight lines there and back. The galaxy is 80kly across, radius of say 40kly, the circumference is then 251kly, but that's not all because it's not a circle, you have to double back a lot, many explorers like to follow the edge, so upwards of 400kly to circle the galaxy.

Now kindly stop telling explorers what we need in FC's because you really do have no idea!

Um what? are you excluding me from that?

I am not telling you how to do anything. You are the one changing the story up. I remember you lol.

I am not telling 'explorers' anything.

I am telling YOU, if you want to reach systems that are farther then 500 ly away, you will need a carrier.

 

[varonica]

Um what? are you excluding me from that?

I am not telling you how to do anything. You are the one changing the story up. I remember you lol.

I am not telling 'explorers' anything.

I am telling YOU, if you want to reach systems that are farther then 500 ly away, you will need a carrier.

Not changed the story at all, please point out where I have changed the story, you are really getting tiresome. And no you don't remember me, you don't know me. Justify your claims that I am changing the story or retract them.

 

[Leper Messiah]

What I am trying to put out there is that they are NOT the 'dumpster fire' that some community members are making them out to be. To the contrary they are pretty close to right on.

For YOU it's not the dumpster fire, for ME FCs are beyond useless, you're happy(ish) I'm completely unhappy, I'm NOT telling you to not be happy, so stop telling me and others to not be unhappy. mmkay? SOME people are expressing their unhappiness in a less than respectful way, but they are not the majority.

FD have consistantly added (IMO) useless stuff to the game and seeing as the last time FD released something I was really happy with was HORIZONS (Dec 2015) I'm STILL waiting for something I can truly enjoy.

edit, removed stupid confrontational bit...apologies.

 

[J3DI]

As I understand it, the Gnosis ( which is a mega ship owned by a player faction ) has the cartographer facility.
If this IS the case, there's no reason not to add this facility to FC's. This would be a great help to explorers.

An adjustment to the time between jumps would also help everybody.

Unless FC's are to remain possessions of the 1% some diligent tweaking of the numbers ( modules, upkeep, fuel ) is needed.

To sum up, not a lot of changes required.

 

[Broken_One]

For YOU it's not the dumpster fire, for ME FCs are beyond useless, you're happy(ish) I'm completely unhappy, I'm NOT telling you to not be happy, so stop telling me and others to not be unhappy. mmkay? SOME people are expressing their unhappiness in a less than respectful way, but they are not the majority.

FD have consistantly added (IMO) useless stuff to the game and seeing as the last time FD released something I was really happy with was HORIZONS (Dec 2015) I'm STILL waiting for something I can truly enjoy.

edit, removed stupid confrontational bit...apologies.

So you have zero interest in being able to see new systems that were previously out of reach?

I honestly dont believe you when you talk in those extremes. It seems like logo's -- Unfortunately I usually only debate in ethos or pathos because I dont often understand the emotional arguments.

 

[Broken_One]

As I understand it, the Gnosis ( which is a mega ship owned by a player faction ) has the cartographer facility.
If this IS the case, there's no reason not to add this facility to FC's. This would be a great help to explorers.

An adjustment to the time between jumps would also help everybody.

Unless FC's are to remain possessions of the 1% some diligent tweaking of the numbers ( modules, upkeep, fuel ) is needed.

To sum up, not a lot of changes required.

I think the technical issue associated has something to do with BGS. Would make sense. A simple solution is to associate you cartographer with a faction. Idk.

I agree though they could add on cartography. It would resolve a number of issues. I have been swayed on this over the past few days of discussion. --- Still based on the live streams today and yesterday we will probably get some hybrid cartographer but who knows. -- I did hear them say that it was always intended (at least it was a consideration during the design), it just did not make it in to the final product for whatever reason.

The problem with making them too over powered (e.g no upkeep, has all facilities, zero spin up time, flying in to combat zones etc etc,) is that it would turn the game to a grind to FC. -- In order to compete in BGS or various other interactions you would have to have an FC to be competitive. Then all the new players would join the game and feel that grind pressure to the metaphorical 60.

I agree there should be some tweeking, but the base model of what is there has some real potential. And watching the videos over the past 6 months discussing this I think they did a decent job in delivering what was wanted ( Though I work in IT so I know how the development process can go lol......). There are obviously some things that need to be fixed, but people are way overreacting right now.

 

[Leper Messiah]

So you have zero interest in being able to see new systems that were previously out of reach?

I honestly dont believe you when you talk in those extremes. It seems like logo's -- Unfortunately I usually only debate in ethos or pathos because I dont often understand the emotional arguments.

Yup zero interest, just like I have zero interest in jump range (currently exploring in a 22ly Python) etc. Sometimes I just stop where I am and randomly explore the systems around me, not searching for anything in particular, just seeing what's there (often ELWs and WWs).

I couldn't give a rats hairy crack about:

CQC, PP, Engineers, Multicrew.

For me all that was a complete and utter waste of dev time. Others may like those things, I do not. Just like I do not like the way FCs are currently implemented, no "twiiter wave of outrage" I do not like them, so another useless (for me) addition from FD. (hopefully FD will change things as suggested by many people).

 

[J3DI]

I think the technical issue associated has something to do with BGS. Would make sense. A simple solution is to associate you cartographer with a faction. Idk.

I agree though they could add on cartography. It would resolve a number of issues. I have been swayed on this over the past few days of discussion. --- Still based on the live streams today and yesterday we will probably get some hybrid cartographer but who knows. -- I did hear them say that it was always intended (at least it was a consideration during the design), it just did not make it in to the final product for whatever reason.

The problem with making them too over powered (e.g no upkeep, has all facilities, zero spin up time, flying in to combat zones etc etc,) is that it would turn the game to a grind to FC. -- In order to compete in BGS or various other interactions you would have to have an FC to be competitive. Then all the new players would join the game and feel that grind pressure to the metaphorical 60.

I agree there should be some tweeking, but the base model of what is there has some real potential. And watching the videos over the past 6 months discussing this I think they did a decent job in delivering what was wanted ( Though I work in IT so I know how the development process can go lol......). There are obviously some things that need to be fixed, but people are way overreacting right now.

Agree about the overreacting. Certain high profile streamers were declaring them a failure within minutes of buying one.
I certainly wasn't suggesting zero upkeep or zero spin up time and don't think fdev would do that anyway.
As it stands, I'm enjoying my mobile fleet base and will probably buy one when they go live.

 

[Broken_One]

Yup zero interest, just like I have zero interest in jump range (currently exploring in a 22ly Python) etc. Sometimes I just stop where I am and randomly explore the systems around me, not searching for anything in particular, just seeing what's there (often ELWs and WWs).

I couldn't give a rats hairy crack about:

CQC, PP, Engineers, Multicrew.

For me all that was a complete and utter waste of dev time. Others may like those things, I do not. Just like I do not like the way FCs are currently implemented, no "twiiter wave of outrage" I do not like them, so another useless (for me) addition from FD. (hopefully FD will change things as suggested by many people).

Well
Why are you posting here then? I ask out of curiosity.

 

[Leper Messiah]

Well
Why are you posting here then? I ask out of curiosity.

I'm reading all threads about FC, including the positive ones trying to justify them. Got a bit peeved by the "They are getting caught up in a twitter wave of outrage and lack of information" comment, pro FC people are becoming a bit dismissive of peoples concerns. Like it or not theres a range of people who play Elite and many feel that after a dearth of content something finally gets added annnnnnnnd it's not all that good, not only that for many explorers it's completely useless for what they wanted to do. So for a large amount of the player base this is a useless addition to the game. Many argue that yes it's end game content for a select few, if that was FDs plan....why are you surprised people are not happy? I mean as it stands now it's not a fleet carrier, more of a mobile trading station. Who wanted that?