FD should increase size of the team developing ED

Yes, of course. But how many games/projects were Frontier developping when they were +240 in 2013-14, and how many today in 2018-19, when they are developping and supporting ED, PC, JWE, and (unknown title project),and the seed of the team for another new fifth one?

I don't think that ED is abandoned, I think that ambitions clash with the limitations of reality and workforce management priorities (old projects that revenue money vs new projects that don't give money until be sell, so priorized, specially if franchised), and we are at an intermediate point between be doomed XD and the greatness XD
FDev's games in development 2013 & 2014 (240-260 staff): Zoo Tycoon, Coaster Crazy Deluxe, Tales from Deep Space, Elite Dangerous, and Screamride.

FDev's games in development now (380 staff): Elite Dangerous (updates & paid-for expansions), Planet Coaster (updates & DLC), Jurassic World Evolution (updates & likely DLC), and two unknown franchises (one of which being announced late-2018/early-2019)
 
Nope, you are wrong - in fact one very vocal KS backer stated that no one from 'those days' still plays :D

Seriously though, what you are describing is what FD released as part of their kickstarter campaign right - a list of thing they would like to do. Did they every state categorically that all those features would be in the game at release? I did a lot of large procurement activities when I was in the military (as in being part of Project Teams buying fleets of aircraft, talking Billions here, not Millions). One of the first things I was taught was the difference to a RFQ/RFT stating they shall do an activity and they would like to do an activity - the former can be held as a contractual element the latter can't. Basically too many people thought that the kickstart program was a legally binding entity instead of a request for donations.

If I gave my trust on a kickstarter, I'd expect some truth in the advertisement, you know, trust.
 
I think what Zac meant is that we will get some small taster of premium new content, but not much else.

But it is as good speculation as yours. Fact FD hasn't removed that comment from Zac - they have done that in the past - indicates that *something* is coming this year. I just doubt it is anything big.

"will be getting their hands on premium content as part of their lifetime expansion pass before the end of 2018 and the Beyond series of updates. "

Not a taste or a demo.
 
If I gave my trust on a kickstarter, I'd expect some truth in the advertisement, you know, trust.

No you gave a donation, nothing more. And I do believe that FD gave refunds for those who were umm disappointed that their special little feature wasn't forthcoming in the game - so those that got the refund now have nothing to whine about (but they still do of course). Which is far better than another company who are using KS to fund their game, apparently they have ceased issuing refunds, just flatly refused based on their interpretation that their game isn't released yet so the final product isn't finalised.

If you believe in truth in advertisement then I have this great deal on a bridge in Sydney, I can create a really fancy advertisement for it in about 2 minutes :D
 
I never implied that all 380 are devs. I was correcting a misinformed comment.

True and fair enough. My point was that lots of large numbers (100 devs at some point in time in the past! 380 staff who won't all be involved in development!) are being bandied about, that are not necessarily relevant to any current, Elite-specific, situation :) . That said, I'd suggest that your 'fact check' didn't actually answer the previous question, as I read it. Yes, Frontier's staff have demonstrably expanded, but Rafe's point, which I read as not necessarily the desired or needed vacancies being filled, may also be valid. I can hire all the plumbers I want, but if I need the wiring fixed, I actually need an electrician. ;)
 
Funny. But ....


There are 9 programming vacancies.

There are zero design vacancies.:O
And yet a few - many? - forum posters seem to say there is a lack of design skills as exhibited by what is in Elite Dangerous.

How many games designers does FDev have? Too few or too many?:rolleyes:

Too few I think.
 
Premium DLC, keep it quiet. On the down-low.
Good plan.

I expect that the ideas for the Premium DLC are currently still on the back of the same after-dinner napkin on which 'SpaceLegs' and 'Atmos Landings' were written. Hence 'nothing to announce at this time'. ;)
 
There have been lot of posts and claims that FD doesn't have 100-ish people team working on ED. While it has always contradicted by regular FD claims of having such big team for game, I think I realize now that discussion is not about how big team works on ED. We have what FD says us, and we have some assertments like FD being publicly traded company so they can't lie about that kind of information on regular basis.

However, I think it is not the point people try to make there, it just shows limits of Internet as discussion platform. Most of people claiming this seems to be saying such things:

* Game is not what I wanted it to be / what I expected it to be / I don't enjoy it - well, this easiest and in same time most hardest thing. If you don't like a game like at all at fundamental level, it really does not matter how much people working on it, is it. And while people associate bigger teams with "AAA game development", which most likely means scripted and fully voice acted and cut scenes galore, ED was never meant such game. No directly involved story line for everybody or any such developments, open world - do whatever you can do, and so on and so forth. Open world games are always this contraversional - people either love them or hate them. And sometimes amount of money spent on it matters, and sometimes it matters little. In the end, if you do not enjoy such games fundamentally, ED isn't gonna cut for you;

* Game updates are too sparse and not frequent enough - this is most subjective and in same time most honest opinion we can all give. I personally feel OK-ish with updates, but I definitely wish there was more "content" and more frequently. Some people say it is totally unacceptable, and some are fine with it. I certainly enjoy the game, so for me it is just wish that might get fulfilled some day. But if someone is waiting for new feature or improvement, I understand his unease about tempo of development;

In conclusion I think none of that even means anything about size of the team. We just discuss actual output. And it is quite obvious that most of us would like to have more ED in a year. So that all being said, I think FD really should increase size of team developing ED - because we want more ED updates to be released more frequently. I hope they do. I hope that recent David side note about happening will really leave some impact on how much they can release a year.

Yup, I guess the office tea lady is probably sick of having to design the missions, in-game. FD... Let her retire early with a big bonus from your 500million coffers...
 
No you gave a donation, nothing more. And I do believe that FD gave refunds for those who were umm disappointed that their special little feature wasn't forthcoming in the game - so those that got the refund now have nothing to whine about (but they still do of course). Which is far better than another company who are using KS to fund their game, apparently they have ceased issuing refunds, just flatly refused based on their interpretation that their game isn't released yet so the final product isn't finalised.

If you believe in truth in advertisement then I have this great deal on a bridge in Sydney, I can create a really fancy advertisement for it in about 2 minutes :D

No I don't trust advertisement, that's why I complain.
 

Deleted member 38366

D
There have been lot of posts and claims that FD doesn't have 100-ish people team working on ED. While it has always contradicted by regular FD claims of having such big team for game, I think I realize now that discussion is not about how big team works on ED. We have what FD says us, and we have some assertments like FD being publicly traded company so they can't lie about that kind of information on regular basis.

However, I think it is not the point people try to make there, it just shows limits of Internet as discussion platform. Most of people claiming this seems to be saying such things:

* Game is not what I wanted it to be / what I expected it to be / I don't enjoy it - well, this easiest and in same time most hardest thing. If you don't like a game like at all at fundamental level, it really does not matter how much people working on it, is it. And while people associate bigger teams with "AAA game development", which most likely means scripted and fully voice acted and cut scenes galore, ED was never meant such game. No directly involved story line for everybody or any such developments, open world - do whatever you can do, and so on and so forth. Open world games are always this contraversional - people either love them or hate them. And sometimes amount of money spent on it matters, and sometimes it matters little. In the end, if you do not enjoy such games fundamentally, ED isn't gonna cut for you;

* Game updates are too sparse and not frequent enough - this is most subjective and in same time most honest opinion we can all give. I personally feel OK-ish with updates, but I definitely wish there was more "content" and more frequently. Some people say it is totally unacceptable, and some are fine with it. I certainly enjoy the game, so for me it is just wish that might get fulfilled some day. But if someone is waiting for new feature or improvement, I understand his unease about tempo of development;

In conclusion I think none of that even means anything about size of the team. We just discuss actual output. And it is quite obvious that most of us would like to have more ED in a year. So that all being said, I think FD really should increase size of team developing ED - because we want more ED updates to be released more frequently. I hope they do. I hope that recent David side note about happening will really leave some impact on how much they can release a year.

IMHO alot of folks have made their statements very clear. FDev's actions have been very clear as well and (as feared) produced the expected results - for all to see.

* The game hasn't become in many parts what the Kickstarter/DDF envisioned and promised. In a few cases they realized the original goals but in many others the implementation fell miles short or were quite bizarre.
That naturally lead to consequences, as the title now technically held features - but realistically it didn't. Two poorly implemented features are commonly worse than one properly implemented one.
Depth of Gameplay. 80000LY wide - 1/4inch deep. Minimum Effort. No love or attention to Detail. Wrong direction. Lack of imagination. Obvious "That'll do, now let's hype & monetize it" moments. You know the drill.

* Game updates are too sparse and not frequent enough - This is actually quite objective. Very much so.
3 months and merely a new CopyPasta PewPew Ship, some more PewPew toys, some generic Blue Structures for "The Player Puzzle Minigame race" aka Guardians (they probably went extinct because they puzzled themselves to death), 3 blue-light special "Guardian" SLFs and a few low-grade Engineers for Colonia with time-sink/time-waster/material-waster mechanics baked in.
A few bugfixes very likely on top - a few new bugs guaranteed on top and a boatload of urgent issues guaranteed unaddressed as well. Standard release cycle basically. Again, nothing new.

The reality is in everyone's face. Maintenance mode still applies while FDev invests in other Projects. Minimum effort, minimal keepalive development, max. monetization and miking the stone til it stops bleeding.
It chugs along like a comatose patient connected to tubes and a few machines. Every once in a while, a Doctor checks on it. Every once in a while, the bed gets new sheets and the patient a slightly different dress.
Yes, those are technically "Updates" but that's it.
Fundamentally, we're stagnating. Nothing moving really forward in areas there it really counts & matters, give or take. By now, I sense that not even the few new mechanics tossed at Mining or Exploration in Q4 could do anything about that.

It's all really that simple.
Can't go glacier-paced maintenance mode with a title that was already a full year behind on lack of content and depth without tanking the consequences head-on eventually. Doesn't work, one cannot cheat reality.
Well, we're here and V3.2 looks like yet another Core Game/QOL dud. So much for V3 Beyond - unless they got one hell of a surprise with a huge Q4 to make up for another lost half year.
 
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FDev's games in development 2013 & 2014 (240-260 staff): Zoo Tycoon, Coaster Crazy Deluxe, Tales from Deep Space, Elite Dangerous, and Screamride.

FDev's games in development now (380 staff): Elite Dangerous (updates & paid-for expansions), Planet Coaster (updates & DLC), Jurassic World Evolution (updates & likely DLC), and two unknown franchises (one of which being announced late-2018/early-2019)

Zoo Tycoon, Coaster Crazy Deluxe, Tales from Deep Space and Screamride were all small games. I think probably in 2014 they were working in PC. You really think (I use the word "think" because none can know) that those games needed the same workforce support that ED, PC, JWE or any of the nex two unknown title franchises? And what you have to said about the plan of add 1 or 2 new games, every year from today to the future. It's logical their rate of growth, but not to enhance the development of ED, but Frontier objectives. I think you're assuming too much with the ED workforce level through time, with the few facts we have. Only time will show what option has been prioritized. And in my opinion, as general principle, projects to be released are prioritized against projects released.
 
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There is also the organization, the space in the offices, the capacity and the financial means to manage a large number of employees and many other things without doubt.
 
FDEV's productivity is not even close to AAA MMOs. People said, hey it's not a AAA MMO so there isn't going to be that level of productivity.

Then NMS with a dinky indy team flat out embarrassed FDEV on productivity.

This wouldn't even be a discussion without NMS doing what its doing.

Anyways, off to play other things that are actually doing something interesting.
 
Zoo Tycoon, Coaster Crazy Deluxe, Tales from Deep Space and Screamride were all small games.
Zoo Tycoon, Planet Coaster, and Jurassic World Evolution are all similarly sized games. CCD, TFDS and SR are all smaller.
I think probably in 2014 they were working in PC.
Possibly, but publicly we don't know.
You really think (I use the word "think" because none can know) that those games needed the same workforce support that ED, PC, JWE or any of the nex two unknown title franchises?
I don't think any of FDev's other games require as much development or support as Elite does, which is why it has the largest team internally.
And what you have to said about the plan of add 1 or 2 new games, every year from today to the future. It's logical their rate of growth, but not to enhance the development of ED, but Frontier objectives. I think you're assuming too much with the ED workforce level through time, with the few facts we have. Only time will show what option has been prioritized.
I have no idea why you have these assumptions of my opinions. I provided two lists of games.
 
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