Fleet Carriers: I don't want everyone tohave one

[Bryan K]

I still consider my Anacondas special, no matter how many people have Anacondas. I don’t really care about what others have or don’t have.

I feel sorry for those who gauge the worth of their possessions by how rare they are, rather than how much joy they bring into their lives.

 

[Ian Skippy]

I still consider my Anacondas special, no matter how many people have Anacondas. I don’t really care about what others have or don’t have.

I feel sorry for those who gauge the worth of their possessions by how common they are, rather than how much joy they bring into their lives.

There is this common 'difficult question' floating on the world's discussion boards: would you accept $1000 if it means your neighbour got $2000? That this is a conundrum to anyone is compelling evidence we are a terrible species.

 

[Good Whiskey]

would you accept $1000 if it means your neighbour got $2000?

...

Yeah, I don't get it. How is this a conversation? I mean, am I missing something? Sounds like me and my neighbor just got $3,000 richer.

 

[House0fDerp]

Nope, they were saying it's was impossible to get a anaconda.

And thet were clearly and demonstrably wrong. Don't let yesterday's hyperbole be your argument today. You look just as silly as those people did.

 

[Konan]

[flamebait]

If everyone has a fleet carrier, then they are no longer special.

You must admit...the Anaconda was meant to be special.
Everyone and anyone can own one....it is not special.

Then along came Corvettes and Cutters....up to 1 billion to properly fit.
Everyone and anyone can own one...they are not special.

Making credits in Elite is ridiculously easy (24000 players per day in Borann, 200-500million per session).
Whilst a grind, 5 Billion credits, therefore is not too hard...people complain about the grind, yet they're all there, grinding away in Borann...presumably to afford a fleet carrier.

Fleet Carriers, in my eyes are not meant to simply be a place where their owner can park their fleet and store a heap of commodities. They are meant to be so much more than that.
They could add a lot more to the gameplay...so long as they do not simply become another Corvette or Cutter.

So, I for one, and I could be alone in this opinion, feel fleet carriers should only be owned be CMDRs who are dedicated to playing the game regularly and have the means to afford them.

In doing so, if these Elite of the Elite only use them as personal mobile hangers and storage facilities....that would be a pity and a huge opportunity would be lost. (Hence FD including an upkeep cost)

Yes, like many I think the running cost is too high, maybe by a factor of x3 however, I feel this is not, of itself, a bad idea.
And,I hope that when FD do lower the up keep, they raise the buy price accordingly.

These FCs should only be owned by those who are dedicated players who can both afford and run them.

Only then will they continue to be special

[/Flamebait]

Popcorn and flames welcome as everyone has their own opinion....this one is mine.
And for what it's worth...I cannot realistically own one of these.
Buy one? Yes.
Fit it out? Not yet.
Operate one properly, nope.

Clicker

So, my dedication to the game is based on the number of credits I have and not the 10000 + hours I have in game? It's based on the ships I have and not my love for the game? What a ridiculous thing to suggest. I am triple elite with the aforementioned number of hours in game, I have 37 ships, not because I fly all of them or even wanted all of them but to store modules on them. I play my way. I have 10 billion in assets but I can't afford this carrier and it's upkeep. That does not mean I am not dedicated to Elite. It's elitist thinking like this that makes me despise some of the players here. Blaze our own path....I thought that was the idea. Elite is not a race to wealth for me and others like myself. We play and fly for the enjoyment and you who have more credits than most of us are no more dedicated than we are.......what a stupid comment you made.

 

[TorTorden_VR]

I've been banging this drum for months now.

Elite is a space flight simulator. It simulates flying. In space. That's why I'm here. And there is so much that can be done with the wonderful foundation they've laid down. Carriers are not that. They're creditsinks and timesinks. Their functionality is highly situational. Their economic mechanism is geared toward generating credits that you, as a carrier owner, don't really need other than to pay for your carrier, because you are already spacerich and there's nothing left for you to buy. From what I can tell, from all the looking into this and limited testing I've done, these things weren't designed to improve the time we spend in Elite, but COMPLETELY WASTE IT!

...

Goodness me. I appear to have become...

I will continue this discourse at a later date.

Couldn't be more in agreement.

Honestly since about mid 2016 my time in elite had been less about making money or grinding, and more like living the life of wealthy action junky.
I never did anything that got boring.

Fleet carriers and honestly fd's entire direction seem to be catering to the loud masses.

I thought elite was to be the lone commander setting off your own adventure. But the whiners wanted guilds, and are now getting the ability to trade credits and goods en-masse.

Guess not, most of the features recently seem to want to make it into a sad version of Eve, possibly the least engaging game I have tried playing.
And I played daily for about eight years.

Seriously game devs in general should look at Eve: and do the absolute opposite.

A game you can pretty much sum up with two words.

Spreadsheets and *bleep*holes.

As a feature, now, these carriers are a massive waste of time. And should never leave beta as is.

With that I'm giving them a shot in beta, cause it's beta, but so far I'm I'm not really seeing any fun, the running costs will kill it.

Just the price of fuel is annoying enough, but I'm ok with that.
It's not spending fuel without me using it, that's gameplay. Right now it's the mortgage simulator.

But I'm guessing carriers is frontiers justification for sqaudrons.
Even though they have gone from "only certain sqaudrons will qualify"

To "everybody can get one".
Pick a direction already.

If they release legs I'm simply done.
Heck at that point I'd be looking for a refund.

 

[Good Whiskey]

Seriously game devs in general should look at Eve: and do the absolute opposite.

A game you can pretty much sum up with two words.

Spreadsheets and *bleep*holes.

I know what you're trying to say, but having been one of those *bleep*holes for over a decade, I can tell you that EVE did one thing terrifically well, which was sticking to the formula. The corporation and alliance cultures that emerged from that genuinely ruthless online universe were (and still are) amazingly diverse. What developers can learn from CCP and EVE is that straying from the forumla is a recipe for disaster when it does happen. Dust 514? Failure. Planetary management? Boring. Exploration? Niche. The meat of EVE is group conflict, conflict management and strategy, and social engineering. It does those things marvelously. Elite does science fiction space flight marvelously. It just needs to keep doing that thing without Planet Zoo mindset incursions.

Bigger is not better. More complex is not better. Better is better.

There's a reason WoW players hated the Warlords expansion - nobody wants to spend all day grinding for something with limited functionality, isn't interesting, isn't fun, isn't innovative and ultimately isn't worth the contents of a chamber pot. It strayed for the formula.

Don't do it.

 

[dm0815]

You're absolutely right.

For me. What's really screwed the game up is the notion that - just because something is available in game - players have an automatic God-given right to experience it. The original idea of the top-tier ships is that they would be rare and expensive things that only a few people would get to after a lot of work. Like space Ferraris or Rolls*. You could pursue them if you wanted and if you didn't think they were worth the effort you could actually do everything in a Cobra III, if that's what you wanted to do.

People whined and moaned about it and eventually FD decided to allow it to be possible to "earn" an FDL or Conda in a few hours gameplay. Which meant that now a lot of people were rocking what should have been rare ships. Which meant.... a lot of ganking and griefing. To some degree FD's hand was forced due to exploits (scanner missions and things) making instant millionaires of a lot of players, after which point the whole thing kinda fell apart like a hanky in a washing machine. But that was the game, really. If you sat down at a chess board to play and your opponent immediately shook your hand and said "congratulations" without touching a piece you might have won, but it wouldn't be much of an experience. That was the bloody point. The quickest way to "win" at any game is not to play it at all, because you can't lose that way. And the password "Joshua5" is a really bad one - we know why.

The original plan was you got an Eagle, worked up to a Cobra, then a Python or T7, then a T9... Etc etc. Over time & the process of acquiring ships was the actual game. When I first started out I recall thinking seriously - do I upgrade my Sidewinders FSD with the proceeds of the last job, or do I think seriously about expanding cargo storage, or do I save towards an Adder in a few hours time? - but in the modern era I reset and I think I earned the purchase cost of a Cobra 3 with the first mission. For me that was part of the fun, though.

Yes, fleet carriers should be rare and valuable things.

*Yes, I know a lot of people with these cars are actually just fortunate that they were born in to money. But you get my point.

I too think the ship progression is one of the more engaging and fun parts about Elite. Reset my commander twice and during the time I've progressed from the Sidewinder upwards I've felt motivated to play each day. The motivation curve starts to fall with ships that are more expensive than the Asp Explorer or maybe the Python if you also include the required credits for decent modules. What Elite lacks are game loops that support the long stretch towards the Anaconda for example. Doing even more of the same generic procedurally generated missions doesn't cut it.

I. e.: Frontier hasn't figured out the carrot and stick part of their game formula (if there ever was one).

 

[Rubbernuke]

I know what you're trying to say, but having been one of those *bleep*holes for over a decade, I can tell you that EVE did one thing terrifically well, which was sticking to the formula. The corporation and alliance cultures that emerged from that genuinely ruthless online universe were (and still are) amazingly diverse. What developers can learn from CCP and EVE is that straying from the forumla is a recipe for disaster when it does happen. Dust 514? Failure. Planetary management? Boring. Exploration? Niche. The meat of EVE is group conflict, conflict management and strategy, and social engineering. It does those things marvelously. Elite does science fiction space flight marvelously. It just needs to keep doing that thing without Planet Zoo mindset incursions.

Bigger is not better. More complex is not better. Better is better.

There's a reason WoW players hated the Warlords expansion - nobody wants to spend all day grinding for something with limited functionality, isn't interesting, isn't fun, isn't innovative and ultimately isn't worth the contents of a camber pot. It strayed for the formula. Don't do it.

I need to give you a hug, because your answer is correct and only a hug acknowledges this level of correct. It underlines the problem with ED, in that it tries to do everything around spaceships rather than the spaceships.

 

[Commander Biscuit]

I'm not going to buy a ship kit or paintjob for someone else's carrier. FD need to have a think about this.

 

[Demsit]

This is a game, not RL. Everybody should be able to get every asset in the game, no exceptions. That very much includes casual gamers.

Give Fleet Carriers universal cartographics, make them easy to sustain in the void... and many will disperse into the galaxy, never to be seen again. Their novelty is going to wear off at some point anyways.

Instead of fighting for carriers to be impossible to get and keep for most players (which is hands down just mean spirited) you should fight for them to be perfect for exploration. That makes sure they don't litter the bubble, as you (OP) seem to fear.

 

[jasonbarron]

This is a game, not RL. Everybody should be able to get every asset in the game, no exceptions. That very much includes casual gamers.

Give Fleet Carriers universal cartographics, make them easy to sustain in the void... and many will disperse into the galaxy, never to be seen again. Their novelty is going to wear off at some point anyways.

Instead of fighting for carriers to be impossible to get and keep for most players (which is hands down just mean spirited) you should fight for them to be perfect for exploration. That makes sure they don't litter the bubble, as you (OP) seem to fear.

So, since Fdev is in fact making the FC available to everybody in the game we can assume that you really mean that they should "give them to everybody?" Because other than that, Fdev choosing to set a high price and upkeep fee is just another aspect of this little thing some of us like to call "balancing the game."

 

[House0fDerp]

So, since Fdev is in fact making the FC available to everybody in the game we can assume that you really mean that they should "give them to everybody?" Because other than that, Fdev choosing to set a high price and upkeep fee is just another aspect of this little thing some of us like to call "balancing the game."

Maybe the lesson here is that a portable station is a bad idea if you have to balance it like that. Or maybe I'm wrong and this all connects: ridiculous mining income making even the ridiculous affordable and marking the clear path to maintaining these things, fleet carriers being the only "endgame" addition in years, erosion of the traditional roles of commanders in the games as privateers vs major asset owners and commerce moguls.

Whatever.

 

[Nadreck]

Most of the game scales to how often you play, including the rates at which you gain credits, ranks etc. A casual player can get access to the same stuff, it just takes him longer.

Whereas upkeep that accumulates even while logged off doesn't scale at all.

 

[jasonbarron]

I'll definitely go with you, houseofderp, as far as asking "why fdev even bothered." Personally, I think a bunch of FC's trecking around with little to no ingame purpose for existing is a stupid waste of their dev time. But hasn't that been the narrative for the last few years now, them spending months and months developing crap that nobody really cottoned to right out of the box and then abandoned because it wasn't instantly popular? They stuck with engineers, I'll give them that, but I'm not sure if that was the popular move, either.

 

[Wimmer]

We don't need to worry. 70% of Fleet Carriers bought with that 'Borann gold rush' will be scrapped until this year will end.

 

[Commander Biscuit]

So, since Fdev is in fact making the FC available to everybody in the game we can assume that you really mean that they should "give them to everybody?" Because other than that, Fdev choosing to set a high price and upkeep fee is just another aspect of this little thing some of us like to call "balancing the game."

I don't think people want fleet carriers given to them, just reasonably attainable, which they currently arent. This is a lose lose scenarie. FD loses out on a bunch of monetization from carrier skins and kits, and players lose out on the gameplay (sic) that carriers provide.

 

[Northpin]

Then I went into the beta and saw the shear number of FC's parked in any one system (I counted, there were over 125 of them parked in Borann alone). So just how special should they be? Suppose you wanted to set the price tag so there were less than 100 FC owners in the entire game. What price would you set them at? (50 billion?, 100 billion?).

By February, close to 400 commanders on Inara had more than 20 billions credits.
Cash.
By June they will be much more.

 

[jasonbarron]

I don't think people want fleet carriers given to them, just reasonably attainable, which they currently arent. This is a lose lose scenarie. FD loses out on a bunch of monetization from carrier skins and kits, and players lose out on the gameplay (sic) that carriers provide.

You have to know that Fdev will cave and lower to the price to the point of irrelevance.

Edit: Northpin, that's a whole nother thang there. Any way that that kind of money making is even remotely possible in the game is a big sign that things are completely broken and Fdev is simply phoning their duties in.

 

[House0fDerp]

You have to know that Fdev will cave and lower to the price to the point of irrelevance.

Edit: Northpin, that's a whole nother thang there. Any way that that kind of money making is even remotely possible in the game is a big sign that things are completely broken and Fdev is simply phoning their duties in.

The genie is out of the bottle and worse, if the development of the FC feature is any indication, I think the idea has moved from it being an anomaly they haven't gotten around to correcting to something they intend to use and try to justify/sink with costly endgame mechanics.