Four Month break and sadly no change

flibberflops

flibberflops
In the weeks after Elite was released I found myself not playing it anymore. In truth I was getting a little bored after months of beta testing and things didn't help when it was obvious that VR specific "improvements" were not forth coming.

Still, I still fired up the old dog every time a major update came out in the hope that VR specific tweaks to the gameplay would be introduced. However, each time I would be quickly disappointed again as I realised nothing had changed. I'm not talking about performance issues, I’m talking about all those little annoyances that need tweaking to make the VR experience more pleasurable.

I am not going to make a list of things that should be fixed as it has been said a many times already... and besides it only encourages an endless queue of posters to bang on about how the issues are really not issues. I'm not entirely sure why they do this but they do. Only in the world of computer games does this happen. I'm sure the Ford forums is not littered we random people blaming the users for not being able to read the screens or for finding the SatNav unnecessarily awkward to use.


Anyway, after a four month break and no VR improvements implemented at all, I think it’s fair to say that we aren’t realistically going to get any changes for the DK2. I also don’t think it’s unfair to conclude that the extent of support for the DK2 in elite is actually just the normal game + the DK2 camera bolted on as a view. Yes, they seem to be intent on keeping the Dk2 working with Elite, but sadly any development outside the standard view for none VR users just doesn’t seem like it’s going to happen.


This will no doubt be of no consequence to the endless list of people who will reply to this thread strongly defending Elite in its current form. However for me it is very disappointing, especially when I can see that just a tiny amount of VR specific changes would make a massive difference.
 

[VR] Mad Mike

[VR] Mad Mike
not sure what you are asking for really.

many of the "issues" with the DK2 support are linked to issues with the DK2 itsself, which is a beta product and not for consumer release. Sure, they COULD change the fonts, gui etc etc (gui we can sort ourselves however)

but this would be wasted dev time as once the consumer version ships hopefully it will not be a pentile matrix.

the stutter issues ARE being worked on and are issues with the game, not the VR support, and that will benefit us all.

the galaxy map I personally find 100% usable in VR....

Any changes FD make for the DK2 need to be improvements with a view to how it will affect the CONSUMER version, or the game as a whole. if it wont affect that they are wasting their time.

you make a complaint however..... what do you suggest they should change? personally, despite only playing elite on my rift, I would much rather the devs spent time creating more content and getting the game working better as a whole, and redesigning the gui for a soon to be obsolete device.

look on the bright side, at least its not euro truck sim 2. there is a good chance support for that is done for once we update to the new sdk
 
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Flimley

Flimley
I need a new pair of shoes. I only bought some a few months ago and already a big split has appeared in one of them. They cost me £40 too !
 

Sanderson

Sanderson
OP has some valid points.

I'm hoping they are doing tweaks for the commercial releases of the various units behind the closed "open development" door but, then again, I was one of the people saying they wouldn't possibly release Elite in the shape it was. So, there's that.

It's been painfully obvious, IMO, that FD has had the vast majority of their people focusing on other games for some time now. So, unless they've been secretly working on a massive surprise for us in 1.3, I doubt they ED team has the manpower to do VR stuff with the rest of what's going on.

We, VR people, are a very small percentage (I'd guess) of the playerbase. I'd bet if and when VR takes off in a big way, they'll revisit HMD's.
 

flibberflops

flibberflops
Mad Mike said:
not sure what you are asking for really.

many of the "issues" with the DK2 support are linked to issues with the DK2 itsself, which is a beta product and not for consumer release. Sure, they COULD change the fonts, gui etc etc (gui we can sort ourselves however)

but this would be wasted dev time as once the consumer version ships hopefully it will not be a pentile matrix.

the stutter issues ARE being worked on and are issues with the game, not the VR support, and that will benefit us all.

the galaxy map I personally find 100% usable in VR....

Any changes FD make for the DK2 need to be improvements with a view to how it will affect the CONSUMER version, or the game as a whole. if it wont affect that they are wasting their time.

you make a complaint however..... what do you suggest they should change? personally, despite only playing elite on my rift, I would much rather the devs spent time creating more content and getting the game working better as a whole, and redesigning the gui for a soon to be obsolete device.

look on the bright side, at least its not euro truck sim 2. there is a good chance support for that is done for once we update to the new sdk
Click to expand...

I am purposely avoiding dragging up specifics because there are other dedicated threads that do it better.

However, to sum up the issue. Yes there are work arounds and some things are 100% usuable... but it still doesn't make them ideal. However, there are clearly other things that need addressing. Ok, maybe clarity of text will be fixed when the VR devices go to higher resolution. However there are other issues that will still be issues even if they brought out a super high resolution VR headset (like menu / information positioning on the far left).

As I alluded to in the orginal post. The issues that exist are in most cases minor positioning issues that could be relatively simple to sort out. Currently 2D and 3D layout is identical and if you read any of the best practice guides for VR you will find that the dual scenaro is virtually impossible to achive. If Elite is serious about its 3D support, at some point they are going to have to make comfort adjustments for 3D that differ to the standard 2D build. This situation is not going to change just because CV1 has a higher resolution.
 

Ben Ryder

Ben Ryder
flibberflops said:
In the weeks after Elite was released I found myself not playing it anymore. In truth I was getting a little bored after months of beta testing and things didn't help when it was obvious that VR specific "improvements" were not forth coming.

Still, I still fired up the old dog every time a major update came out in the hope that VR specific tweaks to the gameplay would be introduced. However, each time I would be quickly disappointed again as I realised nothing had changed. I'm not talking about performance issues, I’m talking about all those little annoyances that need tweaking to make the VR experience more pleasurable.

I am not going to make a list of things that should be fixed as it has been said a many times already... and besides it only encourages an endless queue of posters to bang on about how the issues are really not issues. I'm not entirely sure why they do this but they do. Only in the world of computer games does this happen. I'm sure the Ford forums is not littered we random people blaming the users for not being able to read the screens or for finding the SatNav unnecessarily awkward to use.


Anyway, after a four month break and no VR improvements implemented at all, I think it’s fair to say that we aren’t realistically going to get any changes for the DK2. I also don’t think it’s unfair to conclude that the extent of support for the DK2 in elite is actually just the normal game + the DK2 camera bolted on as a view. Yes, they seem to be intent on keeping the Dk2 working with Elite, but sadly any development outside the standard view for none VR users just doesn’t seem like it’s going to happen.


This will no doubt be of no consequence to the endless list of people who will reply to this thread strongly defending Elite in its current form. However for me it is very disappointing, especially when I can see that just a tiny amount of VR specific changes would make a massive difference.
Click to expand...


Most people dont have VR and it's not on mass sale so whereas things like Macs are. I think the focus is about right.
 

Djinn144

Djinn144
Im sure FD as already making plans to update the VR support now that the CV1 specs have been released. i know i have been waiting for the consumer version as im sure many others have.
 

Andovar

Andovar
I've only just started in the VR world, and while it is really cool, I agree that ED definitely needs work in the VR arena. Although I can completely understand why it wouldn't be tops on their priority list. VR is essentially bells-and-whistles. You add that without content, and the game won't last very long. And more content seems to have been their focus since release.
Not to mention, I'm pretty sure the VR community is still a minority of the user base.
Plus, the rift is still beta hardware and software. I'd imagine as the rift gets closer to release, that ED will start focusing more on VR.
 

CMDR Holycow

CMDR Holycow
flibberflops said:
In the weeks after Elite was released I found myself not playing it anymore. In truth I was getting a little bored after months of beta testing and things didn't help when it was obvious that VR specific "improvements" were not forth coming.

Still, I still fired up the old dog every time a major update came out in the hope that VR specific tweaks to the gameplay would be introduced. However, each time I would be quickly disappointed again as I realised nothing had changed. I'm not talking about performance issues, I’m talking about all those little annoyances that need tweaking to make the VR experience more pleasurable.

I am not going to make a list of things that should be fixed as it has been said a many times already... and besides it only encourages an endless queue of posters to bang on about how the issues are really not issues. I'm not entirely sure why they do this but they do. Only in the world of computer games does this happen. I'm sure the Ford forums is not littered we random people blaming the users for not being able to read the screens or for finding the SatNav unnecessarily awkward to use.


Anyway, after a four month break and no VR improvements implemented at all, I think it’s fair to say that we aren’t realistically going to get any changes for the DK2. I also don’t think it’s unfair to conclude that the extent of support for the DK2 in elite is actually just the normal game + the DK2 camera bolted on as a view. Yes, they seem to be intent on keeping the Dk2 working with Elite, but sadly any development outside the standard view for none VR users just doesn’t seem like it’s going to happen.


This will no doubt be of no consequence to the endless list of people who will reply to this thread strongly defending Elite in its current form. However for me it is very disappointing, especially when I can see that just a tiny amount of VR specific changes would make a massive difference.
Click to expand...
honestly, not quite sure what' youre talking about. It's a pretty common opinion that FD isn't, and shouldn't, spend time optimising for VR when it isn't even out yet. Once CV1 and/or Valve headsets are released, along with x12 and the new architectures in video cards... we should see some great improvements.
 

[VR] Mad Mike

[VR] Mad Mike
flibberflops said:
As I alluded to in the orginal post. The issues that exist are in most cases minor positioning issues that could be relatively simple to sort out. Currently 2D and 3D layout is identical and if you read any of the best practice guides for VR you will find that the dual scenaro is virtually impossible to achive. If Elite is serious about its 3D support, at some point they are going to have to make comfort adjustments for 3D that differ to the standard 2D build. This situation is not going to change just because CV1 has a higher resolution.
Click to expand...

It is subjective to. To each their own and I am nto pooh poohing your complaints.... But personally even IF I could change text positions etc, honestly personally I wouldnt. This is not me being an elite fanboy either. Despite loving the game there is a hell of a lot missing from it that i expected to be in, and hope will still make it eventually.... its just that for me, the gui etc (outside of the low resolution of the DK2) is just perfect, indeed I would say it is one of the highlights of the design choices.

Perhaps your issues with the gui is just a personal taste thing?
(The only thing I really would like to change is the system map... but that is only because we have been shown the orrery view which is so much better imo.

you may get some improvements sooner rather than later now anyway. with the new SDK breaking elite support, the devs have said they will take a look at it. maybe whilst they are there they will do other tweaks too?.
 
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Olmis Aremja

Olmis Aremja
Mad Mike said:
its just that for me, the gui etc (outside of the low resolution of the DK2) is just perfect, indeed I would say it is one of the highlights of the design choices.
Click to expand...

Try telling that to my neck. I cricked it last night turning to look at the Nav menu :eek: Hurts like a b*^£h this morning!
.
Yoga classes here I come! :cool:
 

Andovar

Andovar
Mad Mike said:
But personally even IF I could change text positions etc, honestly personally I wouldnt. This is not me being an elite fanboy either. Despite loving the game there is a hell of a lot missing from it that i expected to be in, and hope will still make it eventually.... its just that for me, the gui etc (outside of the low resolution of the DK2) is just perfect, indeed I would say it is one of the highlights of the design choices.
Click to expand...
I feel the same. I really like the layout of the hud. The only thing I'd like to see change (other than the clarity/resolution of course), is the ability to disable the auto-popup of the side menus.
 

Ancipital

Ancipital
Mad Mike said:
Perhaps your issues with the gui is just a personal taste thing?
(The only thing I really would like to change is the system map... but that is only because we have been shown the orrery view which is so much better imo.

you may get some improvements sooner rather than later now anyway. with the new SDK breaking elite support, the devs have said they will take a look at it. maybe whilst they are there they will do other tweaks too?.
Click to expand...

For the UI based on a big rectangular panel, there's an easy way to do it- a practise that is used in other games.. In VR, you just curve the UI around the user a bit, which neatly sidesteps all the resolution issues. It's a bare minimum that would make things like the station UI really good. If you're curious to see for yourself, play Radial-G (I think there's even a demo), or fiddle with the UI for SteamVR. It's remarkably simple and effective.

FD really need to at least do this bare minimum- it allows you to to keep the same UI elements but really helps with the poor display res. Obviously, doing more would be nice, but I have been amazed how FD never actually added this tweak. Maybe when they rebuild it all to use the new API? We can dream.
 
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spacehamburger

S
I've been playing ED in VR for a while now, I think it's an "ok experience" but nothing more. Whoever is saying it's perfect got some serious fan boy issue. I do love the interface and how you can interact with it though, I think this work really well. The main issue (at least for me) is the awful DK2 resolution. While Frontier could certainly tweak to UI interface to accommodate the crappy DK2 hardware there's some stuff that cannot be fixed. For example, far away object like stars, ship or stations do not render correctly inside the DK2 and that's because of the crappy screen and resolution of the DK2. Nothing can be done about this really...we'll have to wait for CV1 and hope it get better.
 
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Andovar

Andovar
spacehamburger said:
I've been playing ED in VR for a while now, I think it's an "ok experience" but nothing more. Whoever is saying it's perfect got some serious fan boy issue. I do love the interface and how you can interact with it though, I think this work really well. The main issue (at least for me) is the awful DK2 resolution. While Frontier could certainly tweak to UI interface to accommodate the crappy DK2 hardware there's some stuff that cannot be fixed. For example, far away object like stars, ship or stations do not render correctly inside the DK2 and that's because of the crappy screen and resolution of the DK2. Nothing can be done about this really...we'll have to wait for CV1 and hope it get better.
Click to expand...
I don't know anyone who's saying it's perfect, but for a lot of people the "being inside" immersion outweighs the poor resolution.
While I do think it's a cool experience, I can't play it for more than an hour. The poor resolution coupled with the occasional judder, along with the device pressing into my face, it gives me a headache. So I only do the VR for short sessions.

On the bright side, I figure since FD has been at this since pretty early in development, they should be able to deliver a spot-on experience with the CV1 once released.
 
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