FDEV, the amount of optional modules is too damn high!

Let's see what we have:

Shields:
  • Shield Generator
  • Bi-Weave Shield Generator
  • Prismatic Shield Generator
Reinforcement:
  • Shield Cell Bank
  • Hull Reinforcement Package
  • Module Reinforcement Package
  • Meta Alloy Hull Reinforcement Package
  • Guardian Shield Reinforcement Package
  • Guardian Hull Reinforcement Package
  • Guardian Module Reinforcement Package
Assist:
  • Standard Docking Computer
  • Advanced Docking Computer
  • Supercruise Assist
Cargo & Passengers:
  • Cargo Rack
  • Corrosion Resistant Cargo Rack
  • Economy Class Passenger Cabin
  • Business Class Passenger Cabin
  • First Class Passenger Cabin
Hangars:
  • Fighter Hangar
  • Planetary Vehicle Hangar
Limpets:
  • Collector Limpet Controller
  • Fuel Transfer Limpet Controller
  • Hatch Breaker Limpet Controller
  • Prospector Limpet Controller
  • Repair Limpet Controller
  • Recon Limpet Controller
  • Decontamination Limpet Controller
  • Research Limpet Controller
Misc:
  • Detailed Surface Scanner
  • Automated Field-Maintenance Unit
  • Refinery
  • FSD Interdictor
  • Fuel Tank
  • Fuel Scoop
  • Guardian Frame Shift Drive Booster
That's a lot to choose from. And choice is always good, isn't it? Well not if it's a hindrance to gameplay. As an example, I might want to play as a good samaritan, helping everyone I encounter as I play the game. That requires shields for fighting off pirates (and maybe some defensive upgrades), cargo racks to carry food for the starvings and limpets, fuel transfer limpet controllers and repair limpet controllers. Now if I want to carry anything else it already gets quite problematic (Fuel Scoop, Collector Limpets, Hangars, AFMU, FSD Interdictor, etc.).
I could simply switch modules or ships, but it breaks the gameplay flow and that's a pretty bad thing. It's just annoying and doesn't add anything to the game. When I encounter someone who needs help I'd rather help him than jumping 150ly to my stored modules. This design actually stops me from engaging with the design, which is probably the worst thing you can do.
Now I don't want to take choice away because it can indeed be beneficial to the game. But it should only exist where it makes sense! Some modules could simply be standard ship functionality as long as they aren't required for the various professions.

Another (but related problem) is defensive module stacking. It's simply nuts. You can increase hull resistance by 2000% just by stacking HRPs. And then you can go on and engineer them even more. Imagine the same would be possible with shields, everyone would say that's just crazy but we accept the current situation because that's how it is and we are used to it. Now I understand that not everyone sees it as an issue. As a pure PvE/Solo player or as a pure PvPer it might not be a problem or even beneficial. But as someone who tries to engage in the different activities of the game while playing in Open it's simply unbalanced (and that happens to be the original design philosophy of the game).

Proposals / Potential solutions:
So the first thing that needs to be done is to limit reinforcement modules to one per ship, which just makes sense because it gets rid of the problem and is in line with the implementation of shields.

Next I would merge all limpet controllers into one module that controls all limpets context sensitive. If I target cargo it collects cargo, if I target the cargo hatch it breaks the cargo hatch and if I target the fuel tank it refuels the ship. We just have one limpet type anyway and even the smallest controller already weights 2 tons (what kind of controller is that and why is it limited to just one operation?!).

Docking Computer and SC assist should simply be part of our core ship functionality. These things exist today and I see no reason why they shouldn't be implemented in our ships. There is no flight assist module either. This would allow me to read Galnet or the Codex during those boring SC transitions. Just let us disable them in the right hand panel. There should also be benefits doing it manually, it should always be the fastest / most efficient way to handle your ship but I guess that's already the case.

I don't have any hard feelings on this one but there could even be a 1 person passenger cabin and a 2 tons cargo rack in every ship. I don't really care about it but to me it just makes sense that there is a bed and a storage room, even the smallest ships are quite big after all and even a Porsche has a trunk. The same is true for a basic fuel scoop (which could be upgraded similar to the core modules) but I don't want to see the fuel rats vanishing from the game, so that's probably a no-go.

In my opinion this would dramatically reduce the limitations of the current design while still allowing choice and ship specialisation.


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Yes, I do. But these options are more like a help on/off that should be able to be changed on the fly without going to outfitting.
Would you like a module to turn orbital lines on/off?

EDIT: To clarify: Having these options in the menu allows you to switch them on/off without going to outfitting and while out in space. Meaning, there is more Quality of Life having them not as a module.
 
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I'm not sure about combining everything in one controller, but maybe have combined controllers for certain roles e.g.

Mining controller - prospector/collector

Piracy controller - hatch breaker/collector

Rescue controller - Fuel/repair
But why? How does it add to the game?
 
I'm not sure about combining everything in one controller, but maybe have combined controllers for certain roles e.g.

Mining controller - prospector/collector

Piracy controller - hatch breaker/collector

Rescue controller - Fuel/repair

i must admit 1 programmable controller (so A rated could perhaps have 8 programming modules, B 6, C 4 D 2 and E 1 for instance.

imo this is esp more important now after we have those unforuntate npcs out of fuel. transferring emergency fuel i do not think needs to be something which is a faff to do. i lke the idea of being a good samaritan for npcs.... but i aint gonna go out of my way for them - i am good but not that good ;)
 
You can rescue derelict ships in USS now just by accepting in the chat IIRC since Beyond. No need for repair or refuel limpet.

They heard. Or it's a bug.

Anyway, keep on preaching, cya next year.
 
You can rescue derelict ships in USS now just by accepting in the chat IIRC since Beyond. No need for repair or refuel limpet.

They heard. Or it's a bug.

really? that seems a strange feature! surely it is a bug? but to be fair who knows???? i thought being able to get to elite exploration by pootling about in the bubble as well as getting to trade elite in low double digit hrs was a bug as well.... so what do i know?
 
Let's see what we have:

Shields:
  • Shield Generator
  • Bi-Weave Shield Generator
  • Prismatic Shield Generator
Reinforcement:
  • Shield Cell Bank
  • Hull Reinforcement Package
  • Module Reinforcement Package
  • Meta Alloy Hull Reinforcement Package
  • Guardian Shield Reinforcement Package
  • Guardian Hull Reinforcement Package
  • Guardian Module Reinforcement Package
Assist:
  • Standard Docking Computer
  • Advanced Docking Computer
  • Supercruise Assist
Cargo & Passengers:
  • Cargo Rack
  • Corrosion Resistant Cargo Rack
  • Economy Class Passenger Cabin
  • Business Class Passenger Cabin
  • First Class Passenger Cabin
Hangars:
  • Fighter Hangar
  • Planetary Vehicle Hangar
Limpets:
  • Collector Limpet Controller
  • Fuel Transfer Limpet Controller
  • Hatch Breaker Limpet Controller
  • Prospector Limpet Controller
  • Repair Limpet Controller
  • Recon Limpet Controller
  • Decontamination Limpet Controller
  • Research Limpet Controller
Misc:
  • Detailed Surface Scanner
  • Automated Field-Maintenance Unit
  • Refinery
  • FSD Interdictor
  • Fuel Tank
  • Fuel Scoop
  • Guardian Frame Shift Drive Booster
That's a lot to choose from. And choice is always good, isn't it? Well not if it's a hindrance to gameplay. As an example, I might want to play as a good samaritan, helping everyone I encounter as I play the game. That requires shields for fighting off pirates (and maybe some defensive upgrades), cargo racks to carry food for the starvings and limpets, fuel transfer limpet controllers and repair limpet controllers. Now if I want to carry anything else it already gets quite problematic (Fuel Scoop, Collector Limpets, Hangars, AFMU, FSD Interdictor, etc.).
I could simply switch modules or ships, but it breaks the gameplay flow and that's a pretty bad thing. It's just annoying and doesn't add anything to the game. When I encounter someone who needs help I'd rather help him than jumping 150ly to my stored modules. This design actually stops me from engaging with the design, which is probably the worst thing you can do.
Now I don't want to take choice away because it can indeed be beneficial to the game. But it should only exist where it makes sense! Some modules could simply be standard ship functionality as long as they aren't required for the various professions.

Another (but related problem) is defensive module stacking. It's simply nuts. You can increase hull resistance by 2000% just by stacking HRPs. And then you can go on and engineer them even more. Imagine the same would be possible with shields, everyone would say that's just crazy but we accept the current situation because that's how it is and we are used to it. Now I understand that not everyone sees it as an issue. As a pure PvE/Solo player or as a pure PvPer it might not be a problem or even beneficial. But as someone who tries to engage in the different activities of the game while playing in Open it's simply unbalanced (and that happens to be the original design philosophy of the game).

Proposals / Potential solutions:
So the first thing that needs to be done is to limit reinforcement modules to one per ship, which just makes sense because it gets rid of the problem and is in line with the implementation of shields.

Next I would merge all limpet controllers into one module that controls all limpets context sensitive. If I target cargo it collects cargo, if I target the cargo hatch it breaks the cargo hatch and if I target the fuel tank it refuels the ship. We just have one limpet type anyway and even the smallest controller already weights 2 tons (what kind of controller is that and why is it limited to just one operation?!).

Docking Computer and SC assist should simply be part of our core ship functionality. These things exist today and I see no reason why they shouldn't be implemented in our ships. There is no flight assist module either. This would allow me to read Galnet or the Codex during those boring SC transitions. Just let us disable them in the right hand panel. There should also be benefits doing it manually, it should always be the fastest / most efficient way to handle your ship but I guess that's already the case.

I don't have any hard feelings on this one but there could even be a 1 person passenger cabin and a 2 tons cargo rack in every ship. I don't really care about it but to me it just makes sense that there is a bed and a storage room, even the smallest ships are quite big after all and even a Porsche has a trunk. The same is true for a basic fuel scoop (which could be upgraded similar to the core modules) but I don't want to see the fuel rats vanishing from the game, so that's probably a no-go.

In my opinion this would dramatically reduce the limitations of the current design while still allowing choice and ship specialisation.
While I do agree that there are too many optional modules I would do it differently to what you propose.

For Modules we have:

Bulkheads
Powerplant
Thrusters
Frame Shift Drive
Life support
PD
Sensors
Optional Modules
Weapons
Utilites

My proposal would be to give some the above secondary slots and I would also add another category and change one. This is how I would do it.

Bulkheads - Change to Hull Plating
Have secondary slots like the below
  • Light Weight - none
  • Reinforced Alloy - one
  • Military Grade - two
In these slots you can add hull reinforcment packages
Mirrored and Reactive should be an exprimental effect from an engineer that applies to the Hull Plating and can be applied to any Hull plating.

Powerplant
As is. Does not need to change

Thrusters
As is. Does not need to change

Frame Shift Drive
As is. Does not need to change

Life support
As is. Does not need to change

PD
As is. Does not need to change

Sensors
Sensor should have sub slots the high the size the more slots it has. The slots will equal the size + 1. So a size 1 has 2 sub slots and a size 8 has 9. This will also make up for the discrepency in weight and have a reason for it. Anything uses sensors, scanners or comms should be put in sub slots here.
This includes:
  • FSD interdictor
  • Limpet controllers (these will still be seperate). Have one size limpet controller. They can control 2 limpets, but you add more then one controller of the same type so you can control more then 2.
  • Detailed surface scanner
  • Manifest Scanner
  • Kill Warrant Scanner
  • Frame shift wake scanner
  • Zeno Scanner
  • Pulse wave analyser
Ships Computer - A new core internal
This will have sub slots depending on rank:
  • A: 4
  • B: 3 (heavier and more shielded)
  • C: 2
  • D: 1 (light wieght)
  • E: 1
In these slots you can put the
  • Standard Docking Computer
  • Advanced Docking Computer
  • Supercruise Assist
That does leave a space, but that can be for anything else that gets added. Maybe synthesis could have it's own module.

Optional Modules
Remove the modules that are now part of other sections and lower the amount of optional modules if needed.
Add bulkhead reinforcement in here as bulkheads are internal and not external. It would make more sense, but limit the amount or the size that can be added. Maybe all bulhead reinforcments should only be size 1.

Shields
Shield should have secondary slots depending on rank of shield. You don't have to fit a shield if you don't want to, but you can fill that space with anything else as it is nt.
  • A: 4
  • B: 3 (but heavier and more shielded)
  • C: 2
  • D: 1 (light wieght)
  • E: 1
Within these subslots you can add shield boosters, shield booster should add a set amount and not a percentage (remove shield cell banks as I do not see the point in them, but if they are to remain, add them to the utilites slot and they only add a percentage of the shields strength instead of a set number).

Weapons
As is. Does not need to change apart from the ridiculous power creep.

Utilites
As is. Does not need to change apart from the removal of the the utilites that are now a part of the sensor package.
Maybe some of the utility slots can be removed from some of the larger ships.

Obviously this is a lot of work and I haven't done the maths properly so some things may not add up, but I am sure it can be balanced and should help with the module creep.
 
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I generally think the amount and different type of optional modules is fine where ships can be outfitted for different roles. If there was something combat oriented that had to be nerfed, I'd lean maybe to the amount or effectives of current HRPs could be lessened somewhat across the board.
 
I generally think the amount and different type of optional modules is fine where ships can be outfitted for different roles. If there was something combat oriented that had to be nerfed, I'd lean maybe to the amount or effectives of current HRPs could be lessened somewhat across the board.
So which role is the docking computer? ;)
 
Next I would merge all limpet controllers into one module that controls all limpets context sensitive. If I target cargo it collects cargo, if I target the cargo hatch it breaks the cargo hatch and if I target the fuel tank it refuels the ship. We just have one limpet type anyway and even the smallest controller already weights 2 tons (what kind of controller is that and why is it limited to just one operation?!).

There are a few cases where limpets can't just be target-context sensitive, because you target the same thing (or the same nothing) with them, but want a different result. There's also a difference in behaviour between prospectors and all the other types for "what happens if you try to fire one when the controller is maxed out already" - prospectors self-destruct the oldest to make room, while the rest just refuse to fire, which would be difficult to unify on one controller.

But I do fully agree with reducing the number of distinct limpet types by using context sensitivity. The scheme I've suggested before is:

Type 1: collection
- target a cargo pod or material, acts as collector
- target a ship, acts as hatchbreaker
- target an alien, acts as research
- target nothing, acts as collector in bulk mode

Type 2: analysis
- target nothing, acts as prospector
- target a structure, acts as recon (slight behaviour change: these would now expire like prospectors if you fired too many)

Type 3: assistance
- target a ship on emergency life support or reserve tank only: acts as fuel
- target a ship with more fuel than that but some hull damage: acts as repair
- target a ship with no hull damage: acts as fuel

In general most ships wouldn't need to carry all three types anyway, but with the new optional slot everyone should have space for two types if they want to be flexible.
 
Why not increase the power requirements of things like boosters and shields, so people really have to work those power settings like the good old days?
 
No, there are wing fights.If you limit to 1HRP per ship wing fights won't last nearly long enough as they should. If you want to "help" the answer is already in engineering. FD aren't stupid, we arrived at current situation because it's satisfactory to a wide cross-section of players, not just those who want to "help". Think about the others too, not just yourself.
 
No, I'd say the amount of keybinds is too damn high. I came back to a whole new exploration and discovery system requiring what looks like an hour or two of new keybinds to figure out. Don't want to bother with it, was happy with the way it was. Ugh.
 
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