Fleet Carriers: A question on maximum (round-trip) range.

[A10A]

I have previously had something of a disdain for fleet carriers, because they require an upkeep cost regardless of whether you are logged in to the game or not. Even if you restrict who can use them. This means that if you are taking a hiatus from the game you will have to make sure that you have funds to cover the continuous upkeep or it will be sold out from underneath you (in your absence). For well-equipped FC versions this cost can be almost $30,000,000 per week (I read). This is around 1.6 billion per year (by my calculations).

After making an alt for exploring (a game-changer), I'm puzzling on the value of the FC for this purpose (rather than simply being a convenient place to home all your vehicles).

My question:

With 25000 T worth of tritium cargo as well as a 1000 T tritium fuel load (and taking at least a T9 ship with you): What is the maximum round-trip distance of a 'bare-bones' FC?

(My apologies on the vagueness of this question. I had read that a 'bare bones' FC could jump 500 LY on just 68 tritium. Carrying ships. I do not imagine that this meant carrying a 25000 Max capacity load of tritium. I am hoping that someone may have a formula to calculate maximum range of a FC [without having to mine for resources en route]?)

 

[K Olley]

Why bother?

An unequipped carrier is next to useless out in the black, you can visit other carriers if need be for the occasional repair and to cash in exploration data etc. There is a interactive map that shows locations etc available.

A properly equipped exploration carrier will cost you 14 - 16 mil a week which can be reduced by suspending the services when they are not being used and if you learn to mine and carry a mining ship your range is unlimited. take a look at my carrier link in sig, the only thing that I have not yet fitted that would be of use out in the black is Vista Genomics which will enable me to cash in biological samples.

Ships and spare ship modules do not count towards weight on a carrier so you can carry up to your limit without incurring any additional tritium costs.

I am both an explorer and a miner, I spend most of my time out in the black, I keep my carrier light in weight, mining for Tritium as I go and only mining for other other metals - minerals on the return trip but it is easily possible to make enough to maintain the carrier from just basic exploration alone. (thats not counting what can be made from biological samples)

 

[varonica]

I have previously had something of a disdain for fleet carriers, because they require an upkeep cost regardless of whether you are logged in to the game or not. Even if you restrict who can use them. This means that if you are taking a hiatus from the game you will have to make sure that you have funds to cover the continuous upkeep or it will be sold out from underneath you (in your absence). For well-equipped FC versions this cost can be almost $30,000,000 per week (I read). This is around 1.6 billion per year (by my calculations).

After making an alt for exploring (a game-changer), I'm puzzling on the value of the FC for this purpose (rather than simply being a convenient place to home all your vehicles).

My question:

With 25000 T worth of tritium cargo as well as a 1000 T tritium fuel load (and taking at least a T9 ship with you): What is the maximum round-trip distance of a 'bare-bones' FC?

(My apologies on the vagueness of this question. I had read that a 'bare bones' FC could jump 500 LY on just 68 tritium. Carrying ships. I do not imagine that this meant carrying a 25000 Max capacity load of tritium. I am hoping that someone may have a formula to calculate maximum range of a FC [without having to mine for resources en route]?)

When the carrier is fully loaded the Tritium used is 125t for 500ly, the Tritium used per jump drops as the Tritium is used so it's not just a straight linear calculation. Fortunately someone has done it all for us, you just enter the starting mass of the FC, the route you want to follow and it will work out how much Tritium will be used, that way you can work out the max range of the carrier.

Elite: Dangerous Index

spansh.co.uk

 

[LifesAJourney]

First of all: the carrier almost never jumps 500 Ly. It's extremely hard to find stars in this particular distance. During my year-long 463-carrier-jump trip the longest jump was 499.9944 Ly, the average 473.75 Ly.

Assuming a bare carrier with 26kT of tritium onboard and 473.75 Ly jumps, you'd make 282 jumps and cover 133,597.50 Ly. There would also be 34 tonnes left in the depot for the 283th jump of maximum 235 Ly. So, the total distance would be 133,832.50 Ly.

If you insist on theoretically possible 500-Ly jumps, you'd get 269 full-length jumps and the 270th 187-Ly one giving total distance of 134,687 Ly.

 

[A10A]

The question asked by K Olley: Why bother? The reason I would do this is to use the FC carrier as a transport for a number of different-build ships to distant areas. I would prefer to avoid the need to mine along the way (or way back). Mining is not my favorite pastime. Your prompt to take a mining ship along is good advice that I will certainly take. I somewhat confused the issue by using the term 'explorer' when, in this case, I more accurately should have said 'sight-seeing'.

The link provided by varonica is extremely convenient for a (almost) same-weight-throughout-the-journey FC. I also appreciate the no-nonsense answer on a fully loaded FC fuel use per 500 ly jump. (Thanks, varonica.)

Thank you for the detailed calculations on total distance, LifesAJourney. The 'reality check' on jump range is appreciated. It looks like you have taken into account the steadily reducing cargo tonnage as the journey progresses (I'm impressed). It allows me to plan a mining-free round-trip. Perfect.

Thank you, everyone, for the very helpful responses and great information.

 

[GroG79]

I also appreciate the no-nonsense answer on a fully loaded FC fuel use per 500 ly jump.

It is actually a bit more when full. I believe 132 ton. Then the FC is emplty it is 125.

I myself did not like exploring with a FC. My FC was always 1000s of Ly beind trying to catch up. The DSSA is a great inivitative and you can use it to sell data or do repairs if needed.

 

[Robert Maynard]

It is actually a bit more when full. I believe 132 ton. Then the FC is emplty it is 125.

I myself did not like exploring with a FC. My FC was always 1000s of Ly beind trying to catch up. The DSSA is a great inivitative and you can use it to sell data or do repairs if needed.

From calcs I did a while ago, a fully laden carrier (25,000t of Carrier + 25,000t of "stuff") consumes 133t of tritium for 500LY. An empty Carrier (just 25,000t) will consume 68t for a 500LY jump.

My Carrier, with 6,000t allocated for shipyard and outfitting, with some ships-with-tritium-cargo (5,200t in total) docked, and 19,000t of tritium in the Carrier's hold plus 1,000t in the fuel tank, was estimated to be able to cover a total of c.125,500LY with appropriate fuel strategy, i.e. use what's in the tank / hold first before topping up the tank from docked ships (as the docked ships, including their cargo, apparently weigh nothing).

 

[varonica]

It is actually a bit more when full. I believe 132 ton. Then the FC is emplty it is 125.

I myself did not like exploring with a FC. My FC was always 1000s of Ly beind trying to catch up. The DSSA is a great inivitative and you can use it to sell data or do repairs if needed.

As Robert points out, it's a LOT less than 125 when empty, although I did think it was a maximum of 125t when fully loaded, oh well.

 

[K Olley]

The question asked by K Olley: Why bother? The reason I would do this is to use the FC carrier as a transport for a number of different-build ships to distant areas. I would prefer to avoid the need to mine along the way (or way back). Mining is not my favorite pastime. Your prompt to take a mining ship along is good advice that I will certainly take. I somewhat confused the issue by using the term 'explorer' when, in this case, I more accurately should have said 'sight-seeing'.

That changes the options, if it is just transportation then you have also got the option of returning using an explorer type ship which would be a lot faster or even suicidewinder even faster and selling carrier at its final location. I do not know the procedure for this.

Another option if you have time to spare, if you run out on the way back is to get another carrier to come out and re-supply you, but getting another commander to ferry out Tritium can be a pricy affair. I have done this in the early days of carriers, ferry run out and mined - explored my way back, that was when my credits were short and time was available.

The mining option, a large laser miner will do but you will need carrier equipped with re-fuel and re-arm (for limpets) as well.

 

[A10A]

K Olley: "The mining option, a large laser miner will do but you will need carrier equipped with re-fuel and re-arm (for limpets) as well."

That is a gem of great advice. This one I would have overlooked. Thanks. Limpets, while they can be manufactured, are needed in quantity for mining. Thank you for potentially saving me some teeth grinding out in the black!

 

[Faded Glory]

I have a carrier that I use for exploration. When not exploring it's just parked in my home system. I have all my ships on it.

For exploration, I currently have just over 12,000 tons of tritium and each jump (I go for the max and it's usually 499.xx Ly) uses 104 or 105 tons. I use the carrier as a base and sell my exploration and exobiology data at it, this easily outweighs the operating cost, and that's just exploration data as I don't think (could be wrong) that the carrier gets a percentage of the exobiology.

My usual gameplay is to jump, then explore in one of my two dedicated exploration ships up and down from where the carrier is. I will do exobiology as I go along, but if I find a body that has a lot of signals and an atmosphere that might make those signals interesting I'll bookmark it and go back in my DB Explorer as it has a better chance of being able to land where I want to as the other two ships are mediums.

I was never that keen on mining either, but have found it to be a nice break from the other (exploration) gameplay from time to time, and even in it's rather dodgy state at the moment, I can get 95 tons of tritium in a hotspot in a little over an hour. So far on this trip I've actually mined slightly more than I've used, and I don't try very hard. In theory, and if I continue like this I could just carry on indefinitely...

 

[LifesAJourney]

A fully loaded carrier uses 133 tonnes of tritium for a 500-Ly jump. An almost-empty one (68 tonnes are needed to do the jump) needs 68 tonnes for a 500-Ly jump.

 

[Neilski]

Spansh says 132 tons for a fully-loaded carrier and 500.00 ly. I seem to recall checking it against the game in the past and it was always spot on.

 

[LifesAJourney]

It's actually 133 tonnes for exactly 500 Ly jump (which is extremely hard to make) and 132 tonnes for 499,99(9) Ly jump which is presented as 500 Ly in game.

Not that it makes any practical difference.

 

[777Driver]

Why bother?


An unequipped carrier is next to useless out in the black

Out of curiosity, what is your idea of a properly equipped carrier? I'm running two, a tritium freighter in the bubble, and a long-range explorer. The only essentials I'd recommend for a low-mass exploration carrier are Vista (to cash in data to purchase more fuel from deep space carriers) and Universal Cartographics for the same reason. The total mass is 240 tonnes.

Refuel repair can be done with limpets/scoops. Outfitting and shipyard come as standard for the carrier owner.

 

[K Olley]

Out of curiosity, what is your idea of a properly equipped carrier? I'm running two, a tritium freighter in the bubble, and a long-range explorer. The only essentials I'd recommend for a low-mass exploration carrier are Vista (to cash in data to purchase more fuel from deep space carriers) and Universal Cartographics for the same reason. The total mass is 240 tonnes.

Refuel repair can be done with limpets/scoops. Outfitting and shipyard come as standard for the carrier owner.

That would depend on the cmdr's abilities and intended uses.

I have not as yet fitted Vista but for the reason above was thinking about it.

I use my carrier for more basic exploration (mainly ship based) and mining, I have got Universal Cartographics, re-arm, repair and refuel fitted, for a total mass of 1,150 ton. basic minimum for my own uses and any passing CMDR that needs repair or re-stock of a SRV.

Minimal weight with the ability to mine my own fuel and survive without using external facilities, plenty of cargo space for that return load of mined goods

It can be done with less but it is a trade of between ease and time.

 

[Neilski]

Spansh says 132 tons for a fully-loaded carrier and 500.00 ly. I seem to recall checking it against the game in the past and it was always spot on.

It's actually 133 tonnes for exactly 500 Ly jump (which is extremely hard to make) and 132 tonnes for 499,99(9) Ly jump which is presented as 500 Ly in game.

Not that it makes any practical difference.

Agreed that there's no practical difference, but I was curious so I went back to the equation for the consumption (from another thread).
Turns out that the absolute maximum that the (unrounded) equation would yield is 132.5 t, so this would indeed give 133 t fuel consumed in the game
Inevitably, the distance which was showing for me in Spansh as 500.00 ly will have been a whisker less than 500 (perhaps 499.996).
This then makes me wonder whether ED uses single- or double-precision for this calculation (or indeed some other precision limitation). If it's the latter it would seem quite possible that nobody has ever managed to use 133 t on a carrier jump
Edit: darn, I now realise I hadn't properly read the second half of your (one-line!) reply. )
Edit2: perusing my journals and EDSM, it seems like "StarPos" coordinates are only single precision values... (no doubt I'm discovering very very old news here! )

 

[Greasetrap42]

I have previously had something of a disdain for fleet carriers, because they require an upkeep cost regardless of whether you are logged in to the game or not. Even if you restrict who can use them. This means that if you are taking a hiatus from the game you will have to make sure that you have funds to cover the continuous upkeep or it will be sold out from underneath you (in your absenc

• You can bank the fleet carrier maint fee so it gets withdrawn automatically whether you login or not.
• It is best to bank +1 year so you can take a game hiatus and don't need to worry about logging in regularly.
• For long term deep space travel I recommend including the services refuel, rearm, repair, redemption, UC, vista genomics. I like the bar for aesthetics. 780 mil credits/year.
• Having a fleet carrier can completely change how you do deep space travel & exploration.

Major Benefits for Exploration:

• Ability to bring specialized ships for various exploration purposes. (i) Long range exploration ship, (ii) comfy exploration ship, no need to min/max and (iii) short range small ship for Exobiology great idea. Bring along a mining ship and some fun zip-around ships too.
• Ability to cash in exobiology immediately. Big credit amounts. And UC.
• 500Ly jump range if you like getting at the very remote systems.
• Respawn point in the event you get destroyed.

For a carrier budget 6 Billion + 1 Billion/yr maint. I think it is well worth it but if its too much for your play style then don't bother. Lots of DSSA carriers you can stop at and visit.

 

[Kotoku]

Vista + Universal Carto + Bar for long range explorer carrier.

The bar is a nice music break "reward moment'' coming back from an exploration trip and cashing in at Vista.
Captains cabin and bridge is boring af.

 

[Kestrel71]

With exobiology now paying out a reasonable amount, carriers are able to support themselves out in the black, but the problem is still tritium; I can fully stock up on tritium in the bubble but if I use all that tritium to go far out into deep space, I am committing to dozens of hours of mining to get back. The carriers really need a way to refuel in space -- a module for the carrier to allow refuelling while sitting around a star (say a couple of days to fill the tank) or a module for ships that allows scooping tritium from a star. A module for the carrier would likely be the easiest since it wouldn't disrupt the in-game tritium economy due to the fact that the tritium in the tank can't be offloaded.