FDev, 2 mission types disabled in 2 days. Procedurally generated content isn't working out for you

[Sentience]

Not even 48 hours passed between these two posts.


https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/411857-Skimmer-Massacre-Mission-Temporary-Removal?p=6476538&viewfull=1#post6476538

Hello Commanders,

As you are likely aware, an issue was recently discovered which allowed players to earn 200/300 million credits per hour by completing Skimmer Massacre Missions. We have removed this mission type while we investigate, and we will update this post as an edit once we have more information.

Thanks.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/412619-The-new-credit-meta-(20M-a-MINUTE)-(Clickbait-but-you-ll-click-it-anyway)?p=6487611&viewfull=1#post6487611

Hi everyone,

Just a quick note to let you know that we will be temporarily removing mining missions from the game, until we're able to implement the next patch and set of hotfixes (I will let you know when the patch is coming as soon as possible).
Thank you for identifying this issue and bringing it to our attention. We have already identified a fix for it, and that will be coming in the next update as mentioned above.

For those interested, the issue is due to the introduction of the new mission reward choices, which is a large scale change that touches on almost all mission templates. Thanks for your patience while these are offline.

The procedurally generated universe is so large and so numerous in its algorithms, mission generation, and parameters for completing certain missions that FDev has basically been reduced to playing Whack-a-mole with bugs.

In the meantime, two mission types out of the already limited list of missions we can do are completely disabled. This is the worst version of damage control I've seen in an MMO like this.

Does FDev have any long term solutions to this problem? Or is this the "norm" now?

 

[CMDR Dumbfries]

The BGS is a waste of time and needs to go. It's obviously the source of the ongoing dysfunction in this game. If it can't be reconciled by now, get rid of it.
In fact, nuke it from orbit just to be sure.

 

[Adhock]

I swear. You rookies get worse with every patch.

You think this is bad? You should have seen 2.1. THAT was unplayable.

The thing with missions is that they're the most obvious source of income.

It's not going to stop anyone with a lick of sense from doing those activities because you can still profit from them.

Skimmer and mining missions don't exist?

Boohoo, I'm still going to load up my mining rig and go pry minerals for flat profit income. My sensors are still operational so it's not like I can't just run around and look for wanted skimmers in random bases or even just go attack the settlements for their prized and valuable data.

And here's what really irritates me. There's always growing pains after a major content launch. People complain they should have been squashed in beta but you were invited to the beta. Is it really Frontier's fault for not squashing this in beta if YOU where the one doing the beta testing? Did you look for these new bugs to report or were you screwing off playing with the new toys instead of actually TESTING?

It's the same thing I tell my real life supervisors when new tech comes out. Trying to high tech something is not always going to work out as issues will pop up and half the time it's not going to work. It takes months to iron out everything to where it can run smoothly and by then they're trying to upgrade to the newest toys already.

So yes. There are long term solutions to the problem. For now though bandaids are going to have to be slapped on. A long term solution is not an easy fix and it can take weeks to figure out how the problem came about and how to fix it without impacting anything else that may be functioning properly.

It may even be that the malfunction is what is allowing the six hundred other lines of code to function right.

In other words. Yes. This has been and will always be the norm. New content launches. Things will get knocked out of alignment, and it takes a few weeks to put it back into place. This is not unique to ED. Every other game updated through online means goes through this process.

Welcome to the future.

Perhaps instead of jumping on the new toys in Beta you'll actually go look for this stuff now eh? Or perhaps just stay out of beta altogether.

Ether way unless you're a codemaster who can fix the issue with a few taps of the keyboard, best you just report and stay out of the way. Complaining is going to solve nothing.

 

[Maka Gucci]

It's insane, it really is. But I don't think the solution is to scrab the background sim all together, I think it's incredibly efficient, just maybe holster it a bit. Limit it's ability to render these totally undesirable (from FDevs pov) missions, and subsidise the board with more hand crafted options.

If random gen wasn't leaned on quite so heavily it could be utilised where its most appropriate and effective, but be less devastating when it threw out a result that fell outside the very narrow scope of what is deemed in line with what FDev want when it comes to mission payouts.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

The BGS is a waste of time and needs to go. It's obviously the source of the ongoing dysfunction in this game. If it can't be reconciled by now, get rid of it.
In fact, nuke it from orbit just to be sure.

Oddly enough, I actually somewhat agree here. "Playing the BGS" is one of the biggest faults and failings, as well as one of the largest sources of things for people to complain about... but removing it? Nuking it? Not really a valid option. The real problem is that it's come too far out of the Background and turned into Foreground Simulation. Individually players have far too much influence... it's the equivalent of 100m cr/hr.

But how to actually fix it? My initial though is NPC Influence, but we already know too little about how the mechanics of the BGS actually works. This, along with Power Play would make a great Not-A-Season-4 focus to really shore up and spin into gold, Not-A-Season-3 style.

Fix this, and a whole lot of other things will fall into place nicely.

 

[ilo]

This post is not very useful is it? Oh, it is an informative to highlight that FD is taking immediate action on some parts of the game that are not working properly.. thanks OP!!

2 mission types are gone, so what? there is still like more than 20 types ??

 

[CMDR Dumbfries]

But how to actually fix it? My initial though is NPC Influence, but we already know too little about how the mechanics of the BGS actually works. This, along with Power Play would make a great Not-A-Season-4 focus to really shore up and spin into gold, Not-A-Season-3 style.

Fix this, and a whole lot of other things will fall into place nicely.

At the very least, disconnect the mission system from the BGS. Instead, generate missions based on more logical parameters like the type of ship you're flying, cargo space, loadout, etc...

 

[ilo]

At the very least, disconnect the mission system from the BGS. Instead, generate missions based on more logical parameters like the type of ship you're flying, cargo space, loadout, etc...

It has to be tied up to the BGS, just rebalance the rewards. Right now missions being generated are asking for less number of XXX than those given as rewards. I think FD has been a bit too generous in 3.0 with some of the rewards, but it is just the beginning of the season, everything will be balanced, and removed temporarily if necessary, there is no such drama as OP mentioned.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

The thing with missions is that they're the most obvious source of income.

...Boohoo, I'm still going to load up my mining rig and go pry minerals for flat profit income.

Not to mention that the 3 Ps (at least) got a nice buff in 3.0. Painite regularly going for 100k, with Platinum hitting 40k.

Still plenty of things to do out there.

Data
Massacre
Wetwork
Smuggling
Delivery and Supply
Base Scans
Generators
Liberate
Recover
Assassination

What am I missing? And that's just the mission boards.

It's not like skimmer missions aren't coming back. It's not like mining missions aren't coming back.

Calm the down, people.

 

[Witcher 7]

I'm late to the party again b/c more willing whistle blowers ;P I wonder if they get anything from FDev, hmm?


Anyway, why do players want so much CR$$$. Is it to buy more ships, more re-buy options or simply to brag?


This game has no end game and requires grinding to some extent though David Braben wants us to believe grinding is in the mind. If neither is reason nor greed, then what keeps players in this game?

 

[znôrt]

just came here to call bull excrement on the 'complexity of procedural generation' thingy. it indeed exists but has nothing to do with these two issues.

1. skimmers: you can stack 20 missions. every busted skimmer counts for all of them. what could possibly go wrong?
2. mining: you have missions that demand x and reward y. even x and y being variable random types, it's not too much to ask for to make sure they are not of the same class as to create a loop.

this has nothing to do with complexity. it's pure oversight or sloppy work.

actually, try to find a bug here https://forums.frontier.co.uk/forumdisplay.php/241-Beyond-3-0-Open-Beta-Bug-Reports that is truly attributable to unpredictable complexity or random factors. bad integration is not unpredictable, it's just lack of integration testing. good luck, and take a chair.

 

[yolomcbobbinz]

Maybe its time to stop nerfing them into oblivion, far to many exploits have slipped through and been abused, theres no longer a point in it.

 

[znôrt]

Did you look for these new bugs to report or were you screwing off playing with the new toys instead of actually TESTING?

doh ... i knew it. i knew it had to be the players' fault!

 

[ilo]

doh ... i knew it. i knew it had to be the players' fault!

According to youtube, everything was working fine, check the youtubers

 

[lefty1117]

I think the BGS is OK, it just needs to present more information so we understand what's going on. We need things like 5 day rolling price averages, all bubble market information accessible and shared (none of this having to discover it every 24 hours), and most of all we need detailed information on what the daily impacts are on system and economy states. Is a player group trying to oust another faction? Let's have a daily report that shows a summary of all the activities that impacted systme faction influence levels and state for the previous day.

I suspect the BGS is much deeper than we realize, but all of the info is hidden and so we can't play it properly. I also agree with the sentiment to revamp BGS and Powerplay and how they could potentially interact with each other. I always thought Powerplay had the potential to be the central directed content focus on the game ... the reason for people especially in late game stages to log in every day. It feels like an opportunity missed.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

just came here to call bull excrement on the 'complexity of procedural generation' thingy. it indeed exists but has nothing to do with these two issues.

1. skimmers: you can stack 20 missions. every busted skimmer counts for all of them. what could possibly go wrong?
2. mining: you have missions that demand x and reward y. even x and y being variable random types, it's not too much to ask for to make sure they are not of the same class as to create a loop.

this has nothing to do with complexity. it's pure oversight or sloppy work.

actually, try to find a bug here https://forums.frontier.co.uk/forumdisplay.php/241-Beyond-3-0-Open-Beta-Bug-Reports that is truly attributable to unpredictable complexity or random factors. bad integration is not unpredictable, it's just lack of integration testing. good luck, and take a chair.

Concur.

Trash in, trash out.

Hopefully missions and boards are a part of the major overhaul coming in 3.x

 

[Marc_Hicks]

Concur.

Trash in, trash out.

Hopefully missions and boards are a part of the major overhaul coming in 3.x

IIRC, Chapter 2 & Chapter 3 have a mission focus. I've put forward lots of suggestions about where they can be improved. Hopefully those ideas will get incorporated. I still say, though, that Procedural Generation gives far greater opportunity for mission variety than hand-crafted missions ever could.

 

[nosleepdemon]

Concur.

Trash in, trash out.

Hopefully missions and boards are a part of the major overhaul coming in 3.x

It's almost like whoever designed the mission system wrote no unit tests for it. I know I know, nobody ever unit tests...

 

[Duedy]

Removing them breaks my "Right Place Right Time" Immersion. Just cause I can do 1 mission and get some reward that allows me to turn in another mission instantly, or how I can't roll up full of mining cargo and find the mission boards all want commodities from the 3 ring types I didn't mine from is what made it it extra special when blazing my own trail.

 

[WreckWren]

3.0 has been the most bug ridden experience I've had in a game for quite some time. Really inexcusable bugs, like being locked into certain menus and not being able to do things I know I can do. Then we get to the absence of features: still no MC and Wings. Still no outfitting in MC. There is no reason for these two, they are an arbitrary limitation that serves only to frustrate.

3.0 fixed a great many things but it ignored a very large number as well.