Fix Alt F4 in Patch 1.1 please

Moloney · Jan 25, 2015

Hi,

There is no point playing open mode while it is possible for this exploit to be used.

You want me and many others to join in on the open play, make it possible to kill people without the frustration of cheating.

It is cheating as it is not a game mechanic. The action to save the ship happens external to the Elite Dangerous application. (E.g. Action: Pull network cable / Use Operating System command to close process).

This is a serious design flaw that needs addressing. Please give it due priority.

Bokugo · Jan 25, 2015

You can't really fix something like that. Pulling the power will always be an option. I do think there should be a light punishment or something, but nothing too severe as power does legitimately go out from time to time. Just like a few minutes of forced pacifism or something. Nothing detrimental like a credit fine or lost progress.

Stressfest · Jan 25, 2015

Try playing Solo.. It almost never happens

Extrasmooth · Jan 25, 2015

The problem is that there's no way to tell if a disconnect is deliberate (i.e. Cheating) versus resulting from issues outside a player's control.

ED is not the only game to suffer from this problem. About the only thing they can do is extend the time that the ship stays in game following a disconnect but it may not be possible to make it long enough to make a material difference without being unfair to those that have disconnected for genuine (e.g. network related) reasons.

kurush · Jan 25, 2015

Extrasmooth said:
ED is not the only game to suffer from this problem. About the only thing they can do is extend the time that the ship stays in game following a disconnect but it may not be possible to make it long enough to make a material difference without being unfair to those that have disconnected for genuine (e.g. network related) reasons.

That is not actually under their control. Whey you say "ship stays in game", you likely mean that there is a ghost ship in your instance when you peer has disconnected. It is still invulnerable and for a good reason. The reason being that if there is a networking issue, your peer would also see *your* ship in this ghost state until either the networking issue is resolved or the game decides to break the instance as you can no longer communicate. Needless to say that <--- my cat is trained in creating this very type of issues on demand

Asp Explorer · Jan 25, 2015

Yay for trained cats!

If you want FD to make a game that breaks some absolute rules governing the operation of your operating system - urm, it's no longer a game. It's malware.

It's the same as accepting offers of "free" stuff by signing up to some website on your phone or tablet, giving it all the permissions in the world, and waiting patiently for your "free" personalized wristband to arrive in second-class mail. You have willingly given some dodgers full control of your personal kit, personal data, who have used your machines to spew out spam to other muppets - for something that cost 99 pence.

And that is the best-case scenario.

Defacto · Jan 25, 2015

Surely there would be some way to solve this issue without lots of computer-intrusive stuff?

keem85 · Jan 25, 2015

Moloney said:
Hi,

There is no point playing open mode while it is possible for this exploit to be used.

You want me and many others to join in on the open play, make it possible to kill people without the frustration of cheating.

It is cheating as it is not a game mechanic. The action to save the ship happens external to the Elite Dangerous application. (E.g. Action: Pull network cable / Use Operating System command to close process).

This is a serious design flaw that needs addressing. Please give it due priority.

What about griefers then? Like 5 people versus 1 (clean)? That problem needs to be adressed too

halo jones 101 · Jan 25, 2015

Moloney said:
Hi,

There is no point playing open mode while it is possible for this exploit to be used.

You want me and many others to join in on the open play, make it possible to kill people without the frustration of cheating.

It is cheating as it is not a game mechanic. The action to save the ship happens external to the Elite Dangerous application. (E.g. Action: Pull network cable / Use Operating System command to close process).

This is a serious design flaw that needs addressing. Please give it due priority.

And you know its always done deliberatly, I believe sure "that some people will quit out of the game if there about to go boom" but there are also a multitude of other things that can cause this, thats the internet, and every other on-line game at one time or another.

When a player drops you dont make the kill, but is making that kill that important?

Asp Explorer · Jan 25, 2015

keem85 said:
What about griefers then? Like 5 people versus 1 (clean)? That problem needs to be adressed too

Actually no - 5 people vs 1 person isn't a problem. That is simply wrong place / wrong time. If you notice a blob of Commanders on your scanner, and it's just you on your own - time to bug out and go someplace else, come out of Frameshift and wait for them and hope you are the better fighter, or simply see if you can evade them.

Daffan · Jan 25, 2015

Bokugo said:
You can't really fix something like that. Pulling the power will always be an option. I do think there should be a light punishment or something, but nothing too severe as power does legitimately go out from time to time. Just like a few minutes of forced pacifism or something. Nothing detrimental like a credit fine or lost progress.

Yes you can

Make them stay in space for 2 minutes.

Every other MMO does this. If your in combat and disconnect, your ship/player stays in-game and can be killed.

keem85 · Jan 25, 2015

Asp Explorer said:
Actually no - 5 people vs 1 person isn't a problem. That is simply wrong place / wrong time. If you notice a blob of Commanders on your scanner, and it's just you on your own - time to bug out and go someplace else, come out of Frameshift and wait for them and hope you are the better fighter, or simply see if you can evade them.

That was actually more of a ranting from my place.. I got interdicted by a gang of thugs that didn't demand cargo or anything.. They were just after killing bigger ships for the heck of it. That's called griefing, and that seems to be a problem aswell. But ofcourse we can't do anything about it.

Dominico · Jan 25, 2015

I agree to this. Just have a system where the ship stays there for 1 minute or 30 seconds. It shouldnt be allowed. If we dont want to be shot at we can play solo.

Asp Explorer · Jan 25, 2015

Daffan said:
Yes you can

Make them stay in space for 2 minutes.

Every other MMO does this. If your in combat and disconnect, your ship/player stays in-game and can be killed.

Again - which account authority is going to keep a ship around for two minutes? There isn't a central arbitrator for all instances.

Bangfish · Jan 25, 2015

Don't let me even get started on this one. Had 3 noobies today logging off on me during combat.

Dogoncrook · Jan 25, 2015

How it's done is a debate for another thread, he is asking that they deal with the problem sooner rather than later. I support this.

Dominico · Jan 25, 2015

Asp Explorer said:
Again - which account authority is going to keep a ship around for two minutes? There isn't a central arbitrator for all instances.

There must be a way. Im sure the info on your ship is held on theiŕ servers. Armour fuel ammo etc. So if you log the status is relayed by the player you were fighting for 30 seconds.

Im no programmer but they have 50 hull. They log. The other guy does 30 hull damage in 30 secondsm the server updates thier ship to be 20% hull. Then when they log back in thats wht they see.

fw190a8 · Jan 25, 2015

Asp Explorer said:
Again - which account authority is going to keep a ship around for two minutes? There isn't a central arbitrator for all instances.

That's interesting. Who controls the NPC ships in an instance where there are two human players? Are these not centralised somewhere? Wherever this place is, couldn't the "I just pulled my network cable" guy be switched over to be managed the same way the NPCs are managed?

Otherwise, if it's purely running on peer-to-peer connections, and 50% of the NPCs are on my system and 50% on the other human's system, wouldn't half the NPCs disappear if the other guy disconnected? It couldn't be that all NPCs are being managed multiple times on every player's system, because otherwise they might differ in what actions they want the NPC to take.

flosculus · Jan 25, 2015

fw190a8 said:
That's interesting. Who controls the NPC ships in an instance where there are two human players? Are these not centralised somewhere? Wherever this place is, couldn't the "I just pulled my network cable" guy be switched over to be managed the same way the NPCs are managed?

Otherwise, if it's purely running on peer-to-peer connections, and 50% of the NPCs are on my system and 50% on the other human's system, wouldn't half the NPCs disappear if the other guy disconnected? It couldn't be that all NPCs are being managed multiple times on every player's system, because otherwise they might differ in what actions they want the NPC to take.

Its probably a bit like some online FPS games. The server is the player with the best connection. If server player leave, someone else takes the existing data and everyone else connects to him.

Mohrgan · Jan 25, 2015

Moloney said:
Hi,

There is no point playing open mode while it is possible for this exploit to be used.

You want me and many others to join in on the open play, make it possible to kill people without the frustration of cheating.

It is cheating as it is not a game mechanic. The action to save the ship happens external to the Elite Dangerous application. (E.g. Action: Pull network cable / Use Operating System command to close process).

This is a serious design flaw that needs addressing. Please give it due priority.

My comment on this topic remains: I think the Loggoffski is as valid a tactic as ramming is, until they give the PK Bounty system some real, effective teeth. When popping a ship and setting back a commander hours of game-play, only incurs a small fine/bounty that can be cleansed in a matter of minutes you have to give the Griefed a way to Grief in return.