Fleet Carriers, The Easy Button, and the End of Trit Mining

Since I weighed-in on patches 3 and 4, thought I should probably reply to today's Tritium Efficiency Update, as well.

The forum reactions are notably mixed and fall into two camps:
  • Yay, Fdev fixed the problem!!
  • Salty, Fdev just ruined the game!!
I actually agree with both, here's why…

Today, FCs were handed an "easy" button. Range is doubled. Most of the galaxy is reachable for round trips on a single fueling. Deployment of future DSSA carriers just became easier. Logistics and the necessity to mine Tritium deep in the black just went away. The bar has been lowered and not a single DSSA fleet carrier will need to be fueled enroute.

As DSSA CMDR SpaceTrash67 noted in FleetComm Discord this afternoon, "So with range doubled - I have more than enough fuel already on board...aside from some last minute outfitting/engineering- I am ready to launch."

He is absolutely right.

And more broadly, I think deep space just became much more accessible to many more fleet carriers. This is especially good for solo FC owners, who can buy the fuel they need in the Bubble and head out to areas they otherwise could not have reached.

That said, we don't all play the game the same way.

If you caught yesterday's livestream on the DSSA, you heard my pitch for emergent, player-driven game play based on the new meta for exploration – the search for overlapping Tritium hotspots. The too long; didn't listen is that up to patch 3, overlapping Tritium hotspots in the black were extremely valuable discoveries. Fleet carriers would go well out of their way to stop at one for necessary refueling, hence the search to locate them in strategic areas.

That refueling is no longer necessary. The overlaps have been nerfed. Hotspots are relatively homogenized. Group-driven, organized, game play that centered on finding overlaps is, I suspect, a thing of the past. The notion of DSSA-based Tritium depots is shelved for lack of need.

Tritium mining in general, at any kind of hot spot, doesn't make a lot of sense anymore. Thoughtful CMDRs will skip Tritium altogether, mine for credits in the Bubble, then buy all their Tritium on the market for far less effort than actually mining it.

As Erimus Kamzel noted in FleetComm Discord,

Its pretty bad for miners as there's very little reason to take mining teams along on deep space Carrier events now, unless someone is planning to circumnavigate the galaxy or something. As far as the DSSA is concerned, any Carriers that are still yet to deploy have no practical reason to do it as an expedition with players signing up to help out. Carrier Commanders can solo their way out to whatever region they're destined for.​
Its a big blow for a potential DW3 too since the expedition would have had logistical support for the DSSA as one of its core aspects. Mining, prospecting, hauling are roles that would have fostered teamwork, which help bind a large scale event together. With them effectively being made obsolete, we're in a bit of a quandary.​
l think we're solely relying on Odyssey to offer something for exploration and expeditionary events to work with now.​

So, where does that leave things?

The DSSA is probably better off in the sense that it's now easier to deploy FCs to the furthest reaches of the galaxy. I anticipate, too, that FCs may play a role as ferries taking CMDRs and their ships/modules out and back again (on a single load of fuel) to various DSSA sites.

I can't help feeling, though, that a lot of compelling, small-group oriented game play just disappeared. And that's actually a real loss for the game. It's the downside of the "easy" button.
 
Thanks for sharing, I was a little confused why DSSA wasn't happy with the change. First, there was the complaint that it's hard to get tritium and carriers are stuck, the DSSA project is stalled and we need a fix. Today the fix is to cut the cost per jump in half and it seemed like the DSSA was again unhappy with it. When you put it into the perspective of potentially the loss of excitement for the expeditions and community events, I get your point. I'm a solo explorer and don't plan on purchasing tritium (I'm too far from anywhere to do that anyway). I like to keep tritium in my market as a reserve and just do the 1000t refuel when needed. For me, this just cuts the mining grind in half and I can use that time to explore, rather than feeling like I need to get the FC refueled so I can continue on towards my destination. For someone solo, like me, it's a great change, but as you said It really does minimize the impact for community goals and events.
 
Great points Gnauty - and I do agree with both! Erimus first comment is obviously appropriate to where I am at :cool: - in the final phases of launch prep...

While the mining headaches a few patches ago were totally borked - my FC 'balancing' suggestion would be to let FC 'auto-scoop' any typical OBAFGKM fuel stars (what do we pay the staff for anyway?? :) ) - but being gaseous - it's less energy dense - so A) takes longer to auto-collect [4-6 hrs / jump?] and B) would have less energy - ie shorter jumps (lets say 250 Ly)...The Tritium avalability / market and jump usage stays the same (well- while I welcome the newest efficiency change - I would be Ok in this 'rollback' scenario) - but would be a separate tank...So you could either do a "standard" jump - but with a 4-6 hr cooldown - else 'expedited' via Tritium (and you still need a Cmdr doing fuel transfers / donations)

The comparison / yardstick for this proposal would be the moving megaships (ex Gnosis) - that get around the galaxy - but without any apparent monster mining efforts...so why not the FCs also? (The lead engineer that designed a 5 bn credit fleet carrier - WITHOUT an integrated fuel scoop / means to be self reliant in gathering it's own energy sources - ought to have long been sacked...)

So the 'self-scooping' scenario severs the ball & chain of solo explorers also having to mine their way to the next location - but the speed at which they get there is reduced....unless you have a dedicated crew to filling the tanks etc....The other bonus of 'self-fueling' is that you could be away from your FC - and it could "follow you" like a RC drone - albeit at a slower rate - but still be able to move it - without having to refuel it in person...

The other possibility is to accept the new fuel efficiency (reducing T2 & T3 hotspots to the "nice to know" - but not vital- category) - however introduce some other, new mineral commodity - that is scarce - widely strewn - and in high demand - such that long-distance mining runs become a new type of gameplay...

o7
 
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It reminds me a bit of when the DSS got upgraded in 2.2 to reveal planetary raw material distributions.

It was undoubtedly very convenient for a whole range of exploration purposes - much easier to gather both jumponium and engineering materials - but of course it also basically removed the need for group prospecting efforts on expeditions and surveys in the bubble because anyone could point their scanner at a few planets to find something.

And now of course with the FSS you can get that information for an entire system in minutes. (And with engineering and Guardian boosters most conventional expeditions don't need jumponium anyway)

I guess it's very difficult for a game designed largely around individual commanders doing their own thing to also support meaningful group work, except in very rare cases.
(Of course the DSSA as a whole is still a group project - it wouldn't be that much use with just a single carrier)
 
It's a mixed bag - the cheap movement allows for easy resupply of FC (shame we can't restock FC with ships / modules). But also means there is little point in mapping remote trit overlaps (which would have been a fun group activity).
 
We've gone from;

Tritium mine-able, multiple overlaps valuable, tritium available in quantity for a reasonable price in the Bubble, <?whatever the state of play was in Colonia>, carrier range on a full tank not sufficient to reach everywhere.

To;

Tritium less mine-able, multiple overlaps less valuable, tritium not available for purchase at a reasonable price in the Bubble, tritium not available in Colonia, carrier range on a full tank sufficient to reach everywhere.

Huh. For our "gloriously HIP" purposes we're still not in as convenient a place as we were (i.e. we were more or less free to jump about within about 10 kylies radius of the Bubble, with the only constraints being the tedium of shuttling fuel to the carrier) as now it'll cost an arm and a leg to do so.
 
Great points Gnauty - and I do agree with both! Erimus first comment is obviously appropriate to where I am at :cool: - in the final phases of launch prep...

While the mining headaches a few patches ago were totally borked - my FC 'balancing' suggestion would be to let FC 'auto-scoop' any typical OBAFGKM fuel stars (what do we pay the staff for anyway?? :) ) - but being gaseous - it's less energy dense - so A) takes longer to auto-collect [4-6 hrs / jump?] and B) would have less energy - ie shorter jumps (lets say 250 Ly)...The Tritium avalability / market and jump usage stays the same (well- while I welcome the newest efficiency change - I would be Ok in this 'rollback' scenario) - but would be a separate tank...So you could either do a "standard" jump - but with a 4-6 hr cooldown - else 'expedited' via Tritium (and you still need a Cmdr doing fuel transfers / donations)

The comparison / yardstick for this proposal would be the moving megaships (ex Gnosis) - that get around the galaxy - but without any apparent monster mining efforts...so why not the FCs also? (The lead engineer that designed a 5 bn credit fleet carrier - WITHOUT an integrated fuel scoop / means to be self reliant in gathering it's own energy sources - ought to have long been sacked...)

So the 'self-scooping' scenario severs the ball & chain of solo explorers also having to mine their way to the next location - but the speed at which they get there is reduced....unless you have a dedicated crew to filling the tanks etc....The other bonus of 'self-fueling' is that you could be away from your FC - and it could "follow you" like a RC drone - albeit at a slower rate - but still be able to move it - without having to refuel it in person...

The other possibility is to accept the new fuel efficiency (reducing T2 & T3 hotspots to the "nice to know" - but not vital- category) - however introduce some other, new mineral commodity - that is scarce - widely strewn - and in high demand - such that long-distance mining runs become a new type of gameplay...

o7
It's a very nice idea (y)
Pb is, like always, Fdev don't listen...
From FC beta 1, we asked them to have a passive way, less efficient and slower way to get fuel to move FC not as much as if we were using tritium.
Look now: FC patch 4, 4 updates ONLY focused on mining including this stupid tritium fuel as UNIQUE WAY to power FC🤦‍♂️.
IF they had listened the ideas brang in the forum, both solo and player groups would be happy. Both fast travellers and explorers (slow or fast) would be happy too by either using a standard jump (based on Hydrogen, less efficient, low range:250ly for ex, slower rate to refuel itself or manually by scooping it) or a premium jump (based on tritium, more efficient, long range:500ly or more).
Some days ago they wanted to help DSSA initiative and groups of FC owners and now they killed it for solo FC owners only (and i'm solo but feel sry for DSSA :cry:).
This update is fine for me as i can go ANYWHERE ALONE but it feel like it's too easy as i can jump when i want, having to care of tritium ONLY one time when filling it in the bubble.
I won't have to mine for tritium, i'm ok with it and i TOTALLY HATE mining. But it looks like fdev just kill every good parts of the game and when some players that got bored of waiting anything from them try to keep the game alive, fdev just burn their effort to the ground.
And now another thread about open/solo players will AGAIN happen, forgetting completly that it was because of tritium being the ONLY way to get fuel.
 
Thanks for sharing, I was a little confused why DSSA wasn't happy with the change. First, there was the complaint that it's hard to get tritium and carriers are stuck, the DSSA project is stalled and we need a fix. Today the fix is to cut the cost per jump in half and it seemed like the DSSA was again unhappy with it.
Simple.
You can fix problem in good way, or ty way ;)
Tbh I prefer trit to buy in colonia (even with current prices, maybe I'm crazy but 4k per unit is too low)+ worthy overlaps (now it is few % of difference)+ different values of spots and overlaps for different minerals (in order to avoid crazy few houndred millions from mining).
 
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I actually like it I think
DSSA's purpose is to provide an array to offer save havens throughout the galaxy for explorer/travelers/strangers of all kind, well, something like that's what I thought. :)

Carriers got more movable and so more people move it more around the galaxy. (y)
And so someone always will be in need of Tritium, tanks are never always full, ask your petrol dealer next door or out In the desert. ;) And maybe FDev anyway is still adjusting, we'll see...

Of course I understand if people built stuff around Tritium refuel and other group related deployment operations and such and are disappointed.

Still such expeditions will 'just' be concluded sooner now than later or can be replanned to haulage operations or whatever...
But there always and now will be more guests to accommodate :)
 
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Fringe benefit of the changes: the range at which you can call your carrier for an emergency rescue (if, say, you carelessly neutron jumped to a system with no way back) is doubled.
 
As sort of a counter viewpoint, this change has really saved me. I had just enough fuel to get back to Colonia (which doesn't have much tritium available). Previously this would have meant a huge heap of mining that I'd have to do to refuel my carrier out in the black. Now I'll need to do exactly half as much.

I was pretty much dead in the water before. Now after this change I think I'll be able to manage to continue moving my carrier about without feeling like I'm spending all my time mining for tritium.

So overall it's a win for me. I get to keep doing the fun exploration without as much tedious mining. And since I like to play this game for fun, this works out!
 
But I agree that players should have a greater effect on the markets than they currently do.
In practice that would probably mean far less Tritium, not more.

The bubble NPC economy generates about 6 million tonnes of Tritium a day, and I think the total player-mined goods of any sort per day must be quite a bit below that - even most mining CGs were maybe 1% of that rate.
(Colonia generates a bit over 1000t per day and I'm not sure there's that much being mined locally in general, though it's a more reasonable total for the player population to meet)
 
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