Fixed Weapons Convergence

[Algonas]

I bought a Cobra and immediately sold it because i shot at a barn and my lasers went to the sides of it.
Being able to set a convergence point to a preset distance would allow a lot more flexibility on loadouts and would make some extremely awkward hardpoints setups (ie Cobra) usable with fixed guns.

This is what i mean:

It could be balanced in different ways:
1. Only allow convergence setup in hangar
2. Only allow it with hardpoints retracted, with a long "setup time" (a minute or more)
3. Allow to quickly or slowly (few seconds recalibration) switch between a number of preset distances
4. Have a smart system where the computer constantly set the optimal distance based on the targeted object (always potentially pinpoint but still a fixed forward facing weapon)

It could also be tied to different weapon models/targeting computers if they ever come, Cheap manual convergence weapons can be set only in hangar, fancier guns would be able to reset in flight etc.

 

[Aleksej]

Cobra has minimal issues with weapon hard points. Medium ones are perfectly placed so no convergence is necessary for them. As for the small ones - use gimballed weapons there and the issue is solved. It is not about the convergence but about the choice of proper equipment.

 

[Algonas]

So, your meaning is, we have equipment at our disposal that can be mounted on an hardpoint but it's useless, use something else. Why do we have it then?

 

[Aleksej]

So, your meaning is, we have equipment at our disposal that can be mounted on an hardpoint but it's useless, use something else. Why do we have it then?

Why is it useless than? Small lasers can be equipped on a Sidewinder, Eagle, Asp, Viper, Adder, Hauler. These are only Cobras small hard points that require different approach. Taking into account that the efficiency of weapons is dependent on the distance to the target, and the optimal firing distance is up to 1.5km setting the convergence to 750m-1km would cover all the range.

This would oversimplify everything and remove the requirement to select proper equipment for the ship. Moreover, all fixed weapons have aim assist that converge weapons to a certain degree.

Again equip gimballed weapons or missiles on Cobra's small hard points and the problem is solved.

 

[DaggerSnake]

So, your meaning is, we have equipment at our disposal that can be mounted on an hardpoint but it's useless, use something else. Why do we have it then?

You can mount whatever you like. When the exact weapon model you want is not optimal for the locations on the ship you want to put it on, that's on you as a pilot to determine. It's certainly not on the developer. Weapon choice, use and effectiveness are great. I put fixed pulses on my Cobra right when I bought it, I saw the issues right away and decided maybe that wasn't the way to go.

I do like the idea of adjusting convergence points in the hanger. warthunder has this option too. But if you get in a fight that skirts around that range, it can get pretty frustrating.

 

[Algonas]

This would oversimplify everything and remove the requirement to select proper equipment for the ship.

Right now the "proper equipment" is to always use gimballed unless you have railguns or other fixed only guns. They have all the advantages, you lose a tiny fraction of damage that you recoup by the ridicolous tracking of the weapons. Dont say chaff is an hard counter, since deselecting a target turns them into effective fixed weapons with a bit less damage for a few seconds.

Again equip gimballed weapons or missiles on Cobra's small hard points and the problem is solved.

This is not answering the problem of fixed weapon being too inflexible for what they are, 20% dps is nothing with a fraction of the time on target.

 

[clinton]

I agree with the OP to allow setting convergence (fixed or gimballed). Both fixed and gimballed pivot on their mount, just gimballed to a larger extent, but with both you should be able to pick their "centre".

This would allow some strategic depth for ships like the Cobra. Do you set a relatively small convergence at 1.5km, meaning that your fixed weapons despite the small movement will not be able to hit at short range, or set a move significant convergence at say 500m, allowing you to hit targets at short ranges consistently but meaning that the fixed weapons can't pivot enough to hit long range targets.

You should be able to choose for gimballed also, though it's less important for them obviously, it just adjusts the centre of their range and where they "rest". Not as important obviously as for fixed.

I think hanger only, and perhaps even charge for the service.

 

[RallyPoint]

Put me in the 'not a problem' camp.

I've done combat in Sidewinder, Adder, and Cobra using both fixed and gimbal weapons on all of them. Yeah there's a sweet spot... actually it's a sweet 'zone' or 'range'. Up to the pilot to keep your target in that zone. Personally I thought it was very forgiving and a good size zone given how even fixed weapons do adjust slightly to your target... WAY more flexible than your photo there.

Aleksej makes valid points too; just because you CAN put something in a slot doesn't mean you SHOULD. You ask "why do we have it then?" ... because many of us have no problem using them and because they are common pool weapons that may work great on one platform vs another. I sure don't want them to restrict what chassis can mount which fixed weapons just because some people don't like how they work. Let the pilots figure it out; not like you get penalized for swapping parts and playing around (well unless you count spent ammo)

 

[clinton]

Put me in the 'not a problem' camp.

It's also not a problem to add it. Widely spaced hardpoints will still present difficulties for fixed weapons, as they'll still have a "sweet spot", set by the user. More choices+cost/benefit decisions makes the game better, even if there isn't a "problem". Designing a game by only fixing "problems" is a sad and uninspiring approach. We should be aspiring to make the game better, not just fixing problems, and by adding some extra strategic choices the OPs suggestion I think does make the game better.

But like I said, adjustments should cost money (and so should selling equipment to be honest). Elite Dangerous is a bit too easy at the moment.

 

[Kyokushin]

Good idea, we talked about it many times. I would like to have a possibility to set a convergence point in my Clipper.

 

[madmann135]

Personally I like the idea as it would open up the customize feature of the game. I would give an example but I'm sure everyone has what I am thinking in their minds.

 

[Lestat]

You know Cobra are great to take out Large target like Lakon 6 to Lakon 9. Maybe a little troublesome but Anaconda as well. It a ok Fighter but it a all around ship. It not great at everything.

 

[CrazyH0rse]

+1

I would argue that this is an absolutely necessity for fixed weapons with any degree of separation. You should try hitting something with fixed lasers on an imperial clipper.

They had it in WWII for heaven's sake!

Also, you might want to adjust the convergence depending on the weapon, weather a laser or a multi cannon for example and depending on your fighting style.

 

[Ev1lMush]

I wish to revive this thread since this is becoming more and more of a let down for me. Ever since I started playing Elite I wanted to improve my aiming skills and gimballed weapons always felt like it's just making the game way too easy and as a result a lot less fun... I mean, gimballed weapons are overpowered as it is because there's barely any damage penalty compared to fixed weapons and considering you probably won't miss with gimballed weapons it doesn't really balance it out. This was less of a problem for me when I had a Cobra (and even less during my viper days) but then I moved to the courier and I just gave up on fixed weapons on the wings because I couldn't hit with both of them on small targets, it was just impossible. Now I have the clipper, and it's even worse there, the hardpoints are so far apart... I don't mind if I won't be able to control the convergence, but at least figure out a reasonable fixed convergence distance and apply it to each ship or even to all of them, that will still be way better than what we currently have. Bottom line is I think you should reward players for choosing to fight the manual way and use fixed weapons, currently you're just punishing them.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

Cobra has minimal issues with weapon hard points. Medium ones are perfectly placed so no convergence is necessary for them. As for the small ones - use gimballed weapons there and the issue is solved. It is not about the convergence but about the choice of proper equipment.

And 900 years in the future we have forgotten weapon technology from WW2...

 

[Psycho Romeo]

If you bring gimballed weapons to any party that has me on the other side, I'm going to take them and shove them up your thruster exhaust with chaff launchers and frag cannon spray.

Fixed weapons should remain just that - fixed (mostly). I'm all for this suggestion working for gimballed weapons, but at that point it would be pointless.

I can kinda see this coming out as a weapon mod in the future. Focused lasers, converging lasers, low heat lasers, etc. But remember those things have to fit back into the hard point bays, so convergence may simply not be an option.

 

[Ev1lMush]

If you bring gimballed weapons to any party that has me on the other side, I'm going to take them and shove them up your thruster exhaust with chaff launchers and frag cannon spray.

Why do people think chaff launchers are really effective against players??? if your target is farting chaff you can just deselect it and turn your weapons into fixed weapons, once again giving the gimballed weapons an advantage...

- - - Updated - - -

Fixed weapons should remain just that - fixed (mostly). I'm all for this suggestion working for gimballed weapons, but at that point it would be pointless..

We're not suggesting fixed weapons shouldn't be fixed but tilted towards the center. I actually don't mind if they'll disable the very small gimball option they currently have on the fixed weapons but at least have it tilted to the center for a certain distance convergence.

 

[Magic Man]

Fixed weapons should remain just that - fixed (mostly). I'm all for this suggestion working for gimballed weapons, but at that point it would be pointless.

As you say, convergence on gimballed weapons is pointless since they are already effectively automatically converging.

Fixed could benefit from variable convergence though. Could even be automatic based on the relative distance of the target. They would still only fire at a fixed point in front of the ship but the distance at which they converge would vary according to target.. Could make auto convergence subject to interference from chaff in the same way as gimballed etc. so they revert to a fixed convergence.

 

[Ev1lMush]

Tbh I don't mind if the distance would be fixed as well, I mean it's not the optimal solution but it would still be a lot better than the current situation. Also, having the convergence distance fixed on say 1km would also have it at a better position for 800m - 1.2 km distance probably.

I really think this should be addressed asap.

 

[Xantraus]

This is an excellent idea. I'd like to make every shot count while using my rail guns, and setting the weapons convergence to a few preset ranges while at the nearest station with outfitting/repair facilities would be an excellent enhancement to using fixed weapons on hard points that are located near the outer edges of your ship.