Feedback from CMDR creator tool (The i am hologram, lore explanation and its placement on UI)

[-VR- Max Factor]

I agree with a lot of what you say, but lore from games is always riddle with inconsistencies - gameplay over lore drives that. I give a game a break for lore compared to say a Star Wars film. However I am struggling big time with 2.3 as well.

I believe the first concept of tele-presence actually came before 2.0 beta. You do not leave your seat but remotely control your turret. I do not think the term was coined then, but this was the first use of the technology. Its just got bigger distances with each 2.x release!

Simon

Well I disagree. Game mechanics should try there hardest to adhere to game lore. I accept that there are some inconsistencies in ED for gameplay reasons, but they are very minor and can easily be glossed over. Telepresence makes a complete mockery of the game lore. This is the main issue. It doesn't just make it a bit more inconsistent, but make make none of it make any sense.

There are tons of posts saying why. Even the last update with losing NPC crew members makes Zero sense. They should be using telepresence into the ship from their home. There is loads of stuff that it invalidates.

I will keep playing, but if I was looking at it now, I would like go what a load of crap, nothing makes any sense and leave it on the shelf.

A strong game lore is vital for a amelia like ED to hold all the elements together in a reasonably coherent way. Get rid of it and it becomes a load of mini games that make little sense. I am beginning to worry about the game and where its headed for the first time in over 2 years.

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1. I am really curious which character editors in a game you know, if you call a creator where you can't affect length of beard "basic". Seriously, show me all those "more than average" creators, because I see games where creation of a character is the main aspect having less advanced editors.

2. Why should be people going to another ship via a lobby explained by lore? Just make it a gameplay necessity that may be erased when space legs arrive, because telepresence and physical holograms don't really make sense.

I agree. Get rid of the telepresence reasoning.

 

[nanite2000]

I will keep playing, but if I was looking at it now, I would like go what a load of crap, nothing makes any sense and leave it on the shelf.

Somehow, I doubt that very much...

 

[Cosmo]

Well I disagree. Game mechanics should try there hardest to adhere to game lore. I accept that there are some inconsistencies in ED for gameplay reasons, but they are very minor and can easily be glossed over. Telepresence makes a complete mockery of the game lore. This is the main issue. It doesn't just make it a bit more inconsistent, but make make none of it make any sense.

There are tons of posts saying why. Even the last update with losing NPC crew members makes Zero sense. They should be using telepresence into the ship from their home. There is loads of stuff that it invalidates.

What if telepresence requires the person to be in space and it's very high-tech so only available on certain ships. Most people in the galaxy aren't pilots and a Sidewinder is expensive to them.

A strong game lore is vital for a amelia like ED to hold all the elements together in a reasonably coherent way. Get rid of it and it becomes a load of mini games that make little sense. I am beginning to worry about the game and where its headed for the first time in over 2 years..

Yes games like Elite should follow certain rules that define the universe. It's just not fun to force people to travel 100+ light years to join another ship. So the solution is telepresence.

I agree. Get rid of the telepresence reasoning.

Why wouldn't it make sense? Do you know 2000 years ago people could not imagine the internet, computers, smartphones, robots?

 

[Tataboj]

This is just wrong. Time spent on this irrational tool instead of a proper WEBCAM avatar projection. Bad FD, very bad and I am disappointed. This will feel very old hat and under used very fast. Better to use the aging tool over realtime on our actual pics and we get older until we die each time. However the lore has never been written and magic is an excuse for anything lately.

You want to play the game for 80 years?

 

[Karl Marx]

The fact that your look isn't permanent (sans clothing, tattoos, etc) is downright idiotic. The fact that you can change your appearance at will, including your body, skin color, etc. makes no sense what so ever.

Also, it's not a friggen mirror, otherwise you wouldn't be able to see it translated into an exterior view looking in at yourself in the cockpit. Nothing about this makes any sense - it's dumb.

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Why wouldn't it make sense? Do you know 2000 years ago people could not imagine the internet, computers, smartphones, robots?

Oh I don't know... maybe because we STILL can't use the market from deep space, we STILL can't communicate in groups from deep space, we STILL can't talk to people in other systems (without being in a wing or being on a friend's list) but we can apparently use telepresence and when we die we instantly have a clone ready to go no matter how far away from home we die?

 

[Tataboj]

This is just wrong. Time spent on this irrational tool instead of a proper WEBCAM avatar projection. Bad FD, very bad and

The fact that your look isn't permanent (sans clothing, tattoos, etc) is downright idiotic. The fact that you can change your appearance at will, including your body, skin color, etc. makes no sense what so ever.

Also, it's not a friggen mirror, otherwise you wouldn't be able to see it translated into an exterior view looking in at yourself in the cockpit. Nothing about this makes any sense - it's dumb.

The holo thing is made so you will change your character while still playing the game through your own eyes. That's it. End of story. You can pretend that you looked like that the whole time.

 

[smiths121]

Well I disagree. Game mechanics should try there hardest to adhere to game lore. I accept that there are some inconsistencies in ED for gameplay reasons, but they are very minor and can easily be glossed over. Telepresence makes a complete mockery of the game lore. This is the main issue. It doesn't just make it a bit more inconsistent, but make make none of it make any sense.

There are tons of posts saying why. Even the last update with losing NPC crew members makes Zero sense. They should be using telepresence into the ship from their home. There is loads of stuff that it invalidates.

I will keep playing, but if I was looking at it now, I would like go what a load of crap, nothing makes any sense and leave it on the shelf.

A strong game lore is vital for a amelia like ED to hold all the elements together in a reasonably coherent way. Get rid of it and it becomes a load of mini games that make little sense. I am beginning to worry about the game and where its headed for the first time in over 2 years.

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I agree. Get rid of the telepresence reasoning.

Well games do try, but gameplay over consitency. I think it is very hard for a game to be consistent over 4 games spanning 30 years of quickly advancing technology. Lave was in Elite run by some bug eyed moster or some such. Independent in FE2/FFE, part of the Alliance in FD. Last bit is explained well by a Elite:Revolution, but you have to agree the retcon of all the aliens vanishing to galaxy 2 for FE2 is a bit more than a minor inconsitency. The Old Worlds becoming an Alliance Enclave is the most mystifying of the changes around that area. The exapnsion of space in the Z axis, moving planets in relation to each other between FFE and FD is another bigige. The entire Thargoid plot of FFE not actually taking place, is another biggie.

Like I said you have to give a game some slack, with 30 years of lore spanning from 8-bit to 64-bit computing. The technical limitations of our window into the game world makes trade-offs inevitable.

A gree get rid of the telepresence reasoning. It is FDs desire to explain the game mechanic within the "lore" that is getting us into this mess. Better to put multi-crew as game mode/option on main menu.


I actually think we agree to some extent coming from different places.

Simon

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

What if telepresence requires the person to be in space and it's very high-tech so only available on certain ships. Most people in the galaxy aren't pilots and a Sidewinder is expensive to them.



Yes games like Elite should follow certain rules that define the universe. It's just not fun to force people to travel 100+ light years to join another ship. So the solution is telepresence.



Why wouldn't it make sense? Do you know 2000 years ago people could not imagine the internet, computers, smartphones, robots?

I have no issues with the instant part. Where did I say that people should have to travel 100s of ly (even so that would only be 4 jumps so not a big issue).

There are much better ways to do it that doesn't destroy the ingame lore. Me and others have already given good examples of how to implement it.

 

[Lianachan]

The whole hollo me thing is ridiculous, unnecessary handwavium. 2.3 seems to have that by the bucketload.

 

[Von Elsner]

Can I project a thin hologram over my fat body? How does that work? Maybe as pilots we all have to be thin to use it?

 

[Winterwalker]

The whole hollo me thing is ridiculous, unnecessary handwavium. 2.3 seems to have that by the bucketload.

Massively disagree. Holo Technologies are classic science fiction fare anyway but for me positioning your avatar outside your cockpit seat .. on your ship (Holo-Me), on another ship (co-pilot seat), in fighter (3D co-ordinate space) and interacting (joy/buttons) is a massive develeopmental step. Hologram retains consistency, you stay on your ship. For me not handwavium .. but an intermediate position. I think it's inspired.

As for free changes of identity? Maybe costs and evil cosmetic surgeons can come later. For now? maybe you get a box-load of "Botox" with your Holo Suite. It's only when you run out, that you'll have to find other ways to change your face.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

Telepresence was first mentioned by Sandro with the ship launched fighters, because we learned that we wouldn't personally be inside them. They're remote controlled. From there it went to holographic commanders who can join other people's ships. Holo Me is a customizable hologram of yourself, then it applies the customization to your "real" character in the seat.

personally I have no issue with holo-me in principle. the tech is pretty much here now for a holographic image. I WOULD rather the main meat and potatoes character creation be in the main menu however and locked down perhaps with a time period where we can dabble but eventually we have to apply it.... then use the holo me for tweaking, clothes/body art etc.

I have no problem with the telepresence in SLFs.... its a remote controlled drone with a range limit, which is just fine, and the character in the ship for "reasons"..... BUT given the lore was already written that it has a range of 3km or so, then it does not work for multicrew.

imo FD should either not mention it, and it be in there with no game story OR we choose to meet up like we do with wings and use our character OR just implement ships crew and if we want instant action we just use our mates crew person..... imo this is a far better solution.

 

[Cosmo]

I have no problem with the telepresence in SLFs.... its a remote controlled drone with a range limit, which is just fine, and the character in the ship for "reasons"..... BUT given the lore was already written that it has a range of 3km or so, then it does not work for multicrew.

imo FD should either not mention it, and it be in there with no game story OR we choose to meet up like we do with wings and use our character OR just implement ships crew and if we want instant action we just use our mates crew person..... imo this is a far better solution..

Then adjust the range in the lore or in-game. I think all that can be done, not one or the other. When we can walk, meeting with your real body should have advantages over holographic telepresence.

 

[Exiton]

The more I think about this "holo-me" the less sense it holds.

Developers say "it's a mirror".

But if I'm a real person sitting in my ship - how the heck can I change my gender, age and outlook in an instant?!

And if I'm a hologram piloting my ship - why can't I instantly remotely connect to any of my ships that I own?! I mean my friends can, but I, the ship owner, can not!

And why for god's sake I can't remotely cash in bounties? Why do I have to go to the station? Can't I connect to it remotely?

And also remotely take mission that do not require goods delivery, like scans or ships' destruction?

And this introduction of instantaneous inter-system communications also makes current bounty system completely senseless!

 

[Winterwalker]

BUT given the lore was already written that it has a range of 3km or so, then it does not work for multicrew.

I think it's a 30km range. The reason reason is instancing bubbles .. the lore might be a security thing so your fighter can be identified by authorities if conmits a crime. Bank of Zaonce just has to force fighter builders to install a self-destruct if they want a license to sell, and if fighters are too small to carry identity transponder.

If they're too small to carry ID transponder then reasonably fighters are too small for inter-stellar comms too and fighters connect to the ship by radio. Telepresence inter-stellar, still works though; the ship (which can carry long range comms equipment) just relays any TP signal on to the fighter?

 

[Cosmo]

The more I think about this "holo-me" the less sense it holds.

Developers say "it's a mirror".

But if I'm a real person sitting in my ship - how the heck can I change my gender, age and outlook in an instant?!

I'll try to answer your questions.

Well it's the year 3303... the Holo-Me shows a holographic version that you can tweak, then it applies that onto your real body. Making players wait 10 minutes cause immurshion would be silly.

And if I'm a hologram piloting my ship - why can't I instantly remotely connect to any of my ships that I own?! I mean my friends can, but I, the ship owner, can not!

Because it's expensive technology and your friends cannot pilot your ship.

And why for god's sake I can't remotely cash in bounties? Why do I have to go to the station? Can't I connect to it remotely? And also remotely take mission that do not require goods delivery, like scans or ships' destruction?

Because stations want to verify that you really did the deed so you have to dock.

 

[Exiton]

I'll try to answer your questions.

Well it's the year 3303... the Holo-Me shows a holographic version that you can tweak, then it applies that onto your real body. Making players wait 10 minutes cause immurshion would be silly.

Do you mean to tell that nobody ages or dies any more?

Because it's expensive technology and your friends cannot pilot your ship.

And what about ME? Why can't I pilot my own ship remotely?

Because stations want to verify that you really did the deed so you have to dock.

Verify what? The stored data that I might as well submit remotely? It doesn't matter how the data is transmitted, it's either genuine or not.

At least you are not trying to argue the bounty system. Utter garbage now IMHO.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Then adjust the range in the lore or in-game. I think all that can be done, not one or the other. When we can walk, meeting with your real body should have advantages over holographic telepresence.

You are not getting it. Increasing the range destroys the ingame lore completely and turns into a total mess. There are already inconsistencies that I can gloss over for gameplay reasons, but something that destroys the already ingame lore is just silly where there are better ways of implementing the feature that doesn't.

 

[Cosmo]

Do you mean to tell that nobody ages or dies any more?

In 3303 people still die from natural and unnatural causes. Life-expectancy has doubled or more with cybernetic and bionic upgrades. You know old celebrities superficially look younger than they are due to plastic surgery, but internally... they age like other people.

And what about ME? Why can't I pilot my own ship remotely?

Nobody can pilot their ship remotely, except ship launched fighters. Would be nice though.

Verify what? The stored data that I might as well submit remotely? It doesn't matter how the data is transmitted, it's either genuine or not.

Verify that the pilot did the mission. You know like how a company or bank wants people to come in person for certain things.

You are not getting it. Increasing the range destroys the ingame lore completely and turns into a total mess. There are already inconsistencies that I can gloss over for gameplay reasons, but something that destroys the already ingame lore is just silly where there are better ways of implementing the feature that doesn't.

That's your opinion. Lots of Star Wars games have certain technical limitations that are not on-par with the lore. I prefer it to be consistent though.

 

[Winterwalker]

But if I'm a real person sitting in my ship - how the heck can I change my gender, age and outlook in an instant?!

Shed loads of Botox
(cut the devs a little slack on character designing? It's intermediate, developmental stuff and in any case restrictions on avatar changes can still come later)

And if I'm a hologram piloting my ship - why can't I instantly remotely connect to any of my ships that I own?! I mean my friends can, but I, the ship owner, can not!

You can't. Only ship owner can pilot the ship and when you're ship owner you're 'there' (even if you can change your face). Health and safety, bio-metric keys to the ignition, holograms are not authorised to remote pilot hyperspace capable ships.

And why for god's sake I can't remotely cash in bounties? Why do I have to go to the station? Can't I connect to it remotely?

Security. What if someone nicked your ID? They could cash in your bounties and steal your money, that you earned, by radio link-up.

And also remotely take mission that do not require goods delivery, like scans or ships' destruction?

Again security. If the target is monitoring and watching the missions boards, they immediately know there's a destriuction mission on them! (they won't hang around). Even worse they might take action against the person who put a bounty on them. Missions are (generally) a face to face thing, because more secure.

this introduction of instantaneous inter-system communications also makes current bounty system completely senseless!

Negative? As above. You need to bring proof of destruction, and a secure way to exchange payment.