Fer de lance and expected python nerf

[Zeeman]

...



I'm sure the ships will need many more balancing passes and I disagree with the notion that a ship costing less than a single gun on a python should be able to stand a realistic chance against it and certainly not be able to obliterate it within seconds...

I'm not a fan of "Nerfing" the Python, but just to put my Devil's Advocate hat on...

I've seen posts of a child sumo wrestler vs an adult sumo wrestler, and other such comparisons...

I see it more like this...

Spoiler

Sidewinder

vs
Python

Not only that, but one shot!!!

Anyway, I don't want the Python touched (and I don't even fly it - I got interdicted by an Elite Python las tnight, and it's the first NPC challenge I have had in a long time. Int he end, I bugged out, because a cargo hold full of Rares in my Cobra, my experimental weapons layout, and the 30k bounty meant it wasn't worth the effort [the shields are a pig to get down!!! And I only had a single fixed c1 beam], but it was a heck of a fight, and the first time I have sustained hull damage that was not my own fault in weeks...), just wanted point out that there are plenty of real world example of even a human being able to take out a tank, which, is even less of a "balanced" fight than a sidewinder vs a Python.

Should it be possible?

Yes. Should it be a near impossible task that requires a heap of skill, and a touch of luck? You bet.

Z...

 

[remosito]

but it wont change that i AM right...

it's just your personal opinion mate. there's no right or wrong with those.

for my countries cultural background. that was borderline by mike. for US pc standards that was probably inacceptable.

for my personal stance on such things, I applaud it and way,way more game devs should do that.

btw. the guy mike responded to said he was okay with it and regretted having lost his own cool in the post mike replied to.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

I'm not a fan of "Nerfing" the Python, but just to put my Devil's Advocate hat on...

I've seen posts of a child sumo wrestler vs an adult sumo wrestler, and other such comparisons...

I see it more like this...

Spoiler

Sidewinder

vs
Python

Not only that, but one shot!!!

Anyway, I don't want the Python touched (and I don't even fly it - I got interdicted by an Elite Python las tnight, and it's the first NPC challenge I have had in a long time. Int he end, I bugged out, because a cargo hold full of Rares in my Cobra, my experimental weapons layout, and the 30k bounty meant it wasn't worth the effort [the shields are a pig to get down!!! And I only had a single fixed c1 beam], but it was a heck of a fight, and the first time I have sustained hull damage that was not my own fault in weeks...), just wanted point out that there are plenty of real world example of even a human being able to take out a tank, which, is even less of a "balanced" fight than a sidewinder vs a Python.

Should it be possible?

Yes. Should it be a near impossible task that requires a heap of skill, and a touch of luck? You bet.

Z...

thise rockets are designed specifically for the purpose taking down tanks.

the sidey most certainly is not made specifically to take down pythons. as such I would consider your analogy not only flawed. but straight up wrong.

As for your story about the NPC python. imo that is not indicative that python does not deserve a nerf. just that AI in general really needs a massive buff. in your cobra loadout, any halfway non-noob npc pirate in a viper, warcobra,warasp should eat you for breakfast!

 

[Raz0rking]

I disagree, I don't think they were right at all.

This belief that being a customer gives one the right to be abusive and obnoxious without consequence, where the "professional" is expected to take said abuse as part of their job is just disgusting.

I found your post refreshing and appropriate considering the context, regardless of whether you meant it in jest or not.

so..shut up an take everything without saying a word? you sir, you are full of shi...
We paid for the...licence (it aint a hardware anymore sadly. how far did we come?) to play the game. So we have all right to complain about EVERYTHING we see fit.
Also the people complaining about the python beeing to strong have the right to do so.

 

[Ian Skippy]

so..shut up an take everything without saying a word? you sir, you are full of shi...
We paid for the...licence (it aint a hardware anymore sadly. how far did we come?) to play the game. So we have all right to complain about EVERYTHING we see fit.
Also the people complaining about the python beeing to strong have the right to do so.

Hmmm, if only there would be a middle ground between being an abusive bunghole and shutting up while taking everything...

 

[Raz0rking]

Hmmm, if only there would be a middle ground between being an abusive bunghole and shutting up while taking everything...

oh...thoze feelz.
Abusive behavior is such a nice vague therm. So much room for interpretation.

 

[sqzbox1]

Holy Crap! If that is what they are going to do to the Python then I'll not be getting one. I had planned on saving for it but those figures change it too much. Speed - down. Shields - down, Speed - way down. Acceleration/thrusters - down. Nope. Don't want it anymore.

 

[remosito]

Holy Crap! If that is what they are going to do to the Python then I'll not be getting one. I had planned on saving for it but those figures change it too much. Speed - down. Shields - down, Speed - way down. Acceleration/thrusters - down. Nope. Don't want it anymore.

I am having the exact oposite reaction actually!

Looks like it will be time to give her another chance!

 

[Predatar]

It would be really nice, if while their "balancing" the Python, they could also fix the weird head position that sits well forward of the body, and also the buggy shadows inside of it. Watch the shadows on the dash next time you're in supercruise. They go all blurry, and move about as you rotate your head.

[video=youtube_share;jTo2ZmM6tS0]http://youtu.be/jTo2ZmM6tS0[/video]

 

[Rall]

Don't ever change Mr. Evens, I much prefer the "tell it like it is approach" and we always know where we are, keep it up!

I'm starting a Mike Evans fan club.

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

...but if I see a python when ever I return to populated systems with cmdr in front of his name my heart rate goes up...I really hope they don't take that away with the nerf bat, so I try to fight to keep the python strong, nerfs to a min and if things need balancing it should mostly come in the form of buffs in my opinion

Well - all I can say is that there's always going to be a best ship at a role and much of the current balance will have to be reiterated over and over again as more features and ships are added. Actually I hope the game will be in a constant flux - it keeps it interesting and I assume it will have to be this way.

I have to agree with BigBadBs post to a large extent. This is largely unknown territory and testing hypotheses will probably stay part of the game for its entire existence.

I'm not a fan of "Nerfing" the Python, but just to put my Devil's Advocate hat on...

I've seen posts of a child sumo wrestler vs an adult sumo wrestler, and other such comparisons...

I see it more like this...

Spoiler

Sidewinder

vs
Python

Not only that, but one shot

I like the one shot approach - just the other way around :

Spoiler

[video=youtube;Fdt40v882Dw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fdt40v882Dw[/video]

Yes. Should it be a near impossible task that requires a heap of skill, and a touch of luck? You bet.

Z...

That's the point - it's not near impossible at all - you can fit a viper capable of taking down a python in seconds for a fraction of the price of a python - now add wings to the equation and reconsider how long it will take a wing of rocket vipers to take down a python after its shields were reduced by 33%.

Personally, I concluded that using vipers would be overkill - sidewinders will suffice - no touch of luck or skill involved.

 

[TheEponymousBob]

I disagree, I don't think they were right at all.

This belief that being a customer gives one the right to be abusive and obnoxious without consequence, where the "professional" is expected to take said abuse as part of their job is just disgusting.

I found your post refreshing and appropriate considering the context, regardless of whether you meant it in jest or not.

Well said.

 

[xslam]

the sidey most certainly is not made specifically to take down pythons. as such I would consider your analogy not only flawed. but straight up wrong.

Then we needed something like RPG-29 from real world to burst up python-like crafts.

How about a measure that cannot be tanked neither by armor nor shield but by evading, a cheap dumbfire torpedo?

 

[DYSEQTA]

Hmmm, if only there would be a middle ground between being an abusive bunghole and shutting up while taking everything...

Yeah I believe that grey are might be called "normal behaviour".

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

It would be really nice, if while their "balancing" the Python, they could also fix the weird head position that sits well forward of the body, and also the buggy shadows inside of it. Watch the shadows on the dash next time you're in supercruise. They go all blurry, and move about as you rotate your head.

Spoiler

[video=youtube_share;jTo2ZmM6tS0]http://youtu.be/jTo2ZmM6tS0[/video]

Yes - it's especially annoying in the rift. I just hope FD add an alternative as a heavy fixed weapons platform soon.

 

[malicious1]

ok so they introduce the FDL and then same as with python ,,,,forum whines reach a roar...and then FDL is nerfed...... they went way overboard on the nerf it will now have crap speed crap turn and a much smaller shield. python had a role...it is a gunship.

now its a targetship


all it needed was a 10% damage reduction and a 5% turn rate

 

[InMemoriamSirocco]

Sadly, the pvp crowd has already whined enough about it, so the devs already stated here on the forums that it will be nerfed. mobility will be greatly reduced, making it a sitting duck waiting to be shot.

Thanks, whiners, for ruining yet another awesome ship. *slow-clap*

Hope y'all are really proud of yourselves.

 

[Rivka]

I don't think cost should be the only deciding factor in what ship kills what, in a game like this. Elite has some skill elements in play, and a highly skilled player in an "inferior" ship should be able to take down a less skilled player in a "superior" ship.

I think it adds class, and a certain degree of "personality" when a ship has weaknesses.If you know your rear is a big blind spot in a big ship, you take steps to keep ships off your backside. If you turn like a hippo, you know you need to juice up your defenses to withstand a small ship from out-turning you and chewing you up.

To drag in the ever-wonderful RL analogy, lets take an infantryman vs. a tank. Open ground, standard weapons, both see each other, a tank will shred an an infantryman before the grunt can take a step. This doesn't mean that tanks are totally immune from the footsloggers though. Give the infantryman an anti-tank missile, set him up to take a flank/backside shot, and the tank will get roasted before he can do anything. Problem is, that ATGM infantryman is going to be kinda useless against other grunts, will be lots slower on the move (dem things be HEAVY), and if he misses his one shot, well....splat.

Same as a Viper vs. Python. The Viper has to position himself right, and bring weapons like derpfires to drop the bigger ship. If he messes it up and gets in the Python's firing arc, splat. If he meets up against an Eagle instead of a Python, splat.

If we get stuck in the "Most expensive ship is a pwnmobile" thinking, Elite will get boring fast. I won't be various ships out there flying around, it will be whatever X FotM is, with the most min/maxxed weapon and module build. Every other ship class will get left by the wayside, in the rush to whatever the "best" ship is at the moment. No thanks, I play enough cawwadoody style games like that as is.

 

[Raz0rking]

Thanks, whiners, for ruining yet another awesome ship. *slow-clap*

Hope y'all are really proud of yourselves.

yes sir, they are.

 

[malicious1]

I don't think cost should be the only deciding factor in what ship kills what, in a game like this. Elite has some skill elements in play, and a highly skilled player in an "inferior" ship should be able to take down a less skilled player in a "superior" ship.

I think it adds class, and a certain degree of "personality" when a ship has weaknesses.If you know your rear is a big blind spot in a big ship, you take steps to keep ships off your backside. If you turn like a hippo, you know you need to juice up your defenses to withstand a small ship from out-turning you and chewing you up.

To drag in the ever-wonderful RL analogy, lets take an infantryman vs. a tank. Open ground, standard weapons, both see each other, a tank will shred an an infantryman before the grunt can take a step. This doesn't mean that tanks are totally immune from the footsloggers though. Give the infantryman an anti-tank missile, set him up to take a flank/backside shot, and the tank will get roasted before he can do anything. Problem is, that ATGM infantryman is going to be kinda useless against other grunts, will be lots slower on the move (dem things be HEAVY), and if he misses his one shot, well....splat.

Same as a Viper vs. Python. The Viper has to position himself right, and bring weapons like derpfires to drop the bigger ship. If he messes it up and gets in the Python's firing arc, splat. If he meets up against an Eagle instead of a Python, splat.

If we get stuck in the "Most expensive ship is a pwnmobile" thinking, Elite will get boring fast. I won't be various ships out there flying around, it will be whatever X FotM is, with the most min/maxxed weapon and module build. Every other ship class will get left by the wayside, in the rush to whatever the "best" ship is at the moment. No thanks, I play enough cawwadoody style games like that as is.

remember ww2 folks tanks were extremely susceptible too infantry convol/b

and tanks are not Armored uniformly either usually where you apply the explosive counts

role ship have roles and weaknesses

when groups can be used you will start to really see there roles start to shine

 

[Xanador]

I think not, but I think maybe you need to learn to fly if that is what you think....

it will still be a force to be reckoned with in the hand of somebody who knows what he's doing. But it ain't gonna turn a noob into a steamrolling everything demigod..

... and before you ask, nope, not an ace meself, barely beyond sucky. but glad they'll tune the iwin button down

We will see how the changes will work, but the "learn to fly" argument is not fair in my opinion. Even bad pilots will easily hit the python after the changes (even before) regardless of the python's pilot skill , so its defence is mainly based on shield strength.