Fighting Chimpanzees

What exactly causes Chimpanzees to fight in the Game? I do have 2 adult males. At first they fought. Luckily only once to determine who is the Alpha. Then they were peaceful. When I've introduced a new female after some Time they fought again. Thought it would be over after that again. But since then they fight, then there's a Break for some Time, then they fight again. Will there always be Fights in a Group with multiple males or is there something I'm doing wrong?

Also how realistic is it for Chimpanzees in the same Group to fight that often?
 
Can't speak to the first half of your thread as I think I've only had single male groups in my parks but I suspect it is a periodic thing where they will test to see if the dominance should change. As for real life accuracy, if anything they aren't fighting nearly enough and in real life it would also be female vs female and female vs male etc. Chimps have highly flexible social hierarchies with quite nasty fighting happening even in relatively stable groups (less in bonobo society that tends to rely on sex for social bonding more).

If you are interested in following in captivity primate behaviour then I'd check out 'monkey world' tv clips. The series had various names but is based at the monkey world primate rescue centre in the UK, one of my favourite zoological collections as they are set up to rescue apes and monkeys from the pet trade plus do crucial work on some conservation breeding and release programmes working with in-country partners.
 
I think in real life a younger male would continue to challenge a dominant periodically through out its life as do all animals really. I seen a documentary a long time ago about a guy who kept a pack of wolves. The weaker male fought with the dominant many times through the yrs before finally becoming dominant. Once the pecking order was reinstated each time no more fighting.
 
I think in real life a younger male would continue to challenge a dominant periodically through out its life as do all animals really. I seen a documentary a long time ago about a guy who kept a pack of wolves. The weaker male fought with the dominant many times through the yrs before finally becoming dominant. Once the pecking order was reinstated each time no more fighting.
Good to know that it seems to be realistic that Way. Just hope they won't hurt each other too often.
Funfact: Wolf Alpha Status does only work that Way in captive Packs where the Wolves aren't related to each other
 
So in-game, is there a difference between when animals have territorial scuffles to establish the order and when animals legit want to tear each other to shreds?
 
I think the best solution would be (in-line with what tigris said) to differentiate between types of fights, and make some types of fights not result in injury. As Cocolori pointed out, chimpanzees fight constantly, both in the wild and in captivity, for a variety of reasons, but often the fights don't lead to any serious injury and are a way of blowing off steam. In a game situation this becomes complicated to manage, as in real life vets would still be called to check everyone out after any serious blow-ups, but they wouldn't always sedate the animal and take it away (that would only occur if, say, someone lost a finger or broke a bone). In-game we don't want our vets running around every time there's a fight.
 
Yea maybe just have the vets stand by the gates and do an animation of them going through their checkboard to symbolize them checking on the chimps and seeing that they're all good
 
I posted a similar question in the general forum. My understanding, both from reading about captive chimps and from the zoopedia, is that it should be possible to have multiple males in a group, and in fact multiple males may create a more cohesive group dynamic overall. I'm sure a certain amount of infighting will occur with both sexes in the wild and in zoos, but if serious injuries occurred from this fighting on a regular basis in real zoos, then they probably wouldn't recommend the large groups with multiple members of both sexes that they do.

I linked this paper in my other post.

Does group size matter? Captive chimpanzee (Pan troglodytes) behavior as a function of group size and composition

It's definitely true that animals have different behavioral dynamics in captivity than in the wild, since the opportunity to form bachelor herds and for young adults to disperse will be unavailable in captive groups. This is an issue with wolves, where the behavior of captive wolf packs is really different than what one sees in the wild, where young adults eventually leave their natal packs to find mates and become the breeding pair (the term "alpha pair" is no longer favored by wolf biologists) of their own pack. Wild wolves don't challenge their parents for status. But in captivity, young adults can't disperse (unless the zoo removes them at 2-3 years of age), and groups of unrelated adults were often tossed together, hence the outdated concept that wolves are always naturally competing for status and only the "most dominant" personalities prevail.

However, captive chimps have a different dynamic, and the dangerous fighting for alpha male status thing in the game doesn't seem realistic, and it defies what the in-game zoopedia says about sex composition of chimp groups as well.

I sort of get the impression the behavioral program for western chimps in the game is simply a copy of the one for mandrils and gorillas, unfortunately, and is not reflective of the species' real behavior in captivity or in the wild.
 
However, captive chimps have a different dynamic, and the dangerous fighting for alpha male status thing in the game doesn't seem realistic, and it defies what the in-game zoopedia says about sex composition of chimp groups as well.

I sort of get the impression the behavioral program for western chimps in the game is simply a copy of the one for mandrils and gorillas, unfortunately, and is not reflective of the species' real behavior in captivity or in the wild.
I think the Western Chimpanzee is even the least aggressive Chimpanzee Subspecies, so I think they should at least not get hurt that often. Just read a bit about their Social Behavior. Chimpanzees don't only determine their Rank in the Group with fighting
During these encounters, displays of aggression are generally preferred over physical attacks. - Source: Wikipedia
The males develop a pronounced Rank Structure. They use different Rituals like loud Screams, drumming on Treetrunks, Demonstrations of Power - they shake Branches or throw Rocks - and demonstrative fast running and jumping. - Source: German Wikipedia, translated to English by myself
 
This is correct, and it makes sense that a social species with dominance hierarchies would have less dangerous ways of establishing who is strongest and most likely to win a real fight precisely so they aren't constantly injuring themselves.

I reported the issue in the issue tracker, since the behavior is at odds with what is stated for the species in the zoopedia, as well as being at odds with how male chimps generally interact in real life captive colonies. In chimps, the males tend to stay in their natal groups, while the females are the ones who disperse, in fact.

I am guessing it's either a bug, or a mistake in programming that can (hopefully) be addressed in a future patch. Annoying to not be able to keep them the way they are actually kept in real zoos.
 
I'm a bit confused. How does Breeding work for them in the Game. Can only the Alpha male breed or also the others? When I compare Mates, it shows that they should be able to breed normally but the Chimpanzee that I wanted to breed, only bred after I've temporarily moved the other males to another Enclosure
 
In real life, the dominant male chimps do their best to limit access of other males to the best females, and they are often successful, so they get more chances to breed with the "best" females than other males (interesting bit of trivia--male chimps prefer older females, as chimps do not have menopause and the older females have greater success rate with offspring being more experienced as mothers and having more status themselves. That's another way the game gets it wrong, as it makes female chimps sterile when they get old, and this doesn't actually happen).

However, as I understand it, the females have their own agenda and don't always cooperate, since it behooves them not to put all their "eggs" in one basket genetically. That's why their breeding system is considered promiscuous and not polygynous. So subordinate males do sometimes get to breed. What I don't know is how often, and whether the dynamic is different in captivity. In the wild, estrus females can go on "safari" (as I believe it is called) where they go away from the group and possibly from the dominant males if they want to mate with a different male. This may be less of an option in a captive group with more limited space.

In fact, even with truly polygynous species, the behavior of the females can affect the success of the males and there is a lot of variation in the dynamics. When a harem gets too large, for instance, or if the females don't "like" the alpha male, they don't always cooperate. And some will breed with "sneaker" males. Or the females are actually focused on resources and the males focus on keeping other males out of a territory where a band of females hangs out more than on controlling the females. It's generally more varied and complicated than an alpha male controlling all the females who just passively follow.
 
Last edited:
(interesting bit of trivia--male chimps prefer older females, as chimps do not have menopause and the older females have greater success rate with offspring being more experienced as mothers and having more status themselves. That's another way the game gets it wrong, as it makes female chimps sterile when they get old, and this doesn't actually happen).
Slowly I start to think we should start a List with Things that the Game gets wrong about Chimpanzees
 
In real life, the dominant male chimps do their best to limit access of other males to the best females, and they are often successful, so they get more chances to breed with the "best" females than other males (interesting bit of trivia--male chimps prefer older females, as chimps do not have menopause and the older females have greater success rate with offspring being more experienced as mothers and having more status themselves. That's another way the game gets it wrong, as it makes female chimps sterile when they get old, and this doesn't actually happen).

However, as I understand it, the females have their own agenda and don't always cooperate, since it behooves them not to put all their "eggs" in one basket genetically. That's why their breeding system is considered promiscuous and not polygynous. So subordinate males do sometimes get to breed. What I don't know is how often, and whether the dynamic is different in captivity. In the wild, estrus females can go on "safari" (as I believe it is called) where they go away from the group and possibly from the dominant males if they want to mate with a different male. This may be less of an option in a captive group with more limited space.

In fact, even with truly polygynous species, the behavior of the females can affect the success of the males and there is a lot of variation in the dynamics. When a harem gets too large, for instance, or if the females don't "like" the alpha male, they don't always cooperate. And some will breed with "sneaker" males. Or the females are actually focused on resources and the males focus on keeping other males out of a territory where a band of females hangs out more than on controlling the females. It's generally more varied and complicated than an alpha male controlling all the females who just passively follow.

Thats a great info, thanks for sharing. Did not know about the chimpanzees, always though they do get sterile at some point.
 
Slowly I start to think we should start a List with Things that the Game gets wrong about Chimpanzees
If they could even follow what they put in the zoopedia re sex ratios it would be helpful. Frustrating to have to get rid of all my young males as soon as they grow up when I shouldn't have to.

I don't get some of the issues in the game. Today I had binturongs and capuchin monkeys levitating through walls en masse (then turning around and levitating back into their enclosure after the alarm rings), and it's not been an issue before. Oh, and my chimps are also walking through walls occasionally in their enclosure.

Is it even worth reporting it on the issue tracker? checked a post I put in about my constantly escaping otters, and they had it marked as expired because they couldn't confirm it. A couple other people had posted that they had the same issue, but I guess it wasn't enough. And the escaping otters and other swimming animals thing has been talked about and reported repeatedly since the aquatic pack launched.

Weird that it's so hard for the developers to witness this issue happening in their test zoos, and weird that it's so hard to fix animals passing through barriers that are supposed to contain them.
 
Is it even worth reporting it on the issue tracker? checked a post I put in about my constantly escaping otters, and they had it marked as expired because they couldn't confirm it.
Sadly it expires automatically after some Time when not enough People contribute to it. I think I've already made 2 Reports about the Problem that Orangutans and Gorillas aren't able to use the Ropes anymore for some Reason
 
Bumping this thread as I feel many social animals such as lemurs and chimps badly need this addition.

Territorial spats would be a cool thing to add for mutli-sex primate groups, even with the monkeys we already have like capuchins and macaques
 
Back
Top Bottom