Forum closing?

[Ozric]

To start I have absolutely no issues with people voicing their opposition to closing this section of the forum. I understand that some people are upset about it closing, but I would like to remind you that the team and especially the community team, do care about this community! They are real people who put their all into supporting and helping people, try to remember that in you comments please.

There's a lot of talk about the good old days of Planet Coaster and the old streams (I went to the launch event), they were good times but you also have to remember that was 9 years ago. Frontier is a very different company now with a much larger portfolio. Back then there were 2 games. Now Frontier support 7 franchises with a total of 11 games, one more coming out in a couple of months, and one more next year. And after all the company has been through in the last couple of years, well, I think it would be obvious.

The planet Coaster 2 section of the Discord already has far more interaction than these forums do, and it's been open 3 months less. You'll also notice that JWE3 hasn't had a forum section added. Make of that what I will, I make of it that it's the direction of travel for new fandom interaction.

If you understand it then keep the forums accessible here.

As you well know we are volunteer moderators, and have no power to do anything.

I'm very happy to read that, but can you please say more about why you're confident about it?

Because we had a small discussion on it. I am not going to go into details.

I haven't seen that feature on Discord that you can make forum like threads... is this a Nitro only feature?

No it isn't.

Well that's a consolation, considering that Frontier stick to what they say and don't change plans.

No indeed, and people don't just stick around on the forum so they can complain and try to put the boot in at every opportunity.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

To start I have absolutely no issues with people voicing their opposition to closing this section of the forum. I understand that some people are upset about it closing, but I would like to remind you that the team and especially the community team, do care about this community! They are real people who put their all into supporting and helping people, try to remember that in you comments please.

I think we all understand that, but i'm pretty certain this decision was not taken at the level of the community team, but at the level of the bean counters.

 

[Kvvame]

The self sabotage around this game needs to be studied at this point

 

[Garix]

I think we all understand that, but i'm pretty certain this decision was not taken at the level of the community team, but at the level of the bean counters.

If they were closing the entire forum I'd agree, not sure that closing one single section of an already active forum will save much of anything

 

[Agony_Aunt]

If they were closing the entire forum I'd agree, not sure that closing one single section of an already active forum will save much of anything

This is just the start. JWE3 is already on Discord.

 

[Garix]

This is just the start. JWE3 is already on Discord.

Oh I fully expect these forums to go the way of the Dodo within a couple of years.
Will be a shame

 

[Neilski]

If they were closing the entire forum I'd agree, not sure that closing one single section of an already active forum will save much of anything

Fair point, but given @Ozric's comments above:

And after all the company has been through in the last couple of years, well, I think it would be obvious.

...which kinda makes it sound like a financially motivated change despite what Paul said, I would hope that FD and the volunteer moderators are able to understand why forum users aren't so ready to trust that (a) it's for the best for PC2 gamers and (b) it won't happen to other parts of the forum.

Like I hinted above though, I expect that Reddit traffic for each affected game will massively increase, helping those unwilling/unable to use Discord.

(To be clear: I do absolutely believe that Ozric has been told that it won't happen to the ED forum, but I also absolutely believe that that decision will change - maybe in less than a year. We'll see... FWIW, I've run a forum elsewhere and I know it's a fair bit of work in multiple areas, but I also know that Discord doesn't and can't replace a forum, because we use both and they serve different audiences for different things.)

 

[Wagi]

I'm unsure what it being 9 years later or Frontier being a very different company really can explain decisions like this one to close these forums.

The fact that Frontier has more franchises would lean one to assume they also have more need for communication with the players of those franchises, not fewer. Nine years hasn't changed the obvious passion people have for this game, nor should it have changed the passion that Frontier used to show in connecting to those same people.

I have no doubt that individuals on the community teams are doing their best within the limitations and directions they are given from Frontier, but there seems to be a deep and growing disconnect between Frontier and many of the players of PC2. Unfortunately I think Community team members are placed in the middle of that widening chasm, and they shouldn't be. I also have no doubt that some members of the team creating the game are in the same boat. I think that somewhat explains why this game often seems to display a split personality...sometimes innovative and brilliant - other times seeming rushed and haphazard, willing to cut corners at times.

Yes, Frontier IS a different company...and that's a large part of the problem. Sadly those of us who have been in the theme park/roller coaster gaming community for YEARS - more than 25 for me alone - have seen this play before, and it didn't turn out well for other companies. And that's both sad and frustrating to see it starting to happen again.

But then I don't think the opinions of long-time players matter to Frontier much anymore...

 

[Cosmo]

As you well know we are volunteer moderators, and have no power to do anything.

Yes, but you can contact the person who decided this and tell them it's a very bad idea.

Oh I fully expect these forums to go the way of the Dodo within a couple of years.
Will be a shame

That's a huge mistake. These forums are a treasure of information with interesting discussions, tips, opinions. These forums support the game communities and potential new players (customers). A lot of people (the majority of the fanbase) do not use Discord, it cannot be searched via Google or Bing etc, nor archived for the internet.

The fact that Frontier has more franchises would lean one to assume they also have more need for communication with the players of those franchises, not fewer. Nine years hasn't changed the obvious passion people have for this game, nor should it have changed the passion that Frontier used to show in connecting to those same people.

Seconded. Fanbases are destroyed by closing the social platforms. This hurts their (potential) consumers and supporters which will result in less game sales for Fdev.

 

[Nioell]

I'm unsure what it being 9 years later or Frontier being a very different company really can explain decisions like this one to close these forums.

The fact that Frontier has more franchises would lean one to assume they also have more need for communication with the players of those franchises, not fewer. Nine years hasn't changed the obvious passion people have for this game, nor should it have changed the passion that Frontier used to show in connecting to those same people.

I have no doubt that individuals on the community teams are doing their best within the limitations and directions they are given from Frontier, but there seems to be a deep and growing disconnect between Frontier and many of the players of PC2. Unfortunately I think Community team members are placed in the middle of that widening chasm, and they shouldn't be. I also have no doubt that some members of the team creating the game are in the same boat. I think that somewhat explains why this game often seems to display a split personality...sometimes innovative and brilliant - other times seeming rushed and haphazard, willing to cut corners at times.

Yes, Frontier IS a different company...and that's a large part of the problem. Sadly those of us who have been in the theme park/roller coaster gaming community for YEARS - more than 25 for me alone - have seen this play before, and it didn't turn out well for other companies. And that's both sad and frustrating to see it starting to happen again.

But then I don't think the opinions of long-time players matter to Frontier much anymore...

Couldn't agree more. It's pretty much always the same when this circle happens:

Company is in close communication with the players and what they want and do their best to implement that in their games -> games turn into a huge success, players are happy to keep playing and buying said companies products.

Company starts to see $$ more than anything, cuts off communication, loses track of what their players really care about and cut corners to rush unfinished products out -> players are disappointed, stop buying and games keep flopping causing profits to take a nose dive time and again.

Instead of realizing their mistake and going back to doing their utmost to keep players happy and ensure their games are a success company starts cutting even more corners all in the name of $$ becuase that worked so well before -> even more players give up hope and leave causing games to fail and the companies rep to take a huge hit as well.

And thus continues the never ending spiral and we all know where that leads.

When will these people high up finally get that to make money you need to keep your playerbase happy and not do the exact opposite of what they want?

 

[rct-uwe1]

This is just the start. JWE3 is already on Discord.

Yes, but it's not released yet and hasn't a huge pack of existing topics like PC2 has and other players still could use.
And like Garix said, why aren't they shutting down all existing forums?

The planet Coaster 2 section of the Discord already has far more interaction than these forums do, and it's been open 3 months less. You'll also notice that JWE3 hasn't had a forum section

This is not about you or other moderators here...

The PC2 discord has 43 suggestion topics now (many of them are unreplied) and all of them are well known here. Plus a long list of absolutely chaotic chat messages (most of them probably aren't usefull for anybody). I'm assuming that nobody there would have a look at what was posted an hour ago and just place the same question again...

If you would start a new official forum for PC2, it would have as much traffic as discord has because people don't see their opinions, questions or suggestions posted there before and want to make it public!

I only see one reason why they are doing this to PC2 (only! PZ? ED? F1?, no it's just PC2)...
It's placing bad critics about PC2 behind a (yes) little barrier called discord.

If they would have done a good job with PC2 and there wouldn't exist as much bad critics about it, they probably wouldn't close the forum.
As it is now, they're verschlimmbessern (messing up while updating) the game with every update and therefore bad critics won't stop.

Saying "but JWE3 is on discord, only" is a bad excuse. It might be a decision to swap the communities of future games to a new platform, but it seems a bit like preventing Frontier from generally accessible bad critics if they'll mess up that release, too.

I still don't think that sim game players want to use discord to discuss about the games...

I won't!

 

[_Tilly-Tony_]

"and people don't just stick around on the forum so they can complain and try to put the boot in at every opportunity."

That comment shows exactly what the dev and mod team think of the PC2 forums and its users. And explains why its only the Pc2 forums closing!

(I would have got a warning for a comment like that!)

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

That comment shows exactly what the dev and mod team think of the PC2 forums and its users.

Yeah, it's not. If you know you know, but if you don't, don't speculate.

(emphasis by me)

 

[Ozric]

Fair point, but given @Ozric's comments above:

...which kinda makes it sound like a financially motivated change despite what Paul said,

No that's not what I meant at all. Clearly it's not obvious to you that the reduction in staff numbers has a knock on effect, especially when the team is stretched so thin. Maybe it's just me that sees that.

I only see one reason why they are doing this to PC2 (only! PZ? ED? F1?, no it's just PC2)...
It's placing bad critics about PC2 behind a (yes) little barrier called discord.

F1 Manager has had it's own Discord for longer than the forum section. Nothing I could say would dissuade you though if you truly believe that second point.

Saying "but JWE3 is on discord, only" is a bad excuse. It might be a decision to swap the communities of future games to a new platform, but it seems a bit like preventing Frontier from generally accessible bad critics if they'll mess up that release, too.

Paul explained why You can choose not to believe him, sure.

And that's both sad and frustrating to see it starting to happen again.

I had exactly the same experience with Elite 7 years ago, I was on the MMO merry-go-round once again. Didn't work out badly at all for the game in the end, even if it's not how I would like.

That comment shows exactly what the dev and mod team think of the PC2 forums and its users.

(I would have got a warning for a comment like that!)

No it doesn't. It shows my personal observation of parts of the Elite forum over 11 years, in a humourous way. I am able to think independently and have my own opinions.

In an ideal world we wouldn't be in this situation, I prefer to use forums for game discussions and Discords for communities. The difference is I understand the reasons that have been explained here, and don't see it as a personal attack on one community. I've expressed my thoughts on the matter, just as I have done multiple times with other decisions made around games over the years. And now I work out how to make the change work for me.

 

[Helmut Grokenberger]

In an ideal world we wouldn't be in this situation, I prefer to use forums for game discussions and Discords for communities.

I guess it is a classic case of users not knowing what disaster they chose. The "web" is out (it's so 1990s), and Discord is the hip kid on the block. But as a platform for structured communication and preservation of information, it's a trainwreck - not to mention being closed off from the general public. Yet people prefer to use it. And probably complain quite a bit later why tthe information they seek cannot be found publically.

I guess people chose their poison and companies react.

 

[Nemmie]

This news makes me sad.

I really like Discord but it's no replacement for the forums.

Not everyone wants to create accounts for different platforms. And this is the beauty of the forums. For those who didn't want to sign up and maybe didn't have the confidence to contribute, could still access the forums and feel part of the community.

Planco 1 definitely felt like it was born out of community. That whole period during development, early access and beyond launch was amazing.
These forums gave so much.
I was invited to Frontier Studios in Cambridge a couple of times and some official Frontier events where I met some of the amazing people I'd met on the forums. It also gave me the chance to get to know the Frontier Devs and Community Managers. I was also given early access to some of the DLC packs. None of this would have happened if it wasn't for the forums.

For me, the biggest thing I want to thank the forums for is the amazing people I've met here. This is the one thing that was really magical about it. The real sense of community and friendship was unlike any other.

I've met people here that I count as real friends who I genuine love. I just got back from Germany on Friday after visiting Crowdpleaser and a couple of weeks ago, I met up with Gregorburns when he came to my hometown for a short break. I know people from many different countries who I would have never met without these forums.

So thanks Frontier and thank you forums. I'm gonna miss it here.

Hopefully see you all around,

Malc

 

[rct-uwe1]

No that's not what I meant at all. Clearly it's not obvious to you that the reduction in staff numbers has a knock on effect, especially when the team is stretched so thin. Maybe it's just me that sees that.


F1 Manager has had it's own Discord for longer than the forum section. Nothing I could say would dissuade you though if you truly believe that second point.

Paul explained why You can choose not to believe him, sure.


I had exactly the same experience with Elite 7 years ago, I was on the MMO merry-go-round once again. Didn't work out badly at all for the game in the end, even if it's not how I would like.


No it doesn't. It shows my personal observation of parts of the Elite forum over 11 years, in a humourous way. I am able to think independently and have my own opinions.

In an ideal world we wouldn't be in this situation, I prefer to use forums for game discussions and Discords for communities. The difference is I understand the reasons that have been explained here, and don't see it as a personal attack on one community. I've expressed my thoughts on the matter, just as I have done multiple times with other decisions made around games over the years. And now I work out how to make the change work for me.

For me, Frontier has low credibility related to PC2...
A lot of real engagement has to be done before I would change my mind.

 

[danny420]

i just want to say how frustrated and sad i am. This is not the frontier that i got to know 8-10 years ago. This is not the frontier that i thought to myself, hey this dev is going to do things different than all these other big companies!
This is not the frontier that i once saw put so much dedication, passion and attentiont to detail into their games. this is not the frontier that once made streams with devs from the different teams and actually talked to their community.

killing the forums for me is killing the most vocal part of criticism towards the game, thats how i feel based not only on the decision to close the forums but base on many other decision made, or therefore not made, over the past 9 months. im not making any assumptions or accusations, thats how i feel.
if the only thing being announce next stream is some DLC then for me this journey will be finished for the foresesable future. i havent been playing much planco 2 anyway lately. many other games out there that caught my interest and are worth spending my time with.

i was realy disapointed and sad at release, and i cant realy say i feel different right now than 9 months ago. and that is not to disvalue anything that frontier has put into the updates, but more related to what ive been talking about and giving feedback on for all this time.

goodbye to everyone and special thanks to all the people who kept looking into my wonderverse park thread, even the ones who havent written anything there but simply looked at my screenshots posted.

 

[_Tilly-Tony_]

No that's not what I meant at all. Clearly it's not obvious to you that the reduction in staff numbers has a knock on effect, especially when the team is stretched so thin. Maybe it's just me that sees that.


F1 Manager has had it's own Discord for longer than the forum section. Nothing I could say would dissuade you though if you truly believe that second point.

Paul explained why You can choose not to believe him, sure.


I had exactly the same experience with Elite 7 years ago, I was on the MMO merry-go-round once again. Didn't work out badly at all for the game in the end, even if it's not how I would like.


No it doesn't. It shows my personal observation of parts of the Elite forum over 11 years, in a humourous way. I am able to think independently and have my own opinions.

In an ideal world we wouldn't be in this situation, I prefer to use forums for game discussions and Discords for communities. The difference is I understand the reasons that have been explained here, and don't see it as a personal attack on one community. I've expressed my thoughts on the matter, just as I have done multiple times with other decisions made around games over the years. And now I work out how to make the change work for me.

If its an observation made over 11 years in the ED forums and isnt the sentiment thats come from the "Talk" the mod and dev team had about the future of these forums (which i believe to be closer to the truth), then why is the ED forums staying put and its only this forums being shut?

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Maybe we should make our of unofficial FD forums, which blackjack and .....