Yet a prettier remake of the original with added multiplayer is basically what we ended up with. Most of the improvements are purely cosmetic.
FE2/FFE vs. ED. What are we actually missing?
- Thread starter Balfuset790
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Yet a prettier remake of the original with added multiplayer is basically what we ended up with. Most of the improvements are purely cosmetic.
I think people have pretty much covered the 'what's missing' stuff. I think I'm remembering correctly (it was a long time ago after all) that FE2 had photography or spy missions.
Also, I think people have a rose-tinted memory of planetary landings. They'd need to do more with them than simply landing on a pad on a planet, doing the usual outfitting, repairs and so on, then taking off again as it was in FE2. It was impressive at the time, but as an addition to gameplay? Nope. Honestly...I'm relying on No Man's Sky for the planetary stuff, and I don't think ED should try to compete with it. It was a technically impressive gimmick in FE2. Concentrate on the big black.
Edit: Assuming No Man's Sky makes it onto my hard drive before 2040 that is!
Also, I think people have a rose-tinted memory of planetary landings. They'd need to do more with them than simply landing on a pad on a planet, doing the usual outfitting, repairs and so on, then taking off again as it was in FE2. It was impressive at the time, but as an addition to gameplay? Nope. Honestly...I'm relying on No Man's Sky for the planetary stuff, and I don't think ED should try to compete with it. It was a technically impressive gimmick in FE2. Concentrate on the big black.
Edit: Assuming No Man's Sky makes it onto my hard drive before 2040 that is!
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The biggest thing that's missing when I compare Frontier/FFE to ED is not actually in the game. It's in me. I lack the imagination, the optimism and the belief in a brighter future for humanity that I had back then. I'm way to cynical and jaded these days and so I just don't get engrossed in games like I used to. It's not a fault with the game. It's just growing up.
THE SECRET TO A GREAT GAME IS NOT PRETTY GRAPHICS.
Elite (the original) had very good gameplay with the right mix of combat, trade, missions and upgrades. There were other 3d games that preceded Elite and came after, e.g. 3d Tank Duel and Starion, but the gameplay was monotonous and the same thing happened over and over again because they were no more than arcade game derivatives.
The key to ED is finding the right mix.
Elite (the original) had very good gameplay with the right mix of combat, trade, missions and upgrades. There were other 3d games that preceded Elite and came after, e.g. 3d Tank Duel and Starion, but the gameplay was monotonous and the same thing happened over and over again because they were no more than arcade game derivatives.
The key to ED is finding the right mix.
In my mind ED will never be complete. Once we have walking on ships and basic planetary landing, I want to be able to go to new undiscovered worlds, see new flora and founa. I want to be able to craft my own tools to create a plumbing system for my self-build hamlet on a hill, overlooking weather phenomena unique to that planet. I want to to custom-build my own space ships with self-designed thrusters. I want to slingshot around planets, seamless and smooth transistions to atmosphheric flight. I want to board ships and remove bulkheads to search for illegal cargo hidden in the nooks and crannies of the ship. I want to walk through cities where I cant understand a word they say because the voice acted dialect is so different from where I'm from. I want to get out of my seat, walk to the hangar bay and leave a conda in an F63 Condor while maintaining contact with the co-pilot through voice commands. He has to both understand and appreciate my jokes, too, and laugh in a way it sounds sincere. And I want to throw bananas into a vacuum.
The point being: I can forever continue to imagine new features. And as such some will never consider ED ready for release, and will forever demand free updates. C'est la vie!
Being able to supercruise between stars is not made impossible by the instancing. 'All' they need to do is recognise and code for the possibility, and do the change of instance stuff at the appropriate point on the journey. Given that it is boring game play to do so, and it would require coding to support, I am perfectly content that you cannot do it at the moment. There are many much more important things to address before that should get near the top of the list.
So, how did you like exploring or mining in Elite? Pip-management? Ship loadouts? The actual landing process? Silent running, chaff, heat sinks? Joining political organisations and shaping the power structure of the galaxy? All of that worked the same in the original elite?
I was a Kickstarter backer and at the start was actually hoping for Elite basically upgraded for current machines. When ideas started coming out of FD for discussion in the DDF my thoughts were "hold on, that won't be Elite!" but I wish a lot more had made it into the game - at the moment, is does seem like a refresh of a hybrid somewhere between the original and FFE but as the OP pointed out, with certain features missing, so I should have heeded the old proverb "Be careful what you wish for". We HAVE got supercruise though 
I'll leave that there as there's been plenty said about that elsewhere.
When I was 14 I had weeks of holiday to play and become Elite on the C64. When I was at Uni I had plenty of time to play FFE and become Elite. Both games were impressive for their time and held my interest. Looking back I can see the game play wasn't particularly deep, the trouble is it's arguably no deeper now but with prettier graphics. Even if I didn't have work, wife and kids competing for my time I don't think I would be able to muster the dedication to play for hours at a time day after day performing repetitive tasks.
I also have to say that planetary landings, if they are limited to just that as they were in FFE, will add little to the gameplay for me - it's just a station on the ground and will probably take longer to reach hyperspace point. Beyond that I can se little that could be done if E: D is to remain a space sim.
I'll leave that there as there's been plenty said about that elsewhere. When I was 14 I had weeks of holiday to play and become Elite on the C64. When I was at Uni I had plenty of time to play FFE and become Elite. Both games were impressive for their time and held my interest. Looking back I can see the game play wasn't particularly deep, the trouble is it's arguably no deeper now but with prettier graphics. Even if I didn't have work, wife and kids competing for my time I don't think I would be able to muster the dedication to play for hours at a time day after day performing repetitive tasks.
I also have to say that planetary landings, if they are limited to just that as they were in FFE, will add little to the gameplay for me - it's just a station on the ground and will probably take longer to reach hyperspace point. Beyond that I can se little that could be done if E: D is to remain a space sim.
For all any of us know that's exactly what they are doing. Planetary landings isn't coming out next week and they are constantly updating so I'm sure the current game will get all its little bugs ironed out before they think about releasing any of the he dlc.
Close enough as makes no difference.
Just wondering, did you actually play the original elite?
Old Elite fogies like me would love to see the original ships of ED & the FFE games. Craft like the Mamba, Krait, Shuttle & Transporter while maybe not the best at what they do, would add massively to the lore of todays ED.
You can't tell me that none of these ships are still flying?!! You still see the odd Austin Metro, TR7 & Ford Cortina on the road so why not a few of these ships flying around? There's no (immediate!) need to make them pilotable, just to see them in game would be a real plus for me personally and I'm sure for the immersion crew.
Yes I know FD have limited resources and time but this would be such a "nice to have".
...I'm sure the modding community could create very good representations in no time at all
I agree that in an ideal world, it would be awesome to have every ship, plus many more, each one adhering to its manufacturer's aesthetic, design philosophy, etc.
As you yourself acknowledged, it would take a lot of resources to do that. To look at that in a little more detail, it would be much harder to deliver that today than it was for Frontier/FFE. Back then, the ships were basically carved blocks with some surface detail. To make just one ship for Elite Dangerous, they have to design it from the ground up. Thruster placement, hardpoint placement, articulation of landing gear, 3D modelled cockpit, fully designed interior that fits in the model correctly and makes sense (remember we're going to have to be able to walk around them eventually), position of every module within the ship so it can be targeted, making that module position correspond with wherever it is inside the ship when walking around inside, entrances and exits (airlocks, ramps), canopy and its advantages/disadvantages (Asp vs Hauler cockpit view for example), full on audio design for each ship that changes based on throttle position and thruster usage and a hundred other things (because holy god, look at the magic the audio team have already pulled off with the ships we have). Basically, each and every ship needs a huge amount of work. I'd love to see all the ships and more too, I'm in complete agreement. But it is a huge ask and 30 compared to 45 is pretty impressive, given the difference in work needed from Frontier... I'm going to keep my expectations realistic.
Also while being a taxi driver in a shuttle from orbit to surface on the myriad planets would be hilariously cool, I can almost see the inevitable fallout and forum thread:
where do i buy fsd for shuttle
hi i been playing for a day i really like the game. i got a problem can someone help me. i took a mission to get some beer from the next system. then i saw this really cool ship in the shipyard... i really like the stats and how it looks and so i bought it because it was supercheap!
but i couldnt find anywhere to buy a new fsd for it. i spent most of my money to give it a-rate life support. because i had no fsd i cant jump to the next system to get beer! so i flew down to the planet to try and find an fsd there but none of the cities have it. now i spent all the rest of my money to refuel after flying around the planet. can someone help me pls where can i get fsd for shuttle. also where can i get more fuel im running out and have no money left
As I've said on my blog, the game is missing stuff (most of which we know is coming) but the not knowing when, has us chewing our knuckles with frustration.
The obvious potential for a multitude of content is something that has so many players asking "why isn't that in the game?". It's not criticism, it's cheering on your team. "Go on, score THAT goal!".
The only complaint I would have about Elite is the reliance on randomness, rather than procedural generation. It's fine that each system has unknown signal sources, but they should really be procedural, so that if there are cargo cannisters floating 25Ls from the nav point heading for Founders World, I could tell someone with a cargo scoop and they could go grab them. Or finding a strong signal source, I could fetch my Wing and come back. Currently that couldn't happen, because even if the same player goes back a minute later, the random scenario has been deleted. There's no reason why this couldn't be done, as procedural generation is just random sequences with a fixed start, producing the same result.
Apart from the Thargoids, what's missing from '84 Elite? No much. Ships mostly (Boa, Boulder, Shuttle, Gecko, Transporter, Mamba, Krait, Moray), although we have new ships in spades.
It's the same game improved. And that's about all I ever expected, so I am very happy for the most part.
My higher expectations came from interviews with DB and discussions I sat in on at the launch party, where future plans for the game were outlined. These may be coming, or not. No idea.
Each update brings new toys, new layers and sadly, new complaints. Such is the internet.
The obvious potential for a multitude of content is something that has so many players asking "why isn't that in the game?". It's not criticism, it's cheering on your team. "Go on, score THAT goal!".
The only complaint I would have about Elite is the reliance on randomness, rather than procedural generation. It's fine that each system has unknown signal sources, but they should really be procedural, so that if there are cargo cannisters floating 25Ls from the nav point heading for Founders World, I could tell someone with a cargo scoop and they could go grab them. Or finding a strong signal source, I could fetch my Wing and come back. Currently that couldn't happen, because even if the same player goes back a minute later, the random scenario has been deleted. There's no reason why this couldn't be done, as procedural generation is just random sequences with a fixed start, producing the same result.
Apart from the Thargoids, what's missing from '84 Elite? No much. Ships mostly (Boa, Boulder, Shuttle, Gecko, Transporter, Mamba, Krait, Moray), although we have new ships in spades.
It's the same game improved. And that's about all I ever expected, so I am very happy for the most part.
My higher expectations came from interviews with DB and discussions I sat in on at the launch party, where future plans for the game were outlined. These may be coming, or not. No idea.
Each update brings new toys, new layers and sadly, new complaints. Such is the internet.
Yes actually. Although I far prefer Frontier, which in case you failed to read is what this thread is about.
Of course it does! I want saying that ALL it should be is a pretty remake. Just that if that's all it was I'd be happy. As it stands we aren't TOO far off and have more besides.
All those extras are a bonus.
Couldn't we also (in FE2) 'click' on a star from the cockpit view and jump straight to it. That would make heading in a straight line to the galactic centre a bit easier. I'm sure you could hover the mouse over a star and get basic info...maybe thinking of a different game.
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Your comment specifically mentioned that ED is exactly like 'the original' with added MP. That is just not true, no matter what other people are talking about. And even if you were talking about FFE or FE2, it's still false, as both ED and those games have features the other lacks and very different physics. Saying ED is a remake of either the original or any of the sequels just with MP and nicer graphics is simply . And if you played those games you know that.
Anyway, not really worth a long discussion, just pointing it out.
I don't see Community goals as being an equivalent to hand coded missions, and I have to say I don't agree with your comments about "those old single player experiences". I pretty much always play in Open mode, but I don't do Wings - I'm playing for me, not for anybody else, so while I hope everybody is having a good time, and I'm happy to interact on occasion, its my experience I'm primarily concerned with.
I don't understand why I need to be connecting with everybody else to be having a good time. If I discover a secret conspiracy involving the higher levels of the Federal government with an exciting quest/set of missions, I'm not concerned if I'm the first or the ten thousandth, I'm just here for the fun.
I'm not being deliberately argumentative, but you basically said that you thought my point was invalid, and I reject that, because I think your comments only make sense if your experience and your enjoyment are contingent on that of other players. That's absolutely fair enough, but its a different outlook to my own.
I understand the point that several million people have probably killed the Emperor in Star Wars - The Old Republic, (or rescued a Princess) and some people have a problem with that, but why does it need to be that specific? NPC's and locations can be suitably anonymous and non-specific, the point is to offer some unique experiences to the player as an individual - to offset the eventual loss of appeal of the existing generated missions.
I really wish the bulletin board was more like Frontier, was nice putting a face to a mission and being able to ask questions. ..also I have to say that I find a simple wall of text rather soulless and dull.
I still play Frontier and I have to say in some respects it is better then ED, even now.
I still play Frontier and I have to say in some respects it is better then ED, even now.
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