Engineers FDev - have you actually played your own game?

[Eymerich]

Even as someone who currently has huge amounts of time to put into gaming, the more and more I play Engineers, the less I feel it is even worth that time. I have spent entire days (roughly 8 hours per) looking for certain materials only to come up empty handed. All for what? A chance at getting an upgrade. Let's not even talk about if you want a special effect on your weapons...

I don't mind a little bit of grind and RNG, but what we have now is just way too much. If they were trying to keep me around longer with all of this grind and RNG, then it really backfired horribly, because I've already given up on attempting to make anymore modifications for my ship.

On Rng I agree with you: sometimes I get a bad luck dice and a 5 level Fsd upgrade was less than a fourth grade.

Here, there is nothing more to say and Fd, hopefully, should change it or at least fix it.

On the other points, once you know where to gather material it's very fast get the mod you want.

Even the reputation with Eng it's quite fast to do.

To me 2.1. is a great step toward the right directions

 

[GG7]

It's not.

Actually it is. It has been dropping slowly over time for months. You can just check the STEAM stats to see the trend. While Steam players do not represent the entire community, there are enough players based on that platform to provide a pretty accurate representation of participation.

Last time I looked at the Steam stats for Elite Dangerous immediately after the 2.1 update was released, I saw the smallest bump in player participation I've ever seen after a major update. It also quickly dropped back to pre 2.1 levels over the last week, which was the fastest drop after a major update as well.

EDIT: The player participation reached its peak in November of 2015, not December. That total has fallen by over 60% since then.

All this data can easily be found on the Internet in a couple of seconds.

 

[electricmayhem]

We can debate population all we want. However, there are more folks that have quit AAA titles like The Division , Destiny, WoW, etc.... . Than have purchased Elite Dangerous. The problem is the crafting system is aweful. I think it could be one of the worst I've played in a long time.



The thing is, Engineers is just a small part of the game. It doesn't ruin the whole experience. However , I think the whole crafting system needs to be ripped out and re done. We as a player base need to patient. Frontier as a developer, needs to pull up its sleeves, sit down and think this one out better. Then piece by piece communicate it with the player base.


What boggles my mind is. There is so many other games to use as reference for great crafting mechanics. Games that have made companies millions because of it. Somebody some where in the development staff lost all common sense and rolled this out.


Here is hoping for a better version of this crafting system.

 

[Roybe]

Actually it is. It has been dropping slowly over time for months. You can just check the STEAM stats to see the trend. While Steam players do not represent the entire community, there are enough players based on that platform to provide a pretty accurate representation of participation.

Last time I look at the Steam stats for Elite Dangerous, I saw the smallest bump in player participation for 2.1 I've ever seen after a major update. It quickly dropped back to pre 2.1 levels over the last week.

The player participation reached its peak in December of 2015. That total has fallen by over 70% since then.

The only real number the devs SHOULD care about, is not who is currently playing (that's a subscription worry), but what % they can expect to purchase their next installment...and if that projected number provides enough profit to keep developing the game. THAT number is probably a lot smaller than most people would consider, since the devs have never been shy about the idea that they expected this game to be 'niche'. The fact that it sold over 1 million copies...is probably well outside their expectations as niche can be a game with much more conservative numbers than that.

As long as profits continue, development can continue...with only a change in cadence being the noticeable difference. Less profits, longer times between updates.

Dropping numbers, no matter how you slice it, are only relevant if they cause the game to be unprofitable. Unfortunately, we do not know where that baseline is...but, personally, I wouldn't be surprised if the number is quite low. A lot lower than what any external measurement is showing currently.

 

[GG7]

We can debate population all we want. However, there are more folks that have quit AAA titles like The Division , Destiny, WoW, etc.... . Than have purchased Elite Dangerous. The problem is the crafting system is aweful. I think it could be one of the worst I've played in a long time.



The thing is, Engineers is just a small part of the game. It doesn't ruin the whole experience. However , I think the whole crafting system needs to be ripped out and re done. We as a player base need to patient. Frontier as a developer, needs to pull up its sleeves, sit down and think this one out better. Then piece by piece communicate it with the player base.


What boggles my mind is. There is so many other games to use as reference for great crafting mechanics. Games that have made companies millions because of it. Somebody some where in the development staff lost all common sense and rolled this out.


Here is hoping for a better version of this crafting system.

Engineers WAS the MAJOR addition in 2.1 though. The fact that so many players, including myself have bailed on it due to all the issues and tedium is a pretty big deal. It also continues a disappointing trend with this game that major feature additions have consistently been met with luke warm reaction from the community.

Horizons as far as I know is the only major upgrade that was well regarded by most ED players.

PowerPlay, CQC and now Engineers. All three were highly touted and hyped by FD before their release, and each and every one of them were regarded as flops by the majority of the ED ownerbase.

That doesn't bode well for any future feature additions if you ask me. I'm one of those long playing ED fans that wish FD would focus on fixing and improving the base game instead of spending all their time on these half-baked add-ons that in the end, very few of us ultimately bother with.

 

[electricmayhem]

Engineers WAS the MAJOR addition in 2.1 though. The fact that so many players, including myself have bailed on it due to all the issues and tedium is a pretty big deal. It also continues a disappointing trend with this game that major feature additions have consistently been met with luke warm reaction from the community.

CQC, PowerPlay and now Engineers. All three were highly touted and hyped by FD before their release, and each and every one of them were regarded as flops by the majority of the ED ownerbase.

That doesn't bode well for any future feature additions if you ask me.

You sir are exactly right. I am of the glass half full approach. I'm still finding things to do in Elite. Excluding Power play, CQC and Engineers. However unless they start hitting home runs. The game will collapse.

 

[Moonax IRL]

Actually it is. It has been dropping slowly over time for months. You can just check the STEAM stats to see the trend. While Steam players do not represent the entire community, there are enough players based on that platform to provide a pretty accurate representation of participation.

Last time I looked at the Steam stats for Elite Dangerous immediately after the 2.1 update was released, I saw the smallest bump in player participation I've ever seen after a major update. It also quickly dropped back to pre 2.1 levels over the last week, which was the fastest drop after a major update as well.

EDIT: The player participation reached its peak in November of 2015, not December. That total has fallen by over 60% since then.

All this data can easily be found on the Internet in a couple of seconds.

In fairness you will be here in 12 months time repeating yourself in relation to steam and players no.s etc,etc. If you feel so strongly about it email FD with your stats and tell them that you think the game is doomed, as this old stuff repeated ad nauseam is tiresome. So criticise all you want, God knows I have a few of my own, but put the steam charts to bed will ya, thanks.

 

[GG7]

In fairness you will be here in 12 months time repeating yourself in relation to steam and players no.s etc,etc. If you feel so strongly about it email FD with your stats and tell them that you think the game is doomed, as this old stuff repeated ad nauseam is tiresome. So criticise all you want, God knows I have a few of my own, but put the steam charts to bed will ya, thanks.

Those charts are a VERY relevant gauge of the health of any game on that platform. The fact that ED is about to drop off the Top 100 should be of concern to anyone who wants this game to be around 2 years from now.

You are free to measure the game's success and future any way you like. I will stick with my methods because they work for a lot of folks in the industry.

 

[Moonax IRL]

Those charts are a VERY relevant gauge of the health of any game on that platform. The fact that ED is about to drop off the Top 100 should be of concern to anyone who wants this game to be around 2 years from now.

You are free to measure the game's success and future any way you like. I will stick with my methods because they work for a lot of folks in the industry.

Well I did tell you what to do if you felt so strongly, email FD with you stats and conclusions as they are the devs. Regurgitating the steam charts ad infinitum on this forum is tiresome and pointless, so go straight to the HQ yourself.

 

[GG7]

You sir are exactly right. I am of the glass half full approach. I'm still finding things to do in Elite. Excluding Power play, CQC and Engineers. However unless they start hitting home runs. The game will collapse.

I think most of us play the game for the base game anyway. Now including the Planetary landings which as I mentioned before, I think pretty much everyone enjoys and would not want to go back to just having 1.6 to play.

2.0 came out and had the usual issues, and 2.1 actually created more of them, including dodgy graphic issues with planetary terrain quality. (I play ULTRA on a high end 4k gaming PC, and I had no issues with the original "detailed" surface textures) The updated terrain looks like crap on my system now, and I am also getting odd frame rate hiccups and other issues I should not be seeing on such a powerful/fast rig. None of this was a problem in 2.0.

So that is another side of these add-ons. For me, all 2.1 managed to do was lower the immersion factor for me. I like the improved AI, but as someone that doesn't focus all their time on Combat related game play, I would gladly trade in the new AI for my 2.0 textures and locked 60fps at 1080p.

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Well I did tell you what to do if you felt so strongly, email FD with you stats and conclusions as they are the devs. Regurgitating the steam charts ad infinitum on this forum is tiresome and pointless, so go straight to the HQ yourself.

I'm sure they are well aware of all of these stats and would be surprised in the Steam Stats are not a permanently opened window on most of their browsers.

Your tone is coming off pretty condescending, so I will leave it here. If you don't like my comments, then by all means add me to your ignore list! I'm not about to change my opinions to suit some random on a forum.

 

[Moonax IRL]

I'm sure they are well aware of all of these stats and would be surprised in the Steam Stats are not a permanently opened window on most of their browsers.

Your tone is coming off pretty condescending, so I will leave it here. If you don't like my comments, then by all means add me to your ignore list! I'm not about to change my opinions to suit some random on a forum.

I don't mind your comments or any criticism of the game as I have my own, but the repetition is tiresome, it's like watching a dog chasing his tail.

 

[GG7]

I don't mind your comments or any criticism of the game as I have my own, but the repetition is tiresome, it's like watching a dog chasing his tail.

This is the FIRST time I have every mentioned the Steam Stats on this forum, so I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. ???

 

[Moonax IRL]

This is the FIRST time I have every mentioned the Steam Stats on this forum, so I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. ???

Well it gets bandied about enough, you are obviously part of the chorus, but my point still stands.

 

[Pardot Kynes]

Engineers WAS the MAJOR addition in 2.1 though. The fact that so many players, including myself have bailed on it due to all the issues and tedium is a pretty big deal. It also continues a disappointing trend with this game that major feature additions have consistently been met with luke warm reaction from the community.

Horizons as far as I know is the only major upgrade that was well regarded by most ED players.

PowerPlay, CQC and now Engineers. All three were highly touted and hyped by FD before their release, and each and every one of them were regarded as flops by the majority of the ED ownerbase.

That doesn't bode well for any future feature additions if you ask me. I'm one of those long playing ED fans that wish FD would focus on fixing and improving the base game instead of spending all their time on these half-baked add-ons that in the end, very few of us ultimately bother with.

>>PowerPlay, CQC and now Engineers. All three were highly touted and hyped by FD before their release, and each and every one of them were regarded as flops by the majority of the ED ownerbase.

Yes. You can argue 'well you don't have to participate' - but that leaves very little for the player after these 'major' updates. PPlay was and is a convoluted mess, CQC isn't Elite, and it looks like I won't be participating in Engineers with the time I have available. Strip these things out, and you have minor patches and, to be frank, some long overdue bug fixes.

I'd like to play Engineers casually, but without storage? I was killed the other day and lost the cargo I had picked up by default - so that's not an option either.

 

[Eera]

Look's like DEV didn't play its game since 2.1, and is doing the ostrich about GRIND & RNG.

 

[CMDR_Havok]

This current RNG system is punishing even players who grinded few hours daily by two weeks. What should i do then? Throw a job, and become no-life to get good FSD grade 5?
I played since release a 5-6 hours daily, not enough?

Many of us with families and jobs struggle to find 5hrs a week, ! on that time budget I rekon that I will hit Elite rank around about 2018 and thats is I dont wast time engineering or engaging in the poer play farce

 

[Starender]

just got martuuk from rank 3 35% to rank 4 with 33%... you can't even begin to imagine how much i grinded, it was crazy, i made like 3k Ly of back and forth in the human bubble, i drove the SRV for 5 hours, i killed a lot of innocent traders for maybe 2 hours, and more i can't remember, i'm so mentally tired right now...

the final run, i need 2 crafts rank 4 (what a waste of material) to get rank 5, so i will need to scan the wake's of every ship in front of a station for maybe 2 hours if i'm lucky, kill douzens more innocent i hope it won't take more than 1 hour, then i will need to drive the SRV again for maybe 4 hours to find Yllitrum, and finally i will need to go buy the final commodity which will only take me 1 hour. And then after all that i will be rank 5, so i will need to do that all over again and grind even more to be able to have a shot at getting a roll between +15 and +44 ><

I'm off for today...

 

[Killing Joke]

I was excited for Engineers, I had high hopes and perhaps that's where I went wrong.

On a positive since the release of Engineers I now have far more free time to spend playing other games as the senseless grind and blatant disrespect for the amount of time players put into Elite have resulted in my departure. The AI upgrade was a welcome addition as this gave much more spice to the combat but with the promise of greater degrees of customisation I feel completely lost with the "game" which seems more like a Korean grindfest MMO.

I wish I had something more constructive to add but everybody has more than sufficiently covered the horrendous state of play at the moment.

 

[Adept]

just got martuuk from rank 3 35% to rank 4 with 33%... you can't even begin to imagine how much i grinded, it was crazy, i made like 3k Ly of back and forth in the human bubble, i drove the SRV for 5 hours, i killed a lot of innocent traders for maybe 2 hours, and more i can't remember, i'm so mentally tired right now...

the final run, i need 2 crafts rank 4 (what a waste of material) to get rank 5, so i will need to scan the wake's of every ship in front of a station for maybe 2 hours if i'm lucky, kill douzens more innocent i hope it won't take more than 1 hour, then i will need to drive the SRV again for maybe 4 hours to find Yllitrum, and finally i will need to go buy the final commodity which will only take me 1 hour. And then after all that i will be rank 5, so i will need to do that all over again and grind even more to be able to have a shot at getting a roll between +15 and +44 ><

I'm off for today...

The design does leave me mystified. I'm thinking about David's "we're making this game for ourselves" comments. In many aspects I can see it. The gorgeous physical galaxy sim is a thing of beauty and the ships are fun to fly. It's how things like Power Play and Engineers are set up that confuses me. Is this truly the preferred, ideal gameplay? I don't think so. I think it's the case of running out of time and going for minimal implementation with the goal of coming back with enhancement issues later.

 

[Eera]

This current RNG system is punishing even players who grinded few hours daily by two weeks. What should i do then? Throw a job, and become no-life to get good FSD grade 5?
I played since release a 5-6 hours daily, not enough?

I can understand an approach of promoting playing instad of doing nothing, but at now it not working well.

Exactly YES !