Forum noob: ED is perfect, yet I don't play

[Cmdr_Prussian]

Can we stop with these answers making stupid assumptions? WHy do you think people are here for, if not for their love of space? Now if it were just about space and space travel, there are better solutions than ED out there. Space engine is much better at being a galaxy simulator, Orbiter and KSP are better at simulating space travel.
People play (or want to play) ED because it's a game. Unfortunately, although it's a very decent galaxy simulator, as a game it's quite underwhelming. Just because you absolutely love space doesn't mean you can't be critical of the gameplay aspect of a game.

That would be great. I am the most interested in space flight person I know xD
Not going into details, but suffice it to say that everything revolving around aviation or spaceflight or science or astronomy captures greatly my attention and I follow it on all the channels there are.
I've had many hours of fun with KSP + realism mods and BSG is my favorite show ever.

So no, me lacking passion for "space" is definitely not the case. If it was, ED would have literally 5 players.

 

[Commander Biscuit]

Wow this has become a large topic.

A response to all the "role play" / "make your own goals" kinds of comments: Yes. That is all well and true. But maybe I'd rather not have to invent a reason to do something. Maybe I'd like the game to present it for me at least a little bit, because I can't think for myself

EDIT: I'm not wanting to be the hero and save the galaxy or anything. Just.....I dunno, maybe more... substance? I dunno. It's hard to define, but I know that it's kinda lacking something. Oh well. I'll still play anyway and probably have fun with it, despite that "issue", and the Horizons-cost issue I'm currently brooding over.

You're right, Elite is missing something but I'm not sure exactly what it is or how it could be added.

Horizons will be out soon, but the new gameplay added will work pretty much the same way as the old. In that it's procedurally generated and after doing a few missions, you're no longer reading the mission or caring about it, and you're just grinding.

This is pretty much an inherent feature of a game which is either an MMO or procedurally generated and Elite is both, so it has a lot to overcome when producing gameplay that has "soul". It can have some moments both exhilarating and awe inspiring, but for me at least those are fairly rare, since self preservation in a pvp environment, and making money being the gameplay focus aren't really conducive to letting the player stop and admire what little scenery there is (it's space, I can't fault the dev team for that!)

 

[Windscreen Smudge]

You've got plenty of friends you can play with? Look into making your own minor player faction and pushing out it's influence. You can do this by engaging in pretty much any gameplay style there is: trading, combat, piracy, whatever you want, so you're free to change up your gameplay style to avoid having it feel like a grind.

Get some money, and then avenues start to open up. Take a look at the ongoing Community Goals, participating in them for a couple hours with a Hauler will often net you a few million, after your first one you can grab a Cobra and cut the time needed to do this in half, and once you have some funny money to play with it's no longer a game of getting to the "next" ship, it's a game of "gimme that ship because I want to try something new". I own more cheapo ships that I bought on a whim and used for a few hours to do something that caught my interest than I do expensive ships fit out as best as they can possibly be. They'll be there when I decide to get up to some more shenanigans too.

Credits can really grease the cogs of ED if you hold onto them as opposed to buying the most expensive ship available to you. Once you have a few million it's insignificant to grab a cheap Hauler, fit it out for maximum range, buzz out somewhere where an event is occurring to participate, buy another cheap ship to get in on the fun, and then take your Hauler back home when you're done. This is also an easy way to earn some decent credits, so soon you'll have enough to do this while buying not so cheap ships.

Watch the forums and newsletters to sniff out what's going on, and engage in what interests you or what seems like an easy buck. That travel fit Hauler with a fuel scoop will take you across the bubble in a few minutes, so once you hit that point you've pretty much got all of the doors opened.

PvP is a slow burn thing for me. I take it as it comes and rarely spend time hunting hot spots. Oft-times, if I'm near the right spot in the right ship for a CG or other event I'll forego fast traveling in a cheapie and get some swings in either before or after participating to keep things interesting.

There's finally a couple player groups starting up with the intention of playing defensive/escort roles, which makes for more varied gameplay, but I'd recommend at least getting a Diamondback or Imperial Courier before giving that a shot, as you'll need the extra versatility and jump range.

Lots of stuff to do, but the main thing that keeps me interested in the game is what doesn't interest you at all. Exploration is what I do when I'm bored with everything else, and I've been trying to make each trip twice as long as the last. My last trip lasted 40,000ly start to finish, so I've got to make one hell of a haul next time. Consider it when you find you've got enough cash for a travel-fit ship and a advanced scanner-detailed scanner combo. Even a Hauler or Eagle will get you across the galaxy and back if you're careful, and if you're even mildly attentive about scanning plenty of objects as you go you'll make a killing. I look at the credits as a bonus though, exploration trips are the Zen stage of the game where you can find all kinds of titillating bits of teasery to interest you in other aspects of the game, and most especially in aspects that're still in development and waiting to be delivered.

 

[DrugaRunda]

Its not hard to define. Meaning is in the relationships we make and there arent any in current ED setup. If they let players own stations or systems and let them set the agenda, organize mining, ban goods, flood the market, etc even strangers could get engaged.

Currently there is this pretty universe where only relationships allowed are killing NPC or each other, gaming a broken econsim to grind credits for larger ships, and exploring a random number generator (star systems).

Parts which work (beautifully may I add) are the visuals attached to the random number generator and the skeleton itself (ships + flying).

Waiting for more, will likely take years.

 

[Kristov]

I definitely didn't recognize those exploration trips as lasting several weeks but you guys seem to be actively looking for that.

Also, don't mistake me for a casual gamer- some answered that I might be the guy whos following quests or the obvious goal in games, that is not the case. I played a lot of games, most of them indy/hardcore/whatever you wanna call it. The problem is not that the game doesnt give me something to do and I am so used to the call of duties of this world that I cannot have fun on my own in a sandbox.

And yes, this IS a sandbox. A very beautiful one with a great shape, it is very large and the sand is shiny. It is so inviting that you immediately feel at home; but then you start playing and you realize that you have no tools other than a toothbrush to shape the sand, and that the sand is not at all sticky. every shape you try to form immediately falls apart, and you miss the tools to do shapes of proper size, so building a sand castle is impossible.


BUT the ships and immersion are pretty spot on. I don't play for achievements, I don't play to win. I play mostly for immersion. I play with Logitech G940 HOTAS+Throttle plus TrackIR. IMHO they got all the assets now to create a really great space sim. They just need to go ahead and do it.
Filling the existing world with content should be their goal - not expanding the universe at this point imho.

I'm currently out for a month this time, won't be back to the bubble until Horizons hits, and this wasn't actually something I'd planned on doing when I picked up Elite, not like this. I'd planned on doing SOME exploration, the videos I'd watched by Obsidian Ant(aka Granite on the forums) showed me what's out there to see and I definitely wanted to see some of that but I hadn't actually planned on going further than the Orion Nebula, just a few thousand LY out from the bubble at most. There are people who've been out since December of 2014, I'm just a newb compared to them

My FIRST trip out into the Black lasted all of 3 days, couple thousand LY out heading for the 'bottom' of the galaxy, got bored real quick, after all, I'd been participating in CGs and the like, so just jumping, exploring, jumping..it was BORING! So I went back to the bubble and did the Hutton Orbital GC and had a blast, did some missions, trading and hunting, and realized...I missed being out there in the Black, finding stuff no one else has ever seen or been to, seeing everything there is to see, and I loaded up a new Asp and took off again.

Normally, I'm all about the storyline or PvP or both if they happen to mesh. Exploration isn't usually something I really get into in video games, I want the action. That's what I did when I started playing Elite, lots of bounty hunting, lots of action, had a lot of fun. Did my first exploration run just so I could at least say I tried it, didn't figure it would really be much fun, and it wasn't, not at the time at any rate. I was rather surprised to find out how much I enjoy it, it's just...awesome.

It's not for everyone, that's for certain, just as combat or trading or PvP isn't for everyone. The game HAS a lot to do, it's just a matter of you doing it because the game doesn't force you towards anything, it just gives you the options and you decide what to do. That's what seems to get most people, there's no direction from the game into what to do, there's no storyline to follow, there's no plot line, no path from here to there, just..the galaxy, with a little itty bit of it occupied by humans and total freedom to go do whatever the hell you want to do in it.

The content is there, thousands of stations with BBs to get missions from, the exact same content you get in any MMO style game, go here, do this, bring that back, get paid. There's just no storyline for you to follow, no interaction with the NPCs, just jobs to do and money to be made and that's it, and that really bothers some people. Hell just look at all the claims of no content in this thread and others, including your own statements to that effect. The content IS there, it's just not packaged as people are expecting and wanting.

 

[Mercy Killing]

The thing that keeps ME from playing is SOMEONE (Sarah Jane) jacked up the NPC difficulty a bit too much for my old, crap self. Now I can't even play solo without dying all the time.

 

[Jex =TE=]

The game with the most forums posts of "I'm bored"

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I definitely didn't recognize those exploration trips as lasting several weeks but you guys seem to be actively looking for that.

Also, don't mistake me for a casual gamer- some answered that I might be the guy whos following quests or the obvious goal in games, that is not the case. I played a lot of games, most of them indy/hardcore/whatever you wanna call it. The problem is not that the game doesnt give me something to do and I am so used to the call of duties of this world that I cannot have fun on my own in a sandbox.

And yes, this IS a sandbox. A very beautiful one with a great shape, it is very large and the sand is shiny. It is so inviting that you immediately feel at home; but then you start playing and you realize that you have no tools other than a toothbrush to shape the sand, and that the sand is not at all sticky. every shape you try to form immediately falls apart, and you miss the tools to do shapes of proper size, so building a sand castle is impossible.


BUT the ships and immersion are pretty spot on. I don't play for achievements, I don't play to win. I play mostly for immersion. I play with Logitech G940 HOTAS+Throttle plus TrackIR. IMHO they got all the assets now to create a really great space sim. They just need to go ahead and do it.
Filling the existing world with content should be their goal - not expanding the universe at this point imho.

I think your sandbox analogy is very fitting. And straight up, if you're looking to build a sandcastle as in you'd like to see yourself owning a station, I hope that never happens. If you mean that you want to join a faction and make a difference on behalf of that faction, well, it's possible but the BGS is a work in progress and can undo all that work while you're not paying attention.

So at the moment, you're going to have to work with your toothbrush, or ship(s).

Example: I bought the Orca because it's a pretty ship. I like to take screenshots, and the reflection in the glass can create some great effects. After messing around with that for a few days, the idea occurred to me to make the Insane Sightseeing Tours brochure. Went to the noticeable places around the bubble and started posing the Orca in front of it. Getting the angles right and the light just so, meant I could spent half an hour on just taking one picture. The trip took 2 weeks, and after that I got a folder full of very nice screenshot material which I posted in a thread as the brochure.

Spent 2 weeks. Made a couple of 100k credits, but the experience was worth it to me.

Another example are the Fuel Rats. I guess you heard of them. They provide themselves with entertainment and stranded explorers won't have to watch weeks of work fizzling out in space. Maybe you could link up with them and save some damned souls in distress.

I think the objectives you're looking for are too grand in the game as it stands. The objectives should focus on what makes Elite shine. Flying the ships in a stunning backdrop of an amazing galaxy. The coherency in other areas will come. NPCs used to disappear if you left their instance, in 1.4 you can get a tenacious pirate following you even up to the entrance of a station. It's not much, but it's a start. And it shows the direction this game is going. But it's not yet in place.

And some of the more enterprising explorers are out there for months. There was one (FaschingsPrinz, the Phonebooth explorer) who set out in December in an Eagle, and came back late September. I myself always was a sucker for nebulae and faffing about for hours in and around one (again for the screenshot). On my way back from sag A I set myself a goal of having a first Earthlike discovery near/in a Nebula. Which meant more faffing about many nebulae until I scored one near the Heart nebula.

With regard to your last remark, they are filling the galaxy with content, regardless what the vinegar ers claim. But they also have to expand to keep players like me happy.

Long story short, I think you do have the right attitude, but you may be too analytical about it. Fly about the place, take in the sights and the experience, and you're bound to encounter distractions.

 

[Polusk]

Go on inhabited (by real players) systems and start a pirate job.
You will have:
PvP
Human contacts
Role play
Bounty hunters against you
Smuggling if items are tagged as stolen

 

[VR andysonofbob]

#OP

Felt the same. This is what I did and also what I should have done. Less grind more fun.

1 - optional but cool as!
Learn how to fly Flight Assist: OFF
Buy a cheap Eagle and practice. It is exhilarating. You are really flying. This turns Elite into a very different feeling game. More simulator less arcade. I currently only use Flight Assist when landing, but one day...

2
Loose the Viper, it is so restrictive. Aim for these low-mid price ships: Vulture and Cobra. Vulture first.

2a Vulture:
This is your combat machine. Pure combat and shield build - 3 shield boosters, gimbled pulse lasers and KWS. You need to set Cargo, FSD etc to secondary to deal with energy issues. BUT, she is deadly and has stamina. I can mess about it HIRES zones for hours. BUT only go solo on lone FDLs or lower. Python and Anaconda or anything with a wing LEAVE!!!! until you have backup in the form of green system cops. Hang with them. I make between 2 - 3 million per hour. Just make sure you play with the pips: I have three settings. Attacking = 4 guns, 2 shield; Positioning for attack = 4 shields, 1 guns, 1 engine; Retreating when shields are low = 4 engines, 2 shields. Never EVER let your shields run out. Retreat when you are down to 1/3 shield layers.

2b Cobra:
Smuggling/trading OR exploration (great jump range for the price) build. You don't loose any money from selling/swapping equipment and most shipyards hold equipment for Cobra sized ships. My default build is for trading but you can equip all the stuff you need to exploring without having to remove the shields! You just need to find a half decent station.

Mate
Loose that Viper ASAP. Most people who love the Viper are either serious expert combat pilots or have plenty of money for other ships. At least aim for those two ships and play around with them. Don't forget to try running with Flight Assist off too.

 

[Cmdr_Prussian]

#OP

Felt the same. This is what I did and also what I should have done. Less grind more fun.

1 - optional but cool as!
Learn how to fly Flight Assist: OFF
Buy a cheap Eagle and practice. It is exhilarating. You are really flying. This turns Elite into a very different feeling game. More simulator less arcade. I currently only use Flight Assist when landing, but one day...

2
Loose the Viper, it is so restrictive. Aim for these low-mid price ships: Vulture and Cobra. Vulture first.

2a Vulture:
This is your combat machine. Pure combat and shield build - 3 shield boosters, gimbled pulse lasers and KWS. You need to set Cargo, FSD etc to secondary to deal with energy issues. BUT, she is deadly and has stamina. I can mess about it HIRES zones for hours. BUT only go solo on lone FDLs or lower. Python and Anaconda or anything with a wing LEAVE!!!! until you have backup in the form of green system cops. Hang with them. I make between 2 - 3 million per hour. Just make sure you play with the pips: I have three settings. Attacking = 4 guns, 2 shield; Positioning for attack = 4 shields, 1 guns, 1 engine; Retreating when shields are low = 4 engines, 2 shields. Never EVER let your shields run out. Retreat when you are down to 1/3 shield layers.

2b Cobra:
Smuggling/trading OR exploration (great jump range for the price) build. You don't loose any money from selling/swapping equipment and most shipyards hold equipment for Cobra sized ships. My default build is for trading but you can equip all the stuff you need to exploring without having to remove the shields! You just need to find a half decent station.

Mate
Loose that Viper ASAP. Most people who love the Viper are either serious expert combat pilots or have plenty of money for other ships. At least aim for those two ships and play around with them. Don't forget to try running with Flight Assist off too.

Thanks for the tips! Also to everyone else btw!
I haven't tried the Vulture yet, the straight up speed of the Viper allowed me to win every PVP encounter yet. I have experience in WW2 games, so I know to play such a ship in a Boom n Zoom Style. I consider myself a halfway decent combat pilot I fitted it with 2 ungimballed beam lasers and 2 unguided rocket batteries firing in tandem. This effectively allows me to roundabout 1-hit a cobra sized ship, especially after beaming his shields out of existence; I even managed to destroy a few Anacondas 1on1 with this build, but it takes patience.
Flying with FA off for prolonged amounts of time sounds interesting.
I usually used it to cut my turns or fly backwards. Very rewarding to give the enemy a feeling of control by runnning from him, then turning and 1-hitting his face with said rockets
But what annoys me about it is the "sway" that you get like if trying to hover on spot with a helictor. In space if no force enacts on you there should be no movement. I don't really know why they implemented this other to nerf aiming in this mode to decrease its usage in combat, which I kind of agree with; but at the same time its annoying as when trying to just fly straight.
A friend of mine recommended the Vulture as well, but I am afraid that due to its size it wont fit as many components?


TBH I was afraid to leave the starter area of the game, because I have no indication where other players are and the further I move away from the start the less players I potentially encounter, and those trips take very long so I was a bit afraid remove myself too far. I value PVP and any sort of player contacts as well as teamplay.

"Quests" that bring players together without them having to "manually" team up would be great. For example "A large convoy leaves station xy to system abc as soon as 10 escort fighters have gathered (Number of needed fighters decreases with increased waiting time, so that after 15 minutes of waiting you can also start with 5 or similar)" so that a group of random players would experience something together for once.
I found it so hard to even play with a friend, because I couldnt even join his fight when he interdicted somebody or was interdicted himself etc. I think that became possible after a certain patch but still feels very restricted. A more easy and common way to identify and interact (other than shoot, but also shoot) with players would be so great. But that would require a few galactic centres and hubs and factions to focus players in one spot.
The large universe is still there and doesn't hurt, but I would just leave it as what it is. It feels like they're trying to "balance" the gameplay offerings of every element of the game, thus limiting every aspect of the game to be as "boring" (blatantly speaking ofc) as exploration, mining etc. I don't think this is necessary, I say in a game design way it is best to make every aspect as good as you can and let the players decide what to make of it, simply because its not like all aspects of the game are enjoyed by an equal percentage of players.
Maybe this feels like the large universe effort is wasted, but really it isnt because knowing its there still has an tremendous impact on how the player sees the game and you cannot force a player to take in all elements equally anyhow.

I work fulltime so I don't have as much time to play anymore. And even if I have, I usually need to make the best use of these hours, so I am always in a bit of a hurry - meaning I cant sit back and enjoy just doing nothing and seeing what happens in a game like elite. which is a shame, but I think it could be engineered into allowing people like me to play and have fun without taking anything away from anyone else.

I would make the factions much smaller, stretching only a few systems and lowering the requirements to change the BGS massively.

Think of Mount & Blade, which is very similar in terms of 4x gameplay. And while in 90% or more of play sessions plaeyrs will not achieve to gather a massive enough army to attack a city, they know it is theoretically possible, just as in E. But in ED the numbers are so large and far removed that you know you cannot make an impact unless thousands of players determine their full attention for a MASSIVE amount of time.
The impact you make is basically gone when you log in next time.

I don't want to rule the galaxy or be a super hero or otherwise, but I want to be part of the world, and now it feels like im just a tourist. I can watch but I cannot touch so to speak.
The BGS needs improvement and the economics simulation needs to be simplified imho.


I found your answers very interesting to read and will try to try out some of them if I get around to it

*How do I know what a player inhabited system is?
**Starting a pirate jobs means taking a job at a BB? Doesnt that send me to a different system usually?

 

[VR andysonofbob]

Thanks for the tips! Also to everyone else btw!
I haven't tried the Vulture yet, the straight up speed of the Viper allowed me to win every PVP encounter yet. I have experience in WW2 games, so I know to play such a ship in a Boom n Zoom Style. I consider myself a halfway decent combat pilot I fitted it with 2 ungimballed beam lasers and 2 unguided rocket batteries firing in tandem. This effectively allows me to roundabout 1-hit a cobra sized ship, especially after beaming his shields out of existence; I even managed to destroy a few Anacondas 1on1 with this build, but it takes patience.
Flying with FA off for prolonged amounts of time sounds interesting.
I usually used it to cut my turns or fly backwards. Very rewarding to give the enemy a feeling of control by runnning from him, then turning and 1-hitting his face with said rockets
But what annoys me about it is the "sway" that you get like if trying to hover on spot with a helictor. In space if no force enacts on you there should be no movement. I don't really know why they implemented this other to nerf aiming in this mode to decrease its usage in combat, which I kind of agree with; but at the same time its annoying as when trying to just fly straight.
A friend of mine recommended the Vulture as well, but I am afraid that due to its size it wont fit as many components?

That's why I mentioned going for the vulture AND Cobra. Vulture first because its more fun and easy to make money hunting rats in RES.

Have you considered joining Mobius privaatge group?
http://elitepve.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=4

Purely PVE so no griefing unless you want griefing of course.
Also the player system is very obvious and significant in their group.

 

[Marak]

#OP

Felt the same. This is what I did and also what I should have done. Less grind more fun.


*snip*

Good tips!

I play this game far too much & got a BattleConda... But I spend most of my time in a Cobra now, switching to a Vulture when I'm feeling mean.

Big ships are fun, but smaller ships are fun and more challenging.

*Edit* And I always interdict player Anacondas & Pythons with big bounties, then run away. After all - they might be pirates

 

[Mark Lock]

Hey guys,
I am new on these forums but very active on many others including Star Citizen forum.

Now, I have played ED for maybe 10-20 hours, and I often bring it up as an example for an excellent game. However, I have no incentive to play.
I don't know why that is, but the open world feels so disconnected. Doing PVP or generally combat is fun, but fighting just for the sake of fighting gets dull soon.

I have a Viper and I wanna keep it. The only incentive people are playing this is to get the next "better" ship, but I have no interest in an Anaconda etc. I'd be itnerested in cap ships if we wouldnt control them from a forward facing cockpit, but had bridge mechanics instead.

So without the urge to grind for a better ship, I don't know what to do. Tried mining, horribly boring. I like trading, but making a significant profit is very hard with minimal and varying margins, so profiting is hard if you dont have a freighter.
Fighting is great fun, I am hugely successful in it as well but all the combat seems so unbelievable. the "law" killing people over wrong parking and similar stuff.
You just kill people for no reason, this is so counterimmersive.

Missions are made extremely boring, repeating passionless pattern all the time, and the functionality of stations is really limited to landing and takeoff and the station menu.

Powerplay is so abstract it doesnt change anything.
Exploration is generally not so much my thing, and I am actively demotivated to make a trip to Sol for example by the thought of having to fly back should I want to play with friends at some point.
Teamplay has been improved, but there still not much of value you can do.

I guess cooler missions, better teamplay and a faction systems where you can actually take an influence might catch my interest more.

The buggies in horizon look great, but I dont wanna pay again because i dont feel i got my money out of the original game, even though its awesome.

CQC is great fun, but also gets boring quite fast.


This is paradox.
Im constantly quoting ED as a game that is great in almost everythign it does, but I still can't find a reason to play it longer than 20 minutes.
I am an intensive player actually, I have over a 1000 hours of game time in many different games like War Thunder,
so my question is: What do you do to have proper fun with E?
How do you keep your motivation up?

I honestly feel like there is something I am missing because it seems so much like the game of my dreams (I LOVE space sims exactly the style of ED, 4x + multiplayer), yet I just don't find the incentive to play.


Maybe you can help me out?
-Prussian

I'm having a far different experience, you say you don't find an incentive to play and that you just do combat for the sake of it but it's not true, there is purpose in fighting,trading,mining etc... You have to find your own goals, the game won't tell you what to do, you are a space pilote like trilions of others in the universe, you have to find your own place and objectives.

What I usually do is set objectives for myself, I play in federation and I spend my ingame time fighting criminals or trading, I also try to help the power I pledged to so that it can expand in systems not currently under its control, I meet other players and talk to them, we sometimes form wings and fly together, many other times I like trading goods, doing missions for a faction or the other, sometimes I go smuggler. As soon as planet landings are available I'll go explore them, there are tons of things I do I didn't list here but there are a lot of activities you can do in ED, it's up to you to choose what you want to do, the possibilities are endless and it will expand with the upcoming Seasons.

 

[Alric]

It's clearly not perfect then, is it.

 

[Marak]

It's clearly not perfect then, is it.

Not perfect yet - but getting closer day by day

 

[Mark Lock]

Not perfect yet - but getting closer day by day

Perfection doesn't exist, also I think it is subjective , many people like the game, some don't, it will always be like that, honestly I enjoy the game a lot and I'm quite sure I'll enjoy it even more with planet landings