Ships FDL: sadly disappointing

[KayAitch]

Following the 3 recent CG in Kaushpoos I upgraded from my FAS to a Fer De Lance and I found it really disappointing.

Pros:

• That shield is amazing
• Hitting a target with that huge plasma accelerator is awesome

Cons:

• That shield takes 6 minutes to recharge, I spent 90% of my combat time avoiding combat and waiting for it to recharge.
• There isn't enough power/space to stack lots of SCB.
• It turns like a pig - hitting anything with that fixed PA is a 'mare. Either you can't bring it to bear or you FA off and correct for your own direction changes.
• All the other guns are mediums, leaving you with not other hitter weapons to break large ships with.
• Even lower jump range.

If it had two large hardpoints instead of two of those mediums, or if it turned like the FAS or Vulture (or, you know, any other combat ship) then it would be awesome. As it stands it might be ok if it costed 30 million.

As it stands, what's the point of the Fer De Lance?

 

[quickr]

It's excellent combat ship, specially PvP ship, but requires active power management and it's not suited for everyone. You need patience and skill to fly it.

Although i prefer FAS over FDL

 

[puca]

Following the 3 recent CG in Kaushpoos I upgraded from my FAS to a Fer De Lance and I found it really disappointing.

Pros:

• That shield is amazing
• Hitting a target with that huge plasma accelerator is awesome

Cons:

• That shield takes 6 minutes to recharge, I spent 90% of my combat time avoiding combat and waiting for it to recharge.
• There isn't enough power/space to stack lots of SCB.
• It turns like a pig - hitting anything with that fixed PA is a 'mare. Either you can't bring it to bear or you FA off and correct for your own direction changes.
• All the other guns are mediums, leaving you with not other hitter weapons to break large ships with.
• Even lower jump range.

If it had two large hardpoints instead of two of those mediums, or if it turned like the FAS or Vulture (or, you know, any other combat ship) then it would be awesome. As it stands it might be ok if it costed 30 million.

As it stands, what's the point of the Fer De Lance?

You have much to learn.

Learn to use thruster-assisted turning. FDL has very good thrusters: it turns like an 8 with them.

Learn to use PIPs to ENG to turn.

You have utility space for chaff: use chaff and speed and your small size to avoid damage. Also learn when to put PIPs to SYS: you get more than 50% damage reduction on shield damage with 4 PIPs.

Consider learning to use fixed weapons. Fixed beams hit very hard, even class 2 beams.

FDL requires some thought to fit everything in. My current build has room for SCBs.

FDL does overheat easily. The jump range problem is overstated, a shield cell python has about the same jump range: 12-14 ly.

---

The general idea with the FDL is that you have less shield cells compared to the python, but you should take a lot less damage, so you need less of them. If you take a ton of damage, don't worry -- the FDL is a high skill ceiling ship, there are lots of ways to improve.

 

[Krezan]

All you need is a bit of clever power management and it's a awesome ship (apart from fuel tank). Sold ships to get this ship and love it. You are doing it wrong .

 

[Stressfest]

It's unlike any other ship. You really need to know how to fly it. You just can't pitch, yaw and thrust and expect to win day. It requires extra input, compensation for drift and a certain element of counter steering. Its hard to master but its infinity worth while.

 

[Sloan Kettering]

You aren't going to get anywhere trying to fly it like a vulture or FAS. Lots of advanced techniques need to be employed to use this ship well - thruster assisted turning, FA off, frequent power adjustments, FIXED LASERS. Pips in ENG have a much effect of maneuvering than other ships. Use your speed to keep the engagement ranges far enough where fixed weapons become more effective. You're going to need to set power priorities to use your SCBs. On my build, the PA and KWS shut off when I turn on my 2 x 4B SCBs. If you just want to get in turning battles with gimballed weapons, a vulture or FAS will serve you better. The Lance is difficult to fly but MUCH more powerful once mastered. http://coriolis.io/outfit/fer_de_la...4a5e5ef266.Iw1-gDJJA===.EwBhrEEZMnfMIA==?bn=3

- - - Updated - - -

The jump range problem is overstated, a shield cell python has about the same jump range: 12-14 ly.

The range isn't the problem so much as the fuel tank. The python has a full size tank (same class as FSD) so that's actually twice the range of an FdL. I usually get by with an added c2 fuel tank when I need the extra combat radius.

 

[Sloan Kettering]

I've been debating added mil spec armor since 1.4 came out... what do you guys think? I've mostly been flying the FAS since 1.4 came out but will return to the Lance once I tire of it.

 

[Stressfest]

Do it. I was debating the same thing and It saved my bacon last night when I picked on the wrong Anaconda... these things are in wings now?! lol... wut!

 

[BanzaiZAP]

For that shield recharge time: turn OFF the Boosters during recharge. If they are on, it has to recharge the full boosted amount. Turn them off, recharge normally, then turn them back on. Much faster!

If it turns like a pig for you, you aren't turning right. Drop to blue, hit the boosters, then FA-Off and whip around, re-engage FA and goose the throttle. Most important: Use your lateral/vertical thrusters! Those extra thrusters help whip her around even faster! They're so good on a Ferdie that you can do some serious strafing, especially on Pythons and Anacondas. It takes practice, but with A-rated thrusters, the Ferdie is a real dancer.

My build says Screw the Class 4. I have a pair of medium rails for the big targets, and go all pulses in the other slots, including the Class 3 in the big slot. It sounds like a waste, but I have NO heat issues, and paired rails in the nose means both rails hit, and that wipes out power plants in just a couple hits, even on a Anaconda with full shields. Two medium pulses with a large pulse takes down anything smaller than an Asp without needing the rails.

Jump range..... yeah it's terrible. I swap in a scoop when I'm travelling and swap it out when I reach my destination.

I'm also upgrading the armor. It only knocks off about 5 m/s from speed, and I like the damage reduction when the shields drop.

 

[Cmdr. Numa]

There you have it, one ship, multiple opinions. I'll add yet another loadout that works for me: Class 3 gimballed beam for taking out shields and small vermin. 4 class 2 gimballed multicannons to shred medium to large hulls. That loadout packs a better punch than pulses and is very energy efficient. Most of the time I can just run 3 sys 1 engine 2 weapons and have no issues.

 

[Mephane]

For that shield recharge time: turn OFF the Boosters during recharge. If they are on, it has to recharge the full boosted amount. Turn them off, recharge normally, then turn them back on. Much faster!

Oh if that little semi-myth would just die out.

Turning off boosters does exactly nothing for regeneration rate, because regeneration is a fixed value (1MJ/s). All that turning them off does is lower the maximum shield capacity, so the same 1MJ/s appear to be faster because the total MJ value is smaller. As soon as you turn the boosters back on, your previously 100% shields will suddenly no longer be at 100%. You have to wait the same amount of time regardless.

There is only one scenario where turning off shields boosters does indeed speed it up: if you are in a SCB spam build (which means not an FDL in the first place), downed shields reinitialize quicker, and then you can chug a couple of SCBs to rapidly refill the shields. But when you (have to) rely on passive regeneration, the shield booster trick is merely an illusion.

 

[KayAitch]

You have much to learn.

Learn to use thruster-assisted turning. FDL has very good thrusters: it turns like an 8 with them.

Learn to use PIPs to ENG to turn.

You have utility space for chaff: use chaff and speed and your small size to avoid damage. Also learn when to put PIPs to SYS: you get more than 50% damage reduction on shield damage with 4 PIPs.

Consider learning to use fixed weapons. Fixed beams hit very hard, even class 2 beams.

FDL requires some thought to fit everything in. My current build has room for SCBs.

FDL does overheat easily. The jump range problem is overstated, a shield cell python has about the same jump range: 12-14 ly.

---

The general idea with the FDL is that you have less shield cells compared to the python, but you should take a lot less damage, so you need less of them. If you take a ton of damage, don't worry -- the FDL is a high skill ceiling ship, there are lots of ways to improve.

Dude! I fought my way up to the FDL, that's all stuff I learnt way back.

The FDL doesn't turn at all unless you're in the blue throttle area. It seems more strongly affected by pips in ENG and throttle location than any ship I've flown - which would be fine if it then turned well, but 4 pips + blue will just about let you outmaneuver a Python. It doesn't skid much (which the Viper, Imperial Courier, Vulture and FAS all do to some degree) which does give it a unique feel, but does leave you flying with FA-off most of the time.

Amazingly, given the hours of combat I've put in, I already have actually learnt to use fixed weapons! The placement is quite good on the FDL, but with that slow turning actually using them is impractical (not impossible, but harder enough that you're spending a lot less time actually hitting the target).

 

[KayAitch]

Oh if that little semi-myth would just die out.

Turning off boosters does exactly nothing for regeneration rate, because regeneration is a fixed value (1MJ/s). All that turning them off does is lower the maximum shield capacity, so the same 1MJ/s appear to be faster because the total MJ value is smaller. As soon as you turn the boosters back on, your previously 100% shields will suddenly no longer be at 100%. You have to wait the same amount of time regardless.

There is only one scenario where turning off shields boosters does indeed speed it up: if you are in a SCB spam build (which means not an FDL in the first place), downed shields reinitialize quicker, and then you can chug a couple of SCBs to rapidly refill the shields. But when you (have to) rely on passive regeneration, the shield booster trick is merely an illusion.

You're right that turning off boosters doesn't change your regen rate, it's always 1MJ/s.

However, when your shields are down they don't come back until you are at 50% of your max shield. Turn off your boosters to reduce your max shield and make that 50% threshold lower, then turn them back on once your shields are back up.

I wrote up what we know about how shields work here: http://gaming.stackexchange.com/q/238884/13264

If your shields go down in the FDL you have to run, your hull doesn't last long. You have a huge shield but you're very dependent on it, and unless you want to use lots of boosters you're going to want to regen it up to 3 rings between fights, but waiting for that takes a long time.

- - - Updated - - -

For that shield recharge time: turn OFF the Boosters during recharge. If they are on, it has to recharge the full boosted amount. Turn them off, recharge normally, then turn them back on. Much faster!

If it turns like a pig for you, you aren't turning right. Drop to blue, hit the boosters, then FA-Off and whip around, re-engage FA and goose the throttle. Most important: Use your lateral/vertical thrusters! Those extra thrusters help whip her around even faster! They're so good on a Ferdie that you can do some serious strafing, especially on Pythons and Anacondas. It takes practice, but with A-rated thrusters, the Ferdie is a real dancer.

My build says Screw the Class 4. I have a pair of medium rails for the big targets, and go all pulses in the other slots, including the Class 3 in the big slot. It sounds like a waste, but I have NO heat issues, and paired rails in the nose means both rails hit, and that wipes out power plants in just a couple hits, even on a Anaconda with full shields. Two medium pulses with a large pulse takes down anything smaller than an Asp without needing the rails.

Jump range..... yeah it's terrible. I swap in a scoop when I'm travelling and swap it out when I reach my destination.

I'm also upgrading the armor. It only knocks off about 5 m/s from speed, and I like the damage reduction when the shields drop.

Any build that drops that class 4 is kind of missing the point - there are plenty of cheaper ships that can use a pair of medium rails like that, including the FAS.

I'm not saying that you can't get a half decent build out of a FDL, I'm saying that for the most expensive fighter in the game it's decidedly underwhelming.

 

[joyrex]

OP: be patient!

I had your exact same feeling when i started flying the FDL, i was frustrated because i spent 80mil on a ship that just didn't work, i was coming from a vulture (that in my opinion is just overpowered for the price point and takes pretty much no skill to fly) and well it was depressing.

So i stocked my FDL, jumped back on my vulture and then i wondered "what if it's my fault" and jumped back in.

It took a few days and lots and lots of outfitting changes but now with 1 huge cannon, 2 medium cannons and 2 medium bursts there's just no ship that can stay alive for a long time, once you learn to shoot gimbaled cannons and to use FAOFF and those sweet strafing thrusters (as many in this thread pointed out) the FDL becomes the final combat vessel and you will have fun with it.



ALSO: sounds, there is nothing meaner than a FDL boosting or changing pace, it just sounds like something that is going to put the hurt on anything that moves

 

[KayAitch]

OP: be patient!

I had your exact same feeling when i started flying the FDL, i was frustrated because i spent 80mil on a ship that just didn't work, i was coming from a vulture (that in my opinion is just overpowered for the price point and takes pretty much no skill to fly) and well it was depressing.

So i stocked my FDL, jumped back on my vulture and then i wondered "what if it's my fault" and jumped back in.

It took a few days and lots and lots of outfitting changes but now with 1 huge cannon, 2 medium cannons and 2 medium bursts there's just no ship that can stay alive for a long time, once you learn to shoot gimbaled cannons and to use FAOFF and those sweet strafing thrusters (as many in this thread pointed out) the FDL becomes the final combat vessel and you will have fun with it.



ALSO: sounds, there is nothing meaner than a FDL boosting or changing pace, it just sounds like something that is going to put the hurt on anything that moves

It does look and sound great.

I can get it to work, but top tier fighter? It's nothing close. It has slightly better overall guns than the FAS but being less manoverable hurts it a lot. It doesn't have better guns than the Python, and they're almost on a par otherwise.

It's a pity because it would be awesome with slightly better guns or if it was more manoverable. As it stands it's meh. Ok. Disappointing.

 

[joyrex]

It does look and sound great.

I can get it to work, but top tier fighter? It's nothing close. It has slightly better overall guns than the FAS but being less manoverable hurts it a lot. It doesn't have better guns than the Python, and they're almost on a par otherwise.

It's a pity because it would be awesome with slightly better guns or if it was more manoverable. As it stands it's meh. Ok. Disappointing.

I disagree, that huge slot really really hurts other ships with either a cannon or a PA.


I don't know about the FAS, it's just too ugly for me to jump on it

 

[Stressfest]

They're all different. I've got an A spec Python, FAS and FDL... I use them all for different roles and they all fly radically different. The FAS is something else.. It almost flies itself, it's that forgiving. The FDL is rewarding if you put the work in but each to their own.. we all look for different things in the game.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

Power is no issue when it comes to how many SCB you can use, just do powermanagment and you can stack one in every internal. And how that many should not be enough is beyond me, never have more then one SCB in my FDL and hes doing fine. Unless you go in one of those boring "lets just always face eatch other and shooting and see who has more SCBs" fights. And for those you really don't need a FDL, its wasted potential. Just take a T9

 

[puca]

Dude! I fought my way up to the FDL, that's all stuff I learnt way back.

Let me ask you this. All those people who think the FDL is the best pvp ship in the game, what are they missing that you are getting? You seem to think the FDL is quite bad.

You came here asking what the point of the FDL is. The point is, it's a really good combat ship.

 

[Cyberguts]

Following the 3 recent CG in Kaushpoos I upgraded from my FAS to a Fer De Lance and I found it really disappointing.

Pros:

• That shield is amazing
• Hitting a target with that huge plasma accelerator is awesome

Cons:

• That shield takes 6 minutes to recharge, I spent 90% of my combat time avoiding combat and waiting for it to recharge.
• There isn't enough power/space to stack lots of SCB.
• It turns like a pig - hitting anything with that fixed PA is a 'mare. Either you can't bring it to bear or you FA off and correct for your own direction changes.
• All the other guns are mediums, leaving you with not other hitter weapons to break large ships with.
• Even lower jump range.

If it had two large hardpoints instead of two of those mediums, or if it turned like the FAS or Vulture (or, you know, any other combat ship) then it would be awesome. As it stands it might be ok if it costed 30 million.

As it stands, what's the point of the Fer De Lance?

I had the same issue, and actually repurchased the FDL 2 times before me and it finally clicked!
I too was to used to FAS, and because of this; you really need the 5A Thrusters and a bit of time to get used to it before you finally get with the curve.....

Now, even on the XB1 version and it's limited FAOff abilities; I can actually turn this faster than my FAS AND do more damage. Plus, when you've finally learnt how to use the thrusters; you'll be able to keep on target even with the small ships.

Just give it time, get into a roid field and learn to fly over again.