This ^^
Flight Model: Has FDev Lost Their Way?
- Thread starter Frenotx
- Start date
This ^^
Just don't get me started on Skylanders...
If the Rubber Dingy is carrying people armed with the right weapons then they could theoretically take out a large warship.
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Can people carry nukes?
Quite a long thread. And like many others i do agree that the current flight model is weighted significally in favour of the big ships.
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But the really important question would be: how would you fix that, without just spinning the wheel and making another size of ships dominant?
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I mean, i love my Courier, so turning small ships into "the best" choice would absolutely benefit me, but it would be disastrous for the health of the game. I personally follow the philosophy that the player should count, not the ship. (The ship and it's outfit is merely the tool of choice. ) Yet any suggestion i have seen to rework the flight model holds the significant risk of killing off the big ships in favour of smaller ships.
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So the real question is not "is the flight model broken", but it rather is "how could it be fixed, without creating even more and even bigger problems?"
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But the really important question would be: how would you fix that, without just spinning the wheel and making another size of ships dominant?
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I mean, i love my Courier, so turning small ships into "the best" choice would absolutely benefit me, but it would be disastrous for the health of the game. I personally follow the philosophy that the player should count, not the ship. (The ship and it's outfit is merely the tool of choice. ) Yet any suggestion i have seen to rework the flight model holds the significant risk of killing off the big ships in favour of smaller ships.
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So the real question is not "is the flight model broken", but it rather is "how could it be fixed, without creating even more and even bigger problems?"
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Ideally by developing roles.
Everyone basically treats each ship like a different flavour of their personal limo service. A big ship is basically yet another ship but with moar weapons and moar space. The distinction is so small that people have regularly asked for big ships to be able to land at outposts so they can do their day-to-day data runs in their 'conda or Cutter.
IMO that's a bit of a joke. I'd like to think that big ships can be treated more like big ships: slower/less agile, almost awkward to use, and genuinely encourages multicrewing to get efficient running of the ship. In combat, smaller ships should really only be chipping away at them (okay we're not far off this bit) but the larger ship can rapidly hurt smaller ships that get caught, as well as effectively fighting for objectives - e.g. attacking or defending a base. But it shouldn't be easy to throw the big ship around like a slightly overweight medium ship.
Of course, I'm well aware that it won't happen. FD are kinda big on people grinding out to a 'conda in a week and using it as their personal limo.
As the bigger picture goes...a lot of damage would be undone simply for toning down modifications. But that cannot happen unless grandfathered modules are removed and I don't see FD taking that backwards step.
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I'm going to quote Luke Skywalker. "But that's impossible"!
I'm serious about the compromise I posted above. I don't want to lose ANY of the engineered characteristics all ships currently have in terms of FA-Off. What I wrote above would solve it when fighting in ships and when the majority of players are doing other things.
I still think there is nothing wrong with the flight model at all, and that PvP considerations should not ruin the flight model again for the majority of players who do not PvP.
We know.
As your suggestion is at least serious in tone, I'll answer though: initially it's not a terrible idea. Unfortunately you have to realise that players getting caught by other players is intended, and sometimes very necessary. Piracy - a highly discussed aspect of ED from day 1, and whether people like it or not, a highly valid playstyle. Ability to bounty hunt PvP murderers - even you must agree with this. All and more ruined if you could travel faster sans hardpoints deployed. Let's not kneecap PvP bounty hunting just as we're getting it going, aye?
And the avenue for abuse is palpable. I can already think of multiple ways this can be taken advantage of in combat, including macros to retract/deploy hardpoints mid combat to allow for synth/re-establishing reverski position/retreating until shields recover/evading missiles flawlessly etc., as well as avenues for abuse outside combat - notably escaping C&P or in mission abuse.
Simply put, I don't see the problem with variety. Why is it anyone's problem if the game provides a couple of ships that are truly big/bulky, and cannot race around canyons like a flea on Thargoid crack? Why do all ships HAVE to handle the same, to appease a few players that would like to see a cutter shape on their HUD instead of an iCourier shape when canyon racing? "But introduce new ships instead that are truly bulky" - and then players will complain they don't handle like a vulture.
Pick the ship for the job if ya ask me. No sense in making ships all one and the same thing. What this thread addresses, in some way, is that very issue: that characteristics are being blended out.
So it's not that "PvPers is ruining the game for everyone else": the game can seek a modicum of balance and diversity without it being attributed to "them nasty griffing PvPers".
If you really have that much of an interest in evading PvP encounters, to the point you want them to become optional...well, FD thought of you from the moment the game was developed. Simply exit to menu, and hit "Solo mode"
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We know.
As your suggestion is at least serious in tone, I'll answer though: initially it's not a terrible idea. Unfortunately you have to realise that players getting caught by other players is intended, and sometimes very necessary. Piracy - a highly discussed aspect of ED from day 1, and whether people like it or not, a highly valid playstyle. Ability to bounty hunt PvP murderers - even you must agree with this. All and more ruined if you could travel faster sans hardpoints deployed. Let's not kneecap PvP bounty hunting just as we're getting it going, aye?
And the avenue for abuse is palpable. I can already think of multiple ways this can be taken advantage of in combat, including macros to retract/deploy hardpoints mid combat to allow for synth/re-establishing reverski position/retreating until shields recover/evading missiles flawlessly etc., as well as avenues for abuse outside combat - notably escaping C&P or in mission abuse.
Simply put, I don't see the problem with variety. Why is it anyone's problem if the game provides a couple of ships that are truly big/bulky, and cannot race around canyons like a flea on Thargoid crack? Why do all ships HAVE to handle the same, to appease a few players that would like to see a cutter shape on their HUD instead of an iCourier shape when canyon racing? "But introduce new ships instead that are truly bulky" - and then players will complain they don't handle like a vulture.
Pick the ship for the job if ya ask me. No sense in making ships all one and the same thing. What this thread addresses, in some way, is that very issue: that characteristics are being blended out.
So it's not that "PvPers is ruining the game for everyone else": the game can seek a modicum of balance and diversity without it being attributed to "them nasty griffing PvPers".
If you really have that much of an interest in evading PvP encounters, to the point you want them to become optional...well, FD thought of you from the moment the game was developed. Simply exit to menu, and hit "Solo mode"
To paraphrase your answer:
" I want more explosions"
Got it. [up]
Do not touch my long range weapons ever... that is a hanging offence
On a more serious note, if you want close quarters combat... that is what CQC mode is for... main game is meant to accommodate a wide variety of play styles not just the dog-fighting contingent.
FTR I am serious about not touching my long-range weapons though.
Don't need nukes, but theoretically yes.Can people carry nukes?
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[video=youtube;iyQSebHSve4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyQSebHSve4[/video]
What alterations would you like from the current FA-off options (apart from it bloody well staying off rather than constantly switching back on!)
Good fight... but that's one slow Corvette... what drives did you have on your viper MK 4?
A-rated dirty drives. Pretty standard roll. Right around 130%. Still haven't got around to converting those to the new system and getting my standard-issue god roll... Really should do that.
I believe morbad's corvette was set up with armoured drives, possibly even B-rated. It was designed to be able to fight with its shields down, so he had to make some concessions on speed for survivability. You're best off asking him for the details though, as I'm just going on memory and that fight was from a while ago now.
For one thing, stop thinking about balance and think about roles like happens in reality. Small ships are nimble and maneuver quickly. Large ships have massive firepower, hulls and shields so your Eagle might dodge everything but good luck trying to take down the shields.
ED is "cars in space" - there's no reality even attempted to get things rights. It's basically you bring your car and i'll bring mine and we'll show them off. Why are there no classes of ships? Where are the gunships, the carriers, the firgates, the destroyers? Nothing in ED has a "role" - every ship can do everything.
Not entirely true...
While most ships can be outfitted for almost any task, most of the base ship designs are targeted around one of 4 activities: Trade, Exploration, Combat, and Luxury Passenger Transportation. The last one is a particularly niche role in nature and while other craft may be able to carry passengers only the particular niche role ships can carry luxury passengers (FWIW).
There is no real distinction between larger craft and smaller craft other than durability, manoeuvrability, speed, and weapons. We effectively have a choice where combat is concerned between Light Fighters, Medium Fighters, Heavy Fighters, and Very Heavy Fighters. If you want to get involved with proper capital craft then ED is not the game for you.