Fragment cannons - Double Shot or High Capacity Magazine?

[geoffrey.hdt]

Hi my dear fellow pellet scatterers!

I have collected plenty of mats and am almost ready to mod my beloved Federal Frag Ship.

The question is:
BOOBOOM..BOOBOOM..BOOBOOM?
or
BOOM...BOOM...BOOM...BOOM...BOOM?

A non modded frag does:
- 3 rounds per clip
- pressing the trigger fires one shot at a time,for both gimballed and fixed since last update (boooo!)
- 4-5 shots per seconds (but you can achieve that only via an autofire script)
- 90+3 rounds total ammo

As far as I understand, Double shot mod, grade 3:
- fires two shots every time the trigger is pressed
- increase the clip up to 6
- increase the rate of fire up to +50%
=> Up to 6 shots (actually, 5 since 6 is very hard to get) fired in less than one second, but same total ammo.

Then, High Capacity Magazine mod, grade 3:
- increase the clip up to 5
- decrease reload time
- increase the total ammo up to 168
=> Up to 5 shots in one second, almost twice the total ammo but longer reload time between burst.

For PvE, I definitely know which mod is the best of course, though I would actually not go for a frag cannon loadout.
For PvP, I think I would go for Double Shot to nail some deadly blow at point blank...

Any thoughts or comments based on PvP experience?

 

[JohnCarter]

I think you answered your own question. For quick dps engagements use the double shot. For possibly flying in a wing or longer engagements the high capacity magazine would probably be a good option. I think I would go for the double shot

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

I think you answered your own question. For quick dps engagements use the double shot. For possibly flying in a wing or longer engagements the high capacity magazine would probably be a good option. I think I would go for the double shot

Yeah I know, I started to type this post without really knowing all details about these two mods and, by the time I finished typing the post, I knew exactly what they do

PS: I created an autofire script for my HOTAS and managed to achieve 4-5 shots per seconds, so it's not bugged.

 

[JohnCarter]

Oh very cool, like a 2 shot macro with a double shot mod? Nice thinking!

 

[Teryd]

BEWARE:

I got double shot grade 3 on 2 guns, and both rolled with 66% clip size.
This caused the clip to now have a capacity of 5, but you shot 2 shots per click.
When you shoot with 1 shot left, it will remember the double shot and immediately shoot a single shell after it finishes reloading.
You can NOT make it not shoot once after the reload.
However, higher grade double shot do not even have the chance to get 66%, so that's good.

 

[Frenotx]

It depends. If the frag cannons are your primary weapon, then high capacity. If your using them more as an opportunistic secondary, then double shot would be appropriate.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

BEWARE:

I got double shot grade 3 on 2 guns, and both rolled with 66% clip size.
This caused the clip to now have a capacity of 5, but you shot 2 shots per click.
When you shoot with 1 shot left, it will remember the double shot and immediately shoot a single shell after it finishes reloading.

Yep, I have just learned this the hard way today...
15 rolls of grade 3 double shot...none of them got clip size 6 and every other burst, it fires automatically one shot after reload, which is wasted.

Oh and...I did not realize you do not have the option to "adjust" the special effect after you have applied the mod...arf... :-/

I will go for grade 1 instead, which is easier to maximize and apply incendiary on top. Then i will go for grade 4 later for clip size 6.
RNG grind, here I'll come again!

 

[Truesilver]

Yep, I have just learned this the hard way today...
15 rolls of grade 3 double shot...none of them got clip size 6 and every other burst, it fires automatically one shot after reload, which is wasted.

OK, fellow blunderbuss tinkerers, let me see if I've got this straight...?

According to inara, Tod (who only goes up to Grade 3 on frags) actually confers higher DPS benefits at Grade 3 double-shot than Zac does at Grade 4. So, Tod Grade 3 looks like a no-brainer.

BUT

If you go down the Tod Grade 3 route you run the substantial risk of getting a clip holding 5 rather than 6, throwing a significant spanner into the works.

So, it's either go for Tod Grade 3 and be prepared for A LOT of re-rolls, or the longer yet more certain route of Zac Grade 4?

Is that the choice, guys? Anything I've missed??

Cheers all,

Truesilver

 

[cmdr_Havalok]

Anything I've missed??

Cheers all,

Truesilver

Tod does does give a Free Spaceship Wash* with each level 2 (or above) upgrade, if that helps in the decision making process.

* 1 Per customer/Per Upgrade 30 day cooldown period. Redeemable at Tod's Wax and Wash

 

[goemon]

OK, fellow blunderbuss tinkerers, let me see if I've got this straight...?

According to inara, Tod (who only goes up to Grade 3 on frags) actually confers higher DPS benefits at Grade 3 double-shot than Zac does at Grade 4. So, Tod Grade 3 looks like a no-brainer.

BUT

If you go down the Tod Grade 3 route you run the substantial risk of getting a clip holding 5 rather than 6, throwing a significant spanner into the works.

So, it's either go for Tod Grade 3 and be prepared for A LOT of re-rolls, or the longer yet more certain route of Zac Grade 4?

Is that the choice, guys? Anything I've missed??

Cheers all,

Truesilver

I don't think inara is correct. effects are the same for all engineers afaik. can't proof, because not having access to nemo (yet). i can put up a screenshot of todd later, though.

 

[Derath]

I don't think different engineers have different percentages I just think its a reporting bug from the data gathering (like somebody looked with a gimballed frag and the other was compared to a fixed), from what i've seen high capacity is pretty close to pointless as you'll never have enough ammo to make them a feasible primary except for killing a few targets then going to rearm.

Double shot looks fantastic especially when you get the 6 clip mag, double shot will give the highest dps, overcharge gives the highest damage/shot the rest really don't offer enough use to be viable.

I don't remember if double shot has higher chance of positive effects however which could sway it in that direction - overcharge generally doesn't roll positives whereas many of the other mods can get 4 or 5 positive secondaries so maybe that would swing it firmly in one direction. I'm gonna mod a pacifier fairly shortly so i'll post it in when i've done it.

The current infinite ammo bug makes me wish I had a 4 frag FAS tbh, i bet you could have great fun reaping in a HREZ

Edit: All I can say is double shot or overcharge with incendiary ammo is probably the best DPE vs shields in the game and probably hull too, if you wanted to make a ship that barely needs a WEP capacitor this would be the wep to use and infact would be my prediction towards the best PvP build.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

If you go down the Tod Grade 3 route you run the substantial risk of getting a clip holding 5 rather than 6, throwing a significant spanner into the works.

I did 15 rolls of grade 3 and none of them gave me 6 shots per clip.
You may be luckier than me, who knows...

Tod (who only goes up to Grade 3 on frags) actually confers higher DPS benefits at Grade 3 double-shot than Zac does at Grade 4

I believe the DPS is stronger with Todd due to higher rate of fire. But in the end, each BOOM does the same amount of damage and it does not matter much whether you do a BOOBOOM BOOBOOM in 0.5s or 0.6s...

So, it's either go for Tod Grade 3 and be prepared for A LOT of re-rolls, or the longer yet more certain route of Zac Grade 4?

If you can get grade 3 with 6 shots per clip, good for you! Me, I'm not trying this ever again...

But as it was pointed out, 5 shots per clip is bugged and every other reload a single shot will be fired even if you don't press the trigger, which is a waste and reduces your next burst to 4 shots.

To make it clear:
[press 3 times the trigger]: BOOBOOM BOOBOOM BOOM
[reload]
[trigger not pressed]: BOOM!
[4 shots left in the clip]
[press 3 times the trigger]: BOOBOOM BOOBOOM

So in the end, I believe it's wiser to do multiple rolls of grade 1 to get BOOBOOM BOOBOOM
then get access to grade 4 to get BOOBOOM BOOBOOM BOOBOOM.

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

I don't remember if double shot has higher chance of positive effects however which could sway it in that direction - overcharge generally doesn't roll positives whereas many of the other mods can get 4 or 5 positive secondaries so maybe that would swing it firmly in one direction.

Well, the good thing with grade 1-3 from Todd, is that it is then time efficient to "adjust" the special effect:
- Drop about 500k of Alliance bounty vouchers = get grade 3 access
- Perform a good roll, adjust to select the special effect, lose 2 ranks
- Drop about 500k of Alliance bounty vouchers = get grade 3 access... (Rinse, repeat)

Grade 4 with Zach Nemo is going to be a different story... :-/

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The current infinite ammo bug makes me wish I had a 4 frag FAS tbh, i bet you could have great fun reaping in a HREZ

Yep, triple frags incendiary on my FAS...infinite ammo...love it!
I hope it lasts as long as the FSD cooldown bug did on the Clipper!

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I'm gonna mod a pacifier fairly shortly so i'll post it in when i've done it.

Can we get class 2 Pacifier, as well as gimballed versions please?
The problem in my case is that the Pacifier is faster than regular frags. And since it exists as class 3 only, you can't mix it with regular frags...
:-(

 

[Truesilver]

Um ... I thought the infinite ammo bug was just turrets. Is it absolutely everything, then, or what?

 

[geoffrey.hdt]

Um ... I thought the infinite ammo bug was just turrets. Is it absolutely everything, then, or what?

I read about multi-cannons bugged initially.
Then I noticed my gimballed frags had infinite ammo.
After modding my frags, they did not have infinite ammo anymore, but restarting the game gave me back infinite ammo.

Hurry, enjoy while it lasts!