Fleet Carriers Update - Beta 2 - Upcoming Changes

[Agony_Aunt]

There's still a lot of grumbling about upkeep costs, but what is it now, something like 14M a week?

For something decently kitted out, for exploration for example, it was about a billion a year. Not sure how much that is reduced by no longer needing a shipyard to store your own fleet, altohugh it was one of the more expensive modules that I would have wanted.

So a figure between 500 million and a billion per year. Still rather pricy for me, especially if taking a break from the game so not earning any credits, just losing them through not playing.

The X milllion per week doesn't sound too much, as long as you are playing for a number of hours every week. It soon adds up if you take a break though or are doing activities that don't earn much (or any) money.

 

[Cmdr Travers]

I really hope Frontier allow us to add additional storage to carriers as an installable service. On a long exploration mission you'd collect so many Low Temperature Diamonds and Void Opals through just mining Tritium that, with nowhere to sell them other than Sagittarius A* (if you can even sell them there, I don't know) there'd likely be no room left for the Tritium to get you home unless you dumped or ignored a load... which would be a shame. An extra 225,000t would be nice, and you'd only pay for it if you needed it

 

[aRJay]

Sorry man, you're in the minority there. The 17.5% minority to be specific.

because yes, the overwhelming majority of players hate upkeep as it is.

Well the majority of the 3055 who bothered to take the survey anyway.

 

[Skatez69]

For something decently kitted out, for exploration for example, it was about a billion a year. Not sure how much that is reduced by no longer needing a shipyard to store your own fleet, altohugh it was one of the more expensive modules that I would have wanted.

So a figure between 500 million and a billion per year. Still rather pricy for me, especially if taking a break from the game so not earning any credits, just losing them through not playing.

The X milllion per week doesn't sound too much, as long as you are playing for a number of hours every week. It soon adds up if you take a break though or are doing activities that don't earn much (or any) money.

my point is though, do an hour's mining and then you don't need to play again for the rest of the month, or even the one after that. You're covered. If you aren't playing this game for an hour every two months then perhaps carriers aren't for you.

 

[Cmdr Travers]

So no changes that provide an incentive for a non-owner to actually visit/use a fleet carrier?

In the bubble you'd be correct, I plan on leaving a carrier out in the void though with repair and cartographics facilities, and if the game will allow, a commodity market that will pay handsomely for Low Temperature Diamonds and Void Opals that I can still make more money on later to pay for the upkeep and make a profit. So out in the void I'd say they'll be very valuable to other players

 

[Kekkonshiki]

my point is though, do an hour's mining and then you don't need to play again for the rest of the month, or even the one after that. You're covered. If you aren't playing this game for an hour every two months then perhaps carriers aren't for you.

Correct. I don't think people are actually running the numbers here. I made 83M last night doing massacre missions in CZs. That'll keep my FC going for a month.

 

[aRJay]

Having slept on this I, once again, feel like I've been overly grumpy (I think it's lockdown, it's turning me into a right salty sod at the moment). There's a big difference between a system full of active fleet carriers (where you might be able to do things like trade at them or jump on board for the next hyperspace jump) and a system full of derelict carriers (where the owner might not even been playing the game anymore).

As you were FD ... nice job with all the changes!

I am still somewhat concerned tho' about the clogging up of system maps with fleet carriers. In beta 1 some systems had over 150 carriers in them. I wonder if it ought to be changed so the system map only shows carriers you have permission to dock at? And maybe a filter to hide them altogether?

Yes the filters in the nav panel and elsewhere should be able to separate carriers from stations at least.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

my point is though, do an hour's mining and then you don't need to play again for the rest of the month, or even the one after that. You're covered. If you aren't playing this game for an hour every two months then perhaps carriers aren't for you.

So basically, enforced mining? And specifically, LTD mining? I don't enjoy core mining so much. How much is possible surface mining now? 60 million a month, a bit steep i would say to maintain my level of money. If we avoid the most cheesy ways of getting money, you're looking at quite a few hours of play to get 60 million. If i was just running missions from my home system, maybe a few million per hour? 10 million max? So 6 hours minimum. Now what if i take a break for 2 months, or 3 months, or 6 months?

Or people shouldn't take extended breaks from the game?

 

[TorTorden_VR]

Correct. I don't think people are actually running the numbers here. I made 83M last night doing massacre missions in CZs. That'll keep my FC going for a month.

I suspect these people heard "150 million per week" at the start of beta 1 and hasn't stopped foaming at the mouth or let blood settle out of their ears to have realised it's not a 150 anymore but 15-20 million.

At this point my SLF pilot is going to cost me more per week than a carrier.

 

[TorTorden_VR]

So basically, enforced mining? And specifically, LTD mining? I don't enjoy core mining so much. How much is possible surface mining now? 60 million a month, a bit steep i would say to maintain my level of money. If we avoid the most cheesy ways of getting money, you're looking at quite a few hours of play to get 60 million. If i was just running missions from my home system, maybe a few million per hour? 10 million max? So 6 hours minimum. Now what if i take a break for 2 months, or 3 months, or 6 months?

Or people shouldn't take extended breaks from the game?

Regular, good ol laser mining is how you do LTD mining.

I take maybe an hour and a half to get about 260t that then sells for about 1-1.5 mil each.
In less than 10 hours of that you have more than a years upkeep.

 

[Kekkonshiki]

So basically, enforced mining? And specifically, LTD mining? I don't enjoy core mining so much. How much is possible surface mining now? 60 million a month, a bit steep i would say to maintain my level of money. If we avoid the most cheesy ways of getting money, you're looking at quite a few hours of play to get 60 million. If i was just running missions from my home system, maybe a few million per hour? 10 million max? So 6 hours minimum. Now what if i take a break for 2 months, or 3 months, or 6 months?

Or people shouldn't take extended breaks from the game?

Or people shouldn't consider buying a fleet carrier unless they can also afford to cover a significant amount of down-time?

The game is called Elite for a reason.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Having slept on this I, once again, feel like I've been overly grumpy (I think it's lockdown, it's turning me into a right salty sod at the moment). There's a big difference between a system full of active fleet carriers (where you might be able to do things like trade at them or jump on board for the next hyperspace jump) and a system full of derelict carriers (where the owner might not even been playing the game anymore).

As you were FD ... nice job with all the changes!

I am still somewhat concerned tho' about the clogging up of system maps with fleet carriers. In beta 1 some systems had over 150 carriers in them. I wonder if it ought to be changed so the system map only shows carriers you have permission to dock at? And maybe a filter to hide them altogether?

A filter on the nav panel and system map would be ideal in my view.

 

[Sunyavadin]

Well the majority of the 3055 who bothered to take the survey anyway.

Or who knew it existed in the first place. I'm guessing it was more widely circulated in youtube videos or on reddit.

 

[Sunyavadin]

my point is though, do an hour's mining and then you don't need to play again for the rest of the month, or even the one after that. You're covered. If you aren't playing this game for an hour every two months then perhaps carriers aren't for you.

Not even just mining. It's a common misconception among those who don't really understand this game that mining is the only way to make this kind of money. Presumably because a majority of these are newer players who came in after 3.3 and the introduction of a series of mining gold rushes since then, who see these talked about as the main means of acquiring this sort of money. Passengers, data missions, etc. These can all pay enough to cover carrier running costs for an hour or so's work in a month.

 

[Cmdr Travers]

Not even just mining. It's a common misconception among those who don't really understand this game that mining is the only way to make this kind of money. Presumably because a majority of these are newer players who came in after 3.3 and the introduction of a series of mining gold rushes since then, who see these talked about as the main means of acquiring this sort of money. Passengers, data missions, etc. These can all pay enough to cover carrier running costs for an hour or so's work in a month.

I don't really get the point of owning a carrier unless you'd take it out of the bubble. It's easy to leave your fleet parked at a station for free. I can see a use for squadrons though.

 

[Sunyavadin]

Not me. There's no reason to try to keep a carrier permanently now. Just hire one for the duration of a trip. There's no longer any reason to compromise on services to try to save upkeep. Fuel is probably no longer an issue either. All carrier management gameplay has effectively been scrapped.

If the rumoured leaks about base-building, etc. were true, Frontier must be in full panic mode over New Era now, after a vocal portion of the community has delivered a resounding "NO!" to the idea of any kind of meaningful management mechanics.

 

[Crazy Joe]

There's still a lot of grumbling about upkeep costs, but what is it now, something like 14M a week? Just a single assassination wing mission can net you 30M+ and can be completed in an hour or less. So an hour's game play gets your upkeep for a fortnight. Mining, at the moment you can earn 200M+ in an hour, most likely dropping to 100M+ once the update hits. So an hour mining gets you upkeep for over 2 months. Exploration I don't really know what that pays, but I hear passenger missions are rather lucrative.

So basically no matter how you choose to fly, an hour's game play can sort you out for at least a couple of weeks.

"But it's upkeep so I don't want one"... then don't get one, but don't blame the upkeep. Try to keep things in perspective, choose your battles. Personally, carriers as they are at the moment look really viable.

That only works inside or near the bubble. Outside of the bubble you'd have a much harder time earning those credits, so you have to preload your carrier's account ahead of time with a significant amount of credits or constantly fly back to the bubble to earn those credits or have an almost full time job as an explorer (because that pays significantly less and makes you go further afield each time because that's the only way to earn more credits from exploring as you are using up nearby paying systems fairly rapidly).

And since Fleet Carriers don't make a profit in the current setup, you'd be basically having to play constantly to keep your fleet carrier.

 

[aRJay]

Or who knew it existed in the first place. I'm guessing it was more widely circulated in youtube videos or on reddit.

Quite possibly, I only use the forums and although I saw it there I didn't take the survey as I hadn't tested the Fleet Carrier fully.

 

[Crazy Joe]

If the rumoured leaks about base-building, etc. were true, Frontier must be in full panic mode over New Era now, after a vocal portion of the community has delivered a resounding "NO!" to the idea of any kind of meaningful management mechanics.

What meaningful management mechanics? They've created a money sink that requires constant, high intensity gameplay with Fleet Carriers. If that is synonymous to "management mechanics" to you, I feel very sorry for you. Most of us have a life outside of this game, we're not looking for a second in-game job that requires us to invest significant amounts of time and effort just to keep in-game assets.

The only management of services on your carrier require you to go to a system that allows you to manage those services. You can't shutdown/start-up any of them if you are not in one of those systems.

That isn't the Elite Dangerous that David Braben promised us during the Kickstarter.

If the current Fleet Carrier design decisions are indicative of what they are going to foist on us for base building, then that is D.O.A for most of us.
I hope they learn a lesson from this whole debacle about which are and which are not acceptable game play mechanics for the majority of us.

 

[Crazy Joe]

my point is though, do an hour's mining and then you don't need to play again for the rest of the month, or even the one after that. You're covered. If you aren't playing this game for an hour every two months then perhaps carriers aren't for you.

And again you seem to forget that this only works in or near the bubble. In the deep dark sectors of space where there is no market this will not work. The only option you have there is to load the carriers account with years worth of credits before you make the trip, otherwise you'll have to go back to one of the bubbles to make significant credits to finance your fleet carrier for the next months.