Fer de lance and expected python nerf

[Quineloe]

Copypasta? Maybe the slaves making refueling cheaper?

Copy paste error from which ship? I'm not aware of one that uses these numbers

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I think that T7 running costs might be a copy-paste bug from T6. T7 has a fuel tank of 32T the same as a Python has. However, in T7's refuelling costs are 3-6k, whereas you need 120k to refuel a Python.

Repair costs seem also to be off, exactly the same as for T6.

I have to say it's incredibly gamistic to make fuel more expensive because your ship is bigger.

1T of fuel should be 1T of fuel-

 

[Aleksej]

Hello,

You are right. And now tell me how much money you have to invest into a Python to able to do all those things? For the money you have to put into the ship to be able to do this it should destroy a ship to costs like 40 times less. Agree? Thats like comparing a Bugatti with a Mini cooper mate. Try to be reasonable please

What you propose is - 1 ship to master them all. This is very wrong and makes the game boring. What's the purpose of having any other ship? Is it interesting to play if everyone flies the same ship because it outclasses all the rest?

And do you really believe that a much larger ship than a Viper/Sidewinder/Cobra should not have any problems in outmanoeuvring the smaller ships?

Your comparison is absolutely wrong. Bugatti is a car that is built for high speeds on the motorways and you would never use it to go to the nearby store for shopping, whereas you would use Mini for that purposes.

 

[Benaron]

My word, what a lot of melodrama over something so trivial.

Hey! Internet spaceships IZ SERIOUS BIZNESS.

 

[m4th3m4t1c14n]

anything in an online game is subject to change. sometimes buffs, sometimes not.

Of course. This isn't my first online game, so I certainly realize that. However, just because something is subject to change doesn't mean it should be changed. There are good arguments on both sides of this issue, and I agree with many of them. I'm not saying buff it or nerf it. I'm simply saying that it is a huge letdown for everyone who has worked so hard to get this ship and have it (it their eyes) essentially ruined. I can certainly understand if this disappointment, or the expectation of future disappointments, cause them to seek their fun elsewhere. I've experienced this firsthand multiple times in other games, so it's not surprising. I always do wonder how this sort of thing isn't discovered during the extensive testing though.

 

[jgm]

I have to say it's incredibly gamistic to make fuel more expensive because your ship is bigger.

1T of fuel should be 1T of fuel-

I have to admit that this surprised me, too. Suspect that it's indicative of someone mucking up the fuel consumption calculations for larger hull mass ships.

I'd have expected fuel usage to be directly proportionate to hull mass for a given jump distance and FSD class/category rather than have Cr/T change depending on your ship. It also makes all of the in-space refuelling that people have talked about very problematic.

 

[zaccheus44]

Yes... lets nerf everything. Lets make this great grind an even greater waste of time. It does not matter that the Python is the most expensive warship in the game. Lets make it as slow as freighters. Lets nerf and balance everything to the point that all ships are of the same strength, all trade routes have the same profit and all weapons are equally useless and pricey. I hate stupid MMOs.

Exactly. I was trying to make this argument in the great gimballed experiment. Rock paper and scissors in space is not interesting. Better ships should be .....better. let's just mull that over a second. Atm, I have no fear flying around in my asp...until I see a cmdr in a python, then I up my throttle a little bit to try and get to the station a bit faster. PLEASE keep that fear in the game. Some things should be intimidating, if not the python please add something that will be.

 

[Aleksej]

Exactly. I was trying to make this argument in the great gimballed experiment. Rock paper and scissors in space is not interesting. Better ships should be .....better. let's just mull that over a second. Atm, I have no fear flying around in my asp...until I see a cmdr in a python, then I up my throttle a little bit to try and get to the station a bit faster. PLEASE keep that fear in the game. Some things should be intimidating, if not the python please add something that will be.

The listed changes would not make Python the ship that is easily destroyed by any other ship. It will remain one of the most dangerous ships.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Speaking as a software engineer, if I called something 'release ready' that was in this state, with as many broken bits, empty or blatantly incomplete bits, to the point where the game becomes incredibly tedious within a week of play, at the very least I'd get an official warning, if not fired for sheer stupidity.

Cool story, bro. I am sure your work ethos has resulted in many fine products selling 300.000 copies in the first week, receiving very positive reviews with active communities of thousands of people discussing it. With your level of succes I can even forgive you for the indecency of anonymously suggesting people you've never met are bad at their job and insinuating they have bad intentions. Keep it up, you rock drenzul!

 

[Bertak]

The listed changes would not make Python the ship that is easily destroyed by any other ship. It will remain one of the most dangerous ships.

33% is huge. It will be a sitting duck. It will be nothing more than a trading ship with better guns than a type 7. They should rename the game Elite Trading

 

[Toscaner]

Exactly. I was trying to make this argument in the great gimballed experiment. Rock paper and scissors in space is not interesting. Better ships should be .....better. let's just mull that over a second. Atm, I have no fear flying around in my asp...until I see a cmdr in a python, then I up my throttle a little bit to try and get to the station a bit faster. PLEASE keep that fear in the game. Some things should be intimidating, if not the python please add something that will be.

i too wish to see bigger ships being tougher, not to fly them, but to have challenges and danger. i hope something else will be introduced or rebalanced to create that danger. but i can see how the python was the only ship to go for and that's generally a bad approach, as it's too much vertical progession.

 

[Roadblock]

I'm surprised more people didn't look more closely at the numbers Mike posted. The ship is getting a ~27% hit in pitch rate (see the Python thruster post for details).

 

[Jorlin]

to see how BIG that shield is at the moment:
An A6 Shieldcell doesn't even fill one blue ring...

On other ships, a shieldcell "B" one level lower than the shieldgenerator almost fills the whole shield

 

[Aleksej]

33% is huge. It will be a sitting duck. It will be nothing more than a trading ship with better guns than a type 7. They should rename the game Elite Trading

That's just ridiculous. 33% from the toughest shields in the game? Python will still have the second toughest shields in the game. This can only make them more balanced. Not to mention that if shield cell banks are left as they are you only 1 of them will be required to recharge the shields of the Python, which means that if I have 2 A6 shield cell banks I will be able to recharge them twice as much as now.

 

[Maxwellou]

The problem actually is that the python is multi-purpose but was clearly seen by everyone (and me) as multi-purpose ship that hasn't the same level on everything but has a better combat possibility than trade or explore possibility.
And if everyone (and me) saw that, we honestly thought that it was what you (developpers) intended: The python as a combat ship before anything else.
As a result when you decide to "nerf" what makes this ship good in combat, it obviously makes us wonder "well then... What is his purpose ?".

In my opinion, if the main probleme was "too good at everything", I would have liked losing "just" 10-15% of shields, 5-10% of maneuvrability and the second class 6 internal compartment being removed or downed to a class 5 or 4. Slightly less shielded, slightly less maneuverable, and a cargo capacity reduced by a lot. Still possible to do trades in it, but without being superior to the t7 for example.

That would be something I could live with
But then again, I'm not pretending to know how to do your job. So I still trust you on that !

Otherwise, don't worry, after a while, I'll be able to live with that nerf.
But this whole case makes us wonder what you intended for the python in the beginning ? Because for me, I really thought you saw it as a Fighter before anything else

 

[TheEponymousBob]

33% is huge. It will be a sitting duck. It will be nothing more than a trading ship with better guns than a type 7. They should rename the game Elite Trading

The people who write and test the mechanics don't seem to think so, so with respect I'll put more weight on their expert opinions than on our suppositions based on incomplete knowledge.

When the changes go live, try it out. If it turns out disastrous, they can always roll it back.

 

[Toscaner]

Of course. This isn't my first online game, so I certainly realize that. However, just because something is subject to change doesn't mean it should be changed. There are good arguments on both sides of this issue, and I agree with many of them. I'm not saying buff it or nerf it. I'm simply saying that it is a huge letdown for everyone who has worked so hard to get this ship and have it (it their eyes) essentially ruined. I can certainly understand if this disappointment, or the expectation of future disappointments, cause them to seek their fun elsewhere. I've experienced this firsthand multiple times in other games, so it's not surprising. I always do wonder how this sort of thing isn't discovered during the extensive testing though.

yes there's dissapointment and it's understandable to a degree. but i wouldn't say it's ruined, it actually creates more choices and people may start to think about other ships to fly instead.

about things being missed in tests. well, errors have happened, and devs admitted on several occassions they have made such errors and overlooked certain things, in the heat of the struggle for a release. that this is not optimal is obvious, but what do they get for their honesty? name calling, smart-arsing and hate. at least from some posters.

i'm prepared for more rebalancing, when i think about all the ships that will be added in the next months.

 

[Bertak]

That's just ridiculous. 33% from the toughest shields in the game? Python will still have the second toughest shields in the game. This can only make them more balanced. Not to mention that if shield cell banks are left as they are you only 1 of them will be required to recharge the shields of the Python, which means that if I have 2 A6 shield cell banks I will be able to recharge them twice as much as now.

If it was just shields i'd agree and could understand it but it is getting speed and maneuverability nerfed also. It will be a totally different ship and not worth the running costs.

 

[zaccheus44]

What you propose is - 1 ship to master them all. This is very wrong and makes the game boring. What's the purpose of having any other ship? Is it interesting to play if everyone flies the same ship because it outclasses all the rest?

And do you really believe that a much larger ship than a Viper/Sidewinder/Cobra should not have any problems in outmanoeuvring the smaller ships?

Your comparison is absolutely wrong. Bugatti is a car that is built for high speeds on the motorways and you would never use it to go to the nearby store for shopping, whereas you would use Mini for that purposes.

No, what you are claiming he proposes is a strawman. Is the python the best trader? Is it the best explorer? Is it the best in combat?

It definately isn't the best trader nor explorer. For the time being it's the best in combat but it's the only large sized ship built with combat in mind as its primary purpose. We actually only have three combat vessels atm, thw eagle, the viper and the python. The viper is clearly superior to the eagle, so should the viper get nerfed? This makes no sense, there will always be a best, that's just the way life works. There maybe other combat ships pending release that are perhaps better, or suited for more specialized roles, but sense they don't exist it makes sense the only large combat vessel is superior in combat to everything else available, because it's the only one and its huge. If anything the viper and eagle need to be a bit more agile and a bit quicker, atm I feel like all the ships are a little too sluggish especially the superiority fighters...seriously the viper, thw med weight fighter turns just as well as the cobra...an all purpose vessel...do the devs even think about the purpose of the vessels when they give them stats

 

[Aleksej]

If it was just shields i'd agree and could understand it but it is getting speed and maneuverability nerfed also. It will be a totally different ship and not worth the running costs.

Why not? You need only several seconds of maintained fire to fry Eagle or Sidewinder, several seconds to take out Cobras or Vipers shields. Meaning that all what is required is to stay that little time in firing position. I doubt that it is going to be difficult. So I do not see any issues. A large ship being as manoeuvrable as all smaller ships is an issue though.

 

[Kremator]

Isn't it funny how every game turns into a whiners paradise. Devs just do what you think is right. Just think about the consequences for the whole of the game.