Engineers FDev - have you actually played your own game?

[Bigskill]

To be fair FD have played their game and they probably think what they implemented was a good idea. The intent for engineers was for modifications in line with a tinkerer, not a professional engineer, and specials were going to be very rare. Given their alledged 10 year plan for ED it makes sense - progress behind a time wall that slowly unlocks to give the impression of that rarity:

• RNG - finding the materials
• RNG - rolling the modification
• RNG - special or not

Sadly - it's boring as hell.


I get that some will try to insinuate that you're "playing it wrong" and that you should be doing this as a side thing, not a primary thing, but having Engineers shoved down my throat for the last 6 months by FD I am quite sad at the outcome. Mentioned this before - Blizzard made this mistake thinking multiple layers of RNG made for good content ... it doesn't ... It frustrates players who want to enjoy the content for what it's worth.

The only problem is there is no content.... PP is played only for the weapons and then dropped, and from the people that do RP.
Engeneers is a nice idea but bad developped.... so this make me think who fault is this? Lead game Designer? Programmers? I dont know, I just want the game be fun and no farmish...
This imho of course.

Forgot to say that also I think FD play the game just a bit, thats the reason why they use customers as Beta. During the streaming you realize how deep is the knowledge of the Team.
not saying this is bad, but they should probably play more to better understand us.

 

[Wasp0]

Are some people not prepared to actually play the game? Do some people want an "AUTO" button to fly the ship, find everything, get all the mods, rank up, trade, combat, and they just sit watching Twitch or tube or Netflix? This game is about grinding, it's about exploring to find materials, to combat, to trade , to rank. It's not about having everything served to you on easy menus and you just tick a box and get what you want.

Do you think the Early Explorers in our world had a list of places to Visit along with the Navagation info? Could you imagine Christopher Columbus saying, Hmmm Now i want to find some Gold, let me look it up in my handy List of places that has Gold, Ah yes i think i'll go discover South America and get some inca Gold?????

Embrace the game as it is, don't expect Rank 5 Upgrades to your FSD from a menu and list of places to find all the componants, expect to have to WORK for your desires.

 

[Derath]

Its just a good idea badly implemented, primarily because it highlights the flaws in the current system by deliberately drawing attention to elements that aren't fitting.

Its much like the Orca right if the orca was a major update, you release a luxury passenger ship without passengers mechanics everyone rushes to the new content to find that there is a hole where many of the elements should be.

If they fairly quickly balance the unlock requirements, add storage and correctly tune both drop-rates and recipe requirements to actually be a progression instead of random most of the problems associated with 2.1 will go away. I feel bad for the developers right now as some of them are bound to see this and feel like everyone hates their work, which really isn't true it just needs the holes filling!

Thats my positivity for the day, any future threads will have me back to my usual level of cynicism!

 

[Qohen Leth]

I have to abide by these quite accurate words, that's mostly my feeling too. I started being quite happy with the update, but as it turns out I have a life (shallow, but still), and I spend time helping the community (see links in my signature...). So all in all, I could do a few rolls at Farseer's, and with expeditions incoming, that'll be all for the next months. MonthS. Too long, too frustrating.

Although I have to say in FD's defense, most of the frustrated feedback comes from players who spent hours upon hours speeding and ruching the grind, which is not, I would believe, how FDevs pictured the gameplay. In a way, it's obvious and to be expected that getting the best mods and all takes some time: ED is not a time attack game. Not at all. So yeah, those who have the time to play will have the best stuff earlier than the others, but all in all, what's the rush?

I feel a tad more frustrated personally when I spend my hours grinding for my myself and end up with a drawbacks-only grade 4 roll, when I have quite little time to play. Of course, it's my choice to invest in sheeting, photoshopping and all, but. But, when i play a game, I want to enjoy it half the time at least. And this enjoyment has thinned and vanished several weeks ago, unfortunately.

We'll see in the long run.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

No. I know this is repeated often and even FD have described it as such, but what they have actually built, and I refuse to believe this was by accident, is a massive amount of power creep locked behind equally massive grind and RNG. The other words they use, "rare", "special", "tinkerer", "unique", "variety" are just sugarcoating. What we have are is almost textbook Korean Grinder MMO gameplay; the only missing element is the cash store consumable item that allows you to bypass some downsides of the RNG or speed up the grind.

Sorry but it's the old "the fact that you don't like it" argument.

Someone within the towers of FD thought engineers was a good idea; it was signed off by the boss; and here we are.

Their outlook on the game doesn't match yours (or mine)

The only problem is there is no content.... PP is played only for the weapons and then dropped, and from the people that do RP.
Engeneers is a nice idea but bad developped.... so this make me think who fault is this? Lead game Designer? Programmers? I dont know, I just want the game be fun and no farmish...
This imho of course.

Forgot to say that also I think FD play the game just a bit, thats the reason why they use customers as Beta. During the streaming you realize how deep is the knowledge of the Team.
not saying this is bad, but they should probably play more to better understand us.

I agree.

Re-watch one of the live streams with Sandro and ED about Engineers. Whilst Sandro was chunnering on about something Ed was trying to do some upgrades and the look on his face when he couldn't get something good was priceless.

Fault lies with the man at the top - AFAIK he has final say on everything. Devs do their best within the confines of the given scope.

 

[skurvenyzmrd]

Yes, I'm sure many of them have played the game and so has their QA. All of this stuff is their vision for the game. They really only change things based on massive negative feedback and when they have time to redesign it. They are very excited when they release a patch to us, so they know what they are putting in their game, they even extended the development time on this patch. They knew what they were giving us and I'll bet they were hoping that we'd be just as excited about it.

so talk about disappointment then

 

[Derath]

Embrace the game as it is, don't expect Rank 5 Upgrades to your FSD from a menu and list of places to find all the componants, expect to have to WORK for your desires.

Your actually arguing the opposite side with this statement you know If you don't look at a list you won't find some of the components. Christopher Columbus couldn't change whether gold was present by sailing out of the harbour and back in again either

 

[Iskariot]

I do not like to have to search for individual rocks.
I would like it if FD added ore rich pockets to planets.
We should be able to search for those pockets in our ships and when we find them we can then land and collect the ore with our SRV.
There don't need to be hundreds of rocks in such a pocket just 10 or so would be fine.
I think this would alleviate the grind a bit and it also feels more natural.

 

[Qohen Leth]

Embrace the game as it is, don't expect Rank 5 Upgrades to your FSD from a menu and list of places to find all the componants, expect to have to WORK for your desires.

Actually, we have that list

 

[Kyokushin]

that you should be doing this as a side thing, not a primary thing

I can't imagine an occasionaly searching for rare components and after a half year off 'random and occasionaly' founded materials craft some modification what will be created by RNG and the main factor of improvement will be red

 

[DoctorDanny]

Are some people not prepared to actually play the game? Do some people want an "AUTO" button to fly the ship, find everything, get all the mods, rank up, trade, combat, and they just sit watching Twitch or tube or Netflix? This game is about grinding, it's about exploring to find materials, to combat, to trade , to rank. It's not about having everything served to you on easy menus and you just tick a box and get what you want.

Do you think the Early Explorers in our world had a list of places to Visit along with the Navagation info? Could you imagine Christopher Columbus saying, Hmmm Now i want to find some Gold, let me look it up in my handy List of places that has Gold, Ah yes i think i'll go discover South America and get some inca Gold?????

Embrace the game as it is, don't expect Rank 5 Upgrades to your FSD from a menu and list of places to find all the componants, expect to have to WORK for your desires.

Hyperbole much?

It's a game. People play games to have fun. A lot of people are not having fun, they're bored out of their heads by the time wasting rng mechanics.
So they complain about it.

 

[RustyLeg]

I would be willing to forgive the whole process if the engineer roll set the bottom end of the range to your current stats, barring the first ever roll for the module. That way, every subsequent roll didn't at least take you backwards and felt more like the engineer was tweaking your module to get the most out of it, even if the improvement was minuscule.

And I didn't feel like I'd wasted the last 6 hours of gathering.

 

[Comrade Napoleon]

I would be willing to forgive the whole process if the engineer roll set the bottom end of the range to your current stats, barring the first ever roll for the module. That way, every subsequent roll didn't at least take you backwards and felt more like the engineer was tweaking your module to get the most out of it, even if the improvement was minuscule.

And I didn't feel like I'd wasted the last 6 hours of gathering.

Think of all the experience you got!

Ducks and heads for the door!!

Cheers Cmdr's

 

[Privata]

No. I know this is repeated often and even FD have described it as such, but what they have actually built, and I refuse to believe this was by accident, is a massive amount of power creep locked behind equally massive grind and RNG. The other words they use, "rare", "special", "tinkerer", "unique", "variety" are just sugarcoating. What we have are is almost textbook Korean Grinder MMO gameplay; the only missing element is the cash store consumable item that allows you to bypass some downsides of the RNG or speed up the grind.

Its so that every upgrade feels unique and that no two ships are the same.
I like that a lot , the thing I hate the most in games is when there is one true way to do things and nothing else

 

[Bigskill]

I agree.

Re-watch one of the live streams with Sandro and ED about Engineers. Whilst Sandro was chunnering on about something Ed was trying to do some upgrades and the look on his face when he couldn't get something good was priceless.

Fault lies with the man at the top - AFAIK he has final say on everything. Devs do their best within the confines of the given scope.

Oh man, I thought I was the only one to notice.... For sure they have an hard work to do, but this is not they way....
To release an update like Pplay or Engeneers, or 1.2 Wings... then realize they need to be reworked is not efficient, is good to leave people do the alpha/beta testing, but listen to them.
Last night i spent 4 hours looking for polonium on a Hi rich planet near deciat, alone in the rover, and i found like 30 40 rocks with the most comomn materials, no sign of polonium, my friend was there too and he found 6 units.....
This is not fun at all, I prefere to group up with my friends and go pirating or do something else instead to listen the SRV radar for 4 frikken hours and then going in bed nervous for this game...
I love the game, but this is not the way to program and release updates....
At least Im happy because for the first time Im not the only one complaining, Solo play people, traders, explorers, pvpers, everyone is ing about this RNG and looting system.
4 hours is a lot of time, time wasted looking at pixel for nothing, at least have to be rewarding.

 

[Viking84]

Are some people not prepared to actually play the game? Do some people want an "AUTO" button to fly the ship, find everything, get all the mods, rank up, trade, combat, and they just sit watching Twitch or tube or Netflix? This game is about grinding, it's about exploring to find materials, to combat, to trade , to rank. It's not about having everything served to you on easy menus and you just tick a box and get what you want.

No arguing with you here, this game is about grinding.

Embrace the game as it is, don't expect Rank 5 Upgrades to your FSD from a menu and list of places to find all the componants, expect to have to WORK for your desires.

I fly a Cutter. I can grind with the best of them. What I can't stand is working, and working, and working, and STILL not getting what I am working for because I have been unlucky. Not inept, not dumb, but simply unlucky. That is      poor game design, and serves only to prolong the grind and artificially extend the life of the content they have provided.

If the materials where procedurally generated and intelligently placed, i.e. you could follow the same logic, go to the same spot on the same planet in multiple instances and find the same material, I would be all for it. But it's not, it is randomly generated each time you pop a rock, from a list of possible drops. Where is the skill? Same goes for wake scanning, mining, combat, everything. You just have to be lucky to get the right drop assuming you have targeted something which might contain what you are looking for.

This is why I state that FDev cannot possibly have put much time into actually playing this update - forcing players to grind away at an RNG looting system with the absolute simplest in game mechanics you have is a recipe for frustration and provides no feeling of satisfaction once your goal is achieved, only relief. I truly believe this cannot be what they intend the game to be about. If it is, well then I and many others will just give it up, despite all the good bits.

 

[starman]

They don't have time. Too busy counting the real cash.

Its like a chef not eating their own food. I know a few..

Or a Actor who doesn't watch their own film. Actually a lot.

The term Eating your own dog food. Apt in techland.

Anyone want to comment on the Cargo Insurance status display?

 

[Sams]

I would be willing to forgive the whole process if the engineer roll set the bottom end of the range to your current stats, barring the first ever roll for the module. That way, every subsequent roll didn't at least take you backwards and felt more like the engineer was tweaking your module to get the most out of it, even if the improvement was minuscule.

And I didn't feel like I'd wasted the last 6 hours of gathering.

^^ This ^^

It can be frustrating to spend quite a lot of time gathering the parts from all over the place, evading/battling pirates who think the 700CR worth of canisters is worth killing you for, 10-20 jumps to reach the engineer... to then find the Rank 3 or 4 you already had was actually a better roll than the Rank 5 you just tried.

I like having to do all the various things to get the upgrade. I've done things in the game I've never done before (wake scanning, material collecting on a planet... no I never bothered landing on a planet before this).

I don't even mind it can take me days of play to get all the parts I need for one try. I do mind that a lesser mod can be better than the higher tier.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

They don't have time. Too busy counting the real cash.

Missed a bit there : "They don't have time. Too busy counting the real cash and harvesting the tears from the players"

(I don't believe that by the way, just adding to the obvious joke)

 

[Assailer]

RNG based rewards for time taking activities is a big no-no!

Put RNG where it belongs like what enemies we fight, mission offers and commodity prices.

This is a complete and utter waste of time as it is.