General Free to Play Economies Belong in Free to Play Games

[Darrack]

I'm telling you, any ship. Krait, Asp, Even sidewinders have their own distinctive benefits. Hauler is great for mining, Cobra is great for combat, Cobra is arguably better than hauler for combat. But those ships are earned through playing the game and are available at the same time for all players. Early access ships are not.

An FDL will destroy the new PMK2 and dont get me started how fast my Vette melts them, yet those two ships are not ARX ships.

O7

 

[TurkeyApple]

You didn't answer my question. How does someone using a Corsair beat someone in an FdL in combat, given the very different flight models?

Such as? What makes a Corsair better than an Anaconda for the use by fuel rats or better than a Corvette for bounty hunting?

You wouldn't use a jack of all trades ship for that purpose but if you met someone playing the same role with a similar ship, you having access to a ship they do not, gives you more options to learn how to take advantage of that shops strengths faster than others. I can't make it any clearer for you than that.

 

[Greasetrap42]

I understand that point exactly and I've made it clear that the ability to equip a ship early does provide an unfair advantage.

So you do understand the concept of outfitting a ship? and Engineering. And Powerplay, And Guardian Tech....Then you fully know your arguments are crap then?

 

[TurkeyApple]

So you do understand the concept of outfitting a ship? Then you fully know your arguments are crap then?

I understand you think my argument is. And that's your opinion to hold. I can't convince of my point if you don't want to engage it with good faith.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

You wouldn't use a jack of all trades ship for that purpose but if you met someone playing the same role with a similar ship, you having access to a ship they do not, gives you more options to learn how to take advantage of that shops strengths faster than others. I can't make it any clearer for you than that.

An Anaconda is a jack of all trades ship.

 

[TurkeyApple]

An Anaconda is a jack of all trades ship.

Ah thanks for clarifying. Then I'm going to ask you, does the Annoconda have any stats or qualities that are lower than this ship?

Landing Pad Size​

Medium

Dimensions​

86.8m x 69.4m x 16m

Pilot Seats​

2

Multicrew​

Yes

Fighter Hangar​

No

Hull Mass​

265 t

Mass Lock Factor​

7

Armour​

486

Armour Hardness​

65

Shields​

264 MJ

Heat Capacity​

230

Fuel Capacity​

32 t

Manoeuvr-​

ability​

4

Top Speed​

288 m/s (default)
325 m/s (upgraded)

Boost Speed​

366 m/s (default)
412 m/s (upgraded)

Unladen Jump Range​

12.96 ly (default)
39.58 ly (upgraded)

Cargo Capacity​

48 t (default)
318 t (max)

 

[Darrack]

Ah thanks for clarifying. Then I'm going to ask you, does the Annoconda have any stats or qualities that are lower than this ship?

Landing Pad Size​

Medium

Dimensions​

86.8m x 69.4m x 16m

Pilot Seats​

2

Multicrew​

Yes

Fighter Hangar​

No

Hull Mass​

265 t

Mass Lock Factor​

7

Armour​

486

Armour Hardness​

65

Shields​

264 MJ

Heat Capacity​

230

Fuel Capacity​

32 t

Manoeuvr-​

ability​

4

Top Speed​

288 m/s (default)
325 m/s (upgraded)

Boost Speed​

366 m/s (default)
412 m/s (upgraded)

Unladen Jump Range​

12.96 ly (default)
39.58 ly (upgraded)

Cargo Capacity​

48 t (default)
318 t (max)

I don't see your point, the Annie has way better stats than that

O7

 

[Greasetrap42]

I understand you think my argument is. And that's your opinion to hold. I can't convince of my point if you don't want to engage it with good faith.

You are clearly not discussing in good faith if you understand the concepts of internal ship modules that are necessary to make a ship good and have purpose. Especially any specific purpose.

And if you understand that these modules need engineering, guardian tech, blah, blah, blah, all that takes significant time that it is completely impossible for a new player to do this. The time and activities required just to unlock 5-6 engineers, a typical player would easily have the ingame funds to buy decent ships and outfit them.

Your arguments are crap.

 

[TurkeyApple]

I don't see your point, the Annie has way better stats than that

O7

Then why is Frontier waisting dev time and resources on a ship that offers no advantage than over a different ship? I'm sure when you asked for more content, you wanted content that was actually meaningful to the experience beyond just a ship with a different look.If selling this worse ship, serves no benefit to players, there is no reason for them to be charging early access to it for real money. Especially when the only people likely to buy it, probably do it not knowing any better or have any better options, which is the definition of predatory. And what happens when Frontier does release a ship with massive stat advantages over any ship in a similar role?

 

[TurkeyApple]

You are clearly not discussing in good faith if you understand the concepts of internal ship modules that are necessary to make a ship good and have purpose. Especially any specific purpose.

And if you understand that these modules need engineering, guardian tech, blah, blah, blah, all that takes significant time that it is completely impossible for a new player to do this. The time and activities required just to unlock 5-6 engineers, a typical player would easily have the ingame funds to buy decent ships and outfit them.

Your arguments are crap.

I think that's a fair point, then why sell ships this way at all? But the reality is, player who have the ship early, can start that process sooner than others. To upgrade a ship, you have to own it, and you get ownership of this ship, and can begin improving it faster than other players by paying real world money.

 

[Darrack]

Then why is Frontier waisting dev time and resources on a ship that offers no advantage than over a different ship?

I thought the whole idea of your post was that they are?

O7

 

[TurkeyApple]

I thought the whole idea of your post was that they are?

O7

They can be. And ships aren't always going to be facing ships in similar roles at the same teirs of ship. If you are new to the game, you can purchase a ship with better stats than a sidewinder and not only invalidate the gameplay, but also gain an unfair advantage over players who don't have the money to buy better ships right out of the gate.

 

[TurkeyApple]

They can be. And ships aren't always going to be facing ships in similar roles at the same teirs of ship. If you are new to the game, you can purchase a ship with better stats than a sidewinder and not only invalidate the gameplay, but also gain an unfair advantage over players who don't have the money to buy better ships right out of the gate.

So again, players of the same skill level, can have unfair advantages because they paid real money.

 

[Dillon Fallon]

Ah thanks for clarifying. Then I'm going to ask you, does the Annoconda have any stats or qualities that are lower than this ship?

Landing Pad Size​

Medium

Dimensions​

86.8m x 69.4m x 16m

Pilot Seats​

2

Multicrew​

Yes

Fighter Hangar​

No

Hull Mass​

265 t

Mass Lock Factor​

7

Armour​

486

Armour Hardness​

65

Shields​

264 MJ

Heat Capacity​

230

Fuel Capacity​

32 t

Manoeuvr-​

ability​

4

Top Speed​

288 m/s (default)
325 m/s (upgraded)

Boost Speed​

366 m/s (default)
412 m/s (upgraded)

Unladen Jump Range​

12.96 ly (default)
39.58 ly (upgraded)

Cargo Capacity​

48 t (default)
318 t (max)

Speed and manoeuvrability is lower in the Anaconda, but your figures don't actually mean anything as you haven't factored in engineering or different modules. You've just highlighted that you're arguing from a position of a complete lack of knowledge because no Corsair is built like that.

Mine boosts to 600m/s with a 1000 mj shield, for example. My Anaconda outputs 1900 damage per second versus the 190 of my Corsair. All meaningless if you don't understand different builds and what they're for.

 

[Greasetrap42]

They can be. And ships aren't always going to be facing ships in similar roles at the same teirs of ship. If you are new to the game, you can purchase a ship with better stats than a sidewinder and not only invalidate the gameplay, but also gain an unfair advantage over players who don't have the money to buy better ships right out of the gate.

Is this all boiling down to an unfair advantage that a player might have in their first 10 hours of game play? Seriously? This is what you are arguing?

You are talking about new players that can't afford a ship of their own. And don't have the resources and unlocks to outfit a ship.... until they do. And then the only value of a store-purchased ship is the special paint job that it comes with.

 

[TurkeyApple]

Speed and manoeuvrability is lower in the Anaconda, but your figures don't actually mean anything as you haven't factored in engineering or different modules. You've just highlighted that you're arguing from a position of a complete lack of knowledge because no Corsair is built like that.

Mine boosts to 600m/s with a 1000 mj shield, for example. My Anaconda outputs 1900 damage per second versus the 190 of my Corsair. All meaningless if you don't understand different builds and what they're for.

Then those are qualities someone can use over the other player who hasn't been able to account for them because they didn't pay to understand the ship early.

Your ships have those qualities, but not everyone owns your ships with their exact updgrades. My point still stands, players can have access to a ship that they can use in different ways to outpace other players in different ways by paying early.

 

[TurkeyApple]

Is this all boiling down to an unfair advantage that a player might have in their first 10 hours of game play? Seriously? This is what you are arguing?

You are talking about new players that can't afford a ship of their own. And don't have the resources and unlocks to outfit a ship.... until they do. And then the only value of a store-purchased ship is the special paint job that it comes with.

Why should new players have to deal with unfair elements at all? Not every Commander has the means to buy a new ship with credits anyway as soon as they are released, and they shouldn't be at a disadvantage because someone in a similar position bypassed credits entirely with real world money.

 

[Greasetrap42]

Why should new players have to deal with unfair elements at all? Not every Commander has the means to buy a new ship with credits anyway as soon as they are released, and they shouldn't be at a disadvantage because someone in a similar position bypassed credits entirely with real world money.

You are complaining because a new player with a store purchased ship might have faster game ramp-up time? They might get establishd faster? I'm pretty sure that was Frontier's intent. To get players ramped up and established quicker.

To be clear:
a) A new player with a store purchased ship is simply not going to be competitive against any established player. And the ship they purchased will never be competitive until they gain the resources to outfit it properly. In which time they could likely purchase a completely different ship ingame.

b) An established player is not going to be competitive in a store bought ship without outfitting as they want for whatever purpose. But of course they could have just bought the ship and outfitted it completey ingame.

 

[Darrack]

They can be. And ships aren't always going to be facing ships in similar roles at the same teirs of ship. If you are new to the game, you can purchase a ship with better stats than a sidewinder and not only invalidate the gameplay, but also gain an unfair advantage over players who don't have the money to buy better ships right out of the gate.

You do realise that you can get an Annie within a few days (arguably still the best allrounder in the game), fed rank for a Vette and Imp rank for a cutter within two weeks?
That new ARX ship really makes no difference.
Your talking here about the kickstart ships with some engineering? This has been discussed before, Elite is an old game, just like any other successful game that has been running a while (EQ,WOW,GW2,ESO etc) they offer a leg up to new players so that they can instantly join the action, not better ships, just ships that can at least compete in a world with years of new modules and engineering.

Try competing with my 20+ year old Necro in EQ, you wont and would get bored fast if you didn't at least have a leg up with a purchased character.

O7

 

[Dillon Fallon]

Then those are qualities someone can use over the other player who hasn't been able to account for them because they didn't pay to understand the ship early.

Your ships have those qualities, but not everyone owns your ships with their exact updgrades. My point still stands, players can have access to a ship that they can use in different ways to outpace other players in different ways by paying early.

Nope, in any given task that I would use an Anaconda for I would comfortably outperform a Corsair. As would anyone.