Frigates and Destroyers.

[Sunleader]

The typical range for a modern destroyer's gun is beyond 20 kilometers so...

Engagements would be much more tactical. And logical for that matter. No reason for a shell to drop in space.

And the Typical Range from where Fighters would Attack Ships is 20-30km as well
Mate the Game is not really following Ranges here.

In Reality you could assume that most Spaceships starting with Fighters.
Would likely have Weapons with 30-50km Range.

But in the Game thats not the Case.
So it wont be the Case for Bigger Ships either.

The NPC Only Battleships also only got 3-5km range by the way


Its not very Surprising.
Cause Imagine you would Fight on 20-50km Range
You would not even See the Enemy. xD

 

[Commandeur_Brin]

And the Typical Range from where Fighters would Attack Ships is 20-30km as well
Mate the Game is not really following Ranges here.

In Reality you could assume that most Spaceships starting with Fighters.
Would likely have Weapons with 30-50km Range.

But in the Game thats not the Case.
So it wont be the Case for Bigger Ships either.

The NPC Only Battleships also only got 3-5km range by the way


Its not very Surprising.
Cause Imagine you would Fight on 20-50km Range
You would not even See the Enemy. xD

I'm sorry but I disagree.

The reason we have such a short range in fighter combat is to have a the dogfight feel.

The reason we have such a short range when a capital ships appears is because it mainly engages fighter wings.

If we get destroyers, it WILL need to change.

 

[Sunleader]

I'm sorry but I disagree.

The reason we have such a short range in fighter combat is to have a the dogfight feel.

The reason we have such a short range when a capital ships appears is because it mainly engages fighter wings.

If we get destroyers, it WILL need to change.

The Range is not for the Feel but Simply because its making it easier to Play the Game.
And it wont need any Change.
Dont Forget. The Suggestion Works by putting Destroyers and Frigates into the same Weapon Class as Corvettes just having more Weapons with a Different Setup of Positions.

Cruisers and Higher might later go to Class 5 Weapons and thus might be higher Ranges. Maybe up to 8km
But I dont think FD will ever agree towards increasing Range to anything of what you Demand there.

I would of course not Mind that.
But that would Require an Complete Revamp of the entire Weapons System.
Meaning you would also have to Grant Fighters etc Torpedoes and Missiles capable of Firing over 20-30km and I see no Chance FD would Agree to an Entire Revamp of the System.
So it makes more Sense to go with a System that Requires as little Changes as Possible.


Hence. Normal Class 4 Weapons with Turrets, the Addition of the Ships itself and the Docking Bridges in Front of the Station to easily and without much Designing Solving the Problem of Docking at Stations

 

[Commandeur_Brin]

And yet I don't agree with you. I understand what you are saying and I do agree that the way you put it is feasible and thus the suggestion is acceptable.

But seriously, if we get dogfights with destroyers size ship, it will not work.

 

[Sunleader]

And yet I don't agree with you. I understand what you are saying and I do agree that the way you put it is feasible and thus the suggestion is acceptable.

But seriously, if we get dogfights with destroyers size ship, it will not work.

On that I can Reassure you.
Because nobody wants to Face 3-5 Class 4 Weapons on 2km.

Its Fairly Hard to Stay perfectly on Rear or Front of an Enemy Ship. Even if its much much slower than yourself. So unless the Fighter or whatever is an Real Ace which can basicly Turn like the Current NPCs he will not want to be close and take Fire from your Entire Weapons Sortiment.

So most Fights of Destroyers and Frigates vs whatever. Would likely happen on 3-5km where they can Circle each other Bring their Guns to Bear and Withdraw if they Lose. Meaning they will only Close in once they have enough of an Advantage to give up some of their Firepower to close in and go for the Kill.
While Fighters would only Close in for Short Times and then Retreat again. Trying to nag down on Shields and Subsystems while not taking Continues Fire from the Destroyers Guns.


So you wont really have Dogfights here.
It would just not make sense against an Ship which is Primarily Armed with Turrets

 

[Psycho Romeo]

If you have ever used turrets in this game, you know that they are completely bugged. The targetting system is not made for them and it needs a major overhaul.

Also, we don't want side mounted guns. We want larger ships with different playstyle than the fighter we are now used to and bored of. You are content with what you have and we are not. That's all there is to it so please let us make some propositions and stop trolling.

You are saying it's a different game but it doesn't have to be just that.

Then suggest turrets get fixed and more usable. I'd support that.

The rest of your claims are pretty erroneous.

 

[crutonius]

These seem like some good ideas regarding combat with these larger ships.

One thing I'd like to see overhauled is the parts that don't involve combat. These ideas might be more appropriate for capital ships. Like how to acquire these? Anyone will sell you a hummer. You need some good ties with a military organization to get a tank. I could see the whole rank system getting reworked into something that kind actually makes sense. Like exclusivity to a faction, no admiral kings. Missions that actually flesh out the character of the Federation/Empire. And once they grant you one of these behemoths it doesn't stop there. They'll occasionally send you on missions that can't be refused or else it will damage your reputation and eventually they might seize the ship. Depending on the organization that grants you this charter(hope I'm using this term correctly) they'll have different codes of conduct. Like maybe for the Federation they frown on destroying enemy warships and you have to disable them instead.

Another thing that might be different, pit stops. Obviously they're too big to dock normally with a star port. I've read some clever solutions from other people on this issue. The process of being resupplied should probably be more involved. Like having to deal with personnel, extra paper work and fees(like when you're driving a freight truck across state lines). If they had walking around the station and ships figured out this would be a great time for it because resupplying a frigate is much more time consuming than refueling a sidewinder. But then we're getting double ahead of ourselves.

Anyways that's a few ideas for counterbalancing the immense firepower these vessels would have with restrictions that hopefully more interesting than annoying.

 

[Commandeur_Brin]

The rest of your claims are pretty erroneous.

*sigh*

 

[Sunleader]

These seem like some good ideas regarding combat with these larger ships.

One thing I'd like to see overhauled is the parts that don't involve combat. These ideas might be more appropriate for capital ships. Like how to acquire these? Anyone will sell you a hummer. You need some good ties with a military organization to get a tank. I could see the whole rank system getting reworked into something that kind actually makes sense. Like exclusivity to a faction, no admiral kings. Missions that actually flesh out the character of the Federation/Empire. And once they grant you one of these behemoths it doesn't stop there. They'll occasionally send you on missions that can't be refused or else it will damage your reputation and eventually they might seize the ship. Depending on the organization that grants you this charter(hope I'm using this term correctly) they'll have different codes of conduct. Like maybe for the Federation they frown on destroying enemy warships and you have to disable them instead.

Another thing that might be different, pit stops. Obviously they're too big to dock normally with a star port. I've read some clever solutions from other people on this issue. The process of being resupplied should probably be more involved. Like having to deal with personnel, extra paper work and fees(like when you're driving a freight truck across state lines). If they had walking around the station and ships figured out this would be a great time for it because resupplying a frigate is much more time consuming than refueling a sidewinder. But then we're getting double ahead of ourselves.

Anyways that's a few ideas for counterbalancing the immense firepower these vessels would have with restrictions that hopefully more interesting than annoying.

I am not Sure on the Bigger Involvement.
I do hope that at some Point we actually can Join Factions Properly which will then Exclude us from Joining other Factions and which will Set our Relations with the other Faction based on our Factions Political State.
But I doubt they will Force Missions onto you.

I would keep that in the rear if we ever get Capital Ships like Cruisers etc. Which should Require an Actual Post in the Military if they ever make it in.
The Reason I kept it down to Destroyer is because its pretty much not that far behind Corvettes. Its still Fairly Small of an Warship.
It will be Expensive Like Hell and will Require Reputation like the Imperial Cutter. But I dont think more than that.


Now I want to have NPC Crew Available for All Ships!
I want that as soon as an Ship has a Seat Open that Seat should be able to get Filled with NPCs.

For example.
Engineer = Keeping Power Levels Adjusted to the current Needs. Putting Pips into Shields and Engine if not needed elsewhere. And Moving them to Weapons if your Firing etc.
Co Pilot = Automaticly Adjusts Speed and Drops out on Target Location when in Supercruise.
Gunner = Allows Turrets to Ignore Chaffs and Automaticly Chooses Subsystems as Targets when Firing at Enemy Ships.
Such stuff.
But thats a Different thing


For now I would like to keep it as Simple and Easy to Implement as Possible. So FD has as little as possible Reason to Deny it.

For this an Normal Docking Bridge would be Enough.
The Bigger Stations would have 2 Long Arms Streching out from the Front of the Station. Onto which the Destroyer/Frigate could Align itself and then in the Right Position get Grabbed for a Dock.
From the Start I assume that this is fairly Realistic. Given that in Reality a Bigger Ship would likely also Dock on a Pier rather than on a Landing Pad.

 

[Commandeur_Brin]

For this an Normal Docking Bridge would be Enough.
The Bigger Stations would have 2 Long Arms Streching out from the Front of the Station. Onto which the Destroyer/Frigate could Align itself and then in the Right Position get Grabbed for a Dock.
From the Start I assume that this is fairly Realistic. Given that in Reality a Bigger Ship would likely also Dock on a Pier rather than on a Landing Pad.

I also think this is the realistic way to do it but there are some issues :

- Collisions
- available docking spots (with ships remaining where they are)
- Ships storage
- Outfitting

I think the only way is to have a non-rotating section of station where ships would get tugged in lateral hangars rather than landing on pads.

 

[Sunleader]

I also think this is the realistic way to do it but there are some issues :

- Collisions
- available docking spots (with ships remaining where they are)
- Ships storage
- Outfitting

I think the only way is to have a non-rotating section of station where ships would get tugged in lateral hangars rather than landing on pads.

1.
Not Really.
There is one Section on all Major Space Stations which can Rotate all it wants and does not Change its Position.
The other End of the Station. Opposite to the Docking Ring.
Add an Long Docking Bridge with 4 Hooking Bays and you got an Nice Pier for Larger Ships.
Since Smaller Ships also Cancel out Rotation by their Support Thrusters this can be Dont Close to this Pier as well. Meaning once your close enough. Your Ship will Follow the Rotation Automaticly.

2.
Assuming Point one Above I would say 4 Docking Slots is Fairly Easy to Implement.

3.
Currently if you Log Out you Vanish.
Same for your Stored Ship.
I had cases were I spawned on Different Pads when Relogging than I was when I logged out as well.
So there is nothing new Here.

4.
Outfitting on Bigger Ships is usually done in Open Docks anyways.
It even Spares us making a New Hangar Graphic. Since even in Reality Bigger Vessels are very rarely enter Internal Docks and are usually Repaired and Upgraded in the Harbor Directly.
See no Problem with that

 

[Commandeur_Brin]

1.
Not Really.
There is one Section on all Major Space Stations which can Rotate all it wants and does not Change its Position.
The other End of the Station. Opposite to the Docking Ring.
Add an Long Docking Bridge with 4 Hooking Bays and you got an Nice Pier for Larger Ships.
Since Smaller Ships also Cancel out Rotation by their Support Thrusters this can be Dont Close to this Pier as well. Meaning once your close enough. Your Ship will Follow the Rotation Automaticly.

2.
Assuming Point one Above I would say 4 Docking Slots is Fairly Easy to Implement.

3.
Currently if you Log Out you Vanish.
Same for your Stored Ship.
I had cases were I spawned on Different Pads when Relogging than I was when I logged out as well.
So there is nothing new Here.

4.
Outfitting on Bigger Ships is usually done in Open Docks anyways.
It even Spares us making a New Hangar Graphic. Since even in Reality Bigger Vessels are very rarely enter Internal Docks and are usually Repaired and Upgraded in the Harbor Directly.
See no Problem with that

You are missing most of my point.

I don't think FD will have ships popping in and out outside stations or ships changing colors in plain sight. Also 4 slots is just not enough. If you manage to haul ships inside it frees a slot.

But DB has said that they are investigating it, so might not be a problem after all...

I follow you on the rest of the suggestion ! I want bigger ships ! MUCH BIGGER !

 

[Sunleader]

You are missing most of my point.

I don't think FD will have ships popping in and out outside stations or ships changing colors in plain sight. Also 4 slots is just not enough. If you manage to haul ships inside it frees a slot.

But DB has said that they are investigating it might not be a problem after all...

I follow you on the rest of the suggestion ! I want bigger ships ! MUCH BIGGER !

Currently Big Stations have only 7 Large Pads.
So having 4 Huge Pads is fine in my Eyes.

Its not like you will have Tons of People Flying around with Frigates and Destroyers.



Also.
There is one other Method which can be done here.

If you Insist on Landing Pads and Internal Docking.
You could also use the Shaft on the Opposite Side of the Station and make it an Big Quarter Partet Shaft.
Meaning you got 4 Sides on it with Huge Landing Pads.

This would allow to pretty much use the Normal Landing Pad System including Internal Hangar without making much Extra Effort.



I Do however think that you should have less Huge Pads than you got Big Pads.
Since the Station has only 7 Big Pads.
I think 4 Huge Pads would be good enough.



Also who is DB ?

 

[Commandeur_Brin]

David Braben !

 

[Sunleader]

David Braben !

Mind linking me to where he talked about it ?
Would be really Interested in that.

(Funny enough while Searching on Google I found Articles where he even talked about Boerding other Ships and so on lol)
Wonder how true these Articles are tough.

 

[Commandeur_Brin]

Don't remember ! I think it was a stream and he was talking about the panther clipper.

They have always talked about boarding other's ships. Just not anymore but I sure hope it will be next season.

 

[Sunleader]

Don't remember ! I think it was a stream and he was talking about the panther clipper.

They have always talked about boarding other's ships. Just not anymore but I sure hope it will be next season.

Too bad.
Hoped to get a read on this.
Guess i.ll check the dev diary videos later.

 

[Azmuth Divarchchron]

We already have frigates/destroyers/corvettes in the game the devs just havent appropriately named the ships. Anaconda, imperial cutter, type-9 and federal corvette are all frigate class, Python, FDL, Orca, imperial clipper and type 7 are all corvette class, your FAS, FDS, FGS, Asp Explorer are your destroyers. as for anything bigger than the frigates we already have, fronteir plans to impliment player owned capital ships down the road and give the current frigates in the game the ability to carry their own fighters. especially if you consider the anaconda is about the same size as a united states naval air craft carrier. what I think you are looking to be added to the game are Juggernaught classes and battlestar classes

Here is a good example:

[video=youtube;W4bEQlVvUvI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4bEQlVvUvI[/video]

 

[Sunleader]

We already have frigates/destroyers/corvettes in the game the devs just havent appropriately named the ships. Anaconda, imperial cutter, type-9 and federal corvette are all frigate class, Python, FDL, Orca, imperial clipper and type 7 are all corvette class, your FAS, FDS, FGS, Asp Explorer are your destroyers. as for anything bigger than the frigates we already have, fronteir plans to impliment player owned capital ships down the road and give the current frigates in the game the ability to carry their own fighters. especially if you consider the anaconda is about the same size as a united states naval air craft carrier.

Negative!
Sorry Mate but thats just not correct.
The naming is fairly well right now.
They match well with the Roles and Armaments of the Ships.

Naming stuff like Cutter etc as Frigate would be a joke.
Because starting with Frigates you stop having Front Heavy Weapons.


Also compared to ingame Battlecruiser Class. It makes even less sense to call these Ships as Frigates or Destroyers.
They neither have the Size nor the Fortitude for it.

No offense but checking the Farragut Battlecruiser.
Even the Federal Corvette would need to be about 3 times its size to count as an Destroyer. Almost twice its size to be a Frigate.




Said this before.
But ED is keeping this fairly in line actually.
In reality Corvettes had a Large Front Weapon and only smaller Weapons in the sides.

The Gunships/Gunboats are also matching as they have frontal and side guns.


So far there is no Ships matching the Role or Armaments of an Frigate. Much less that on Destroyer.

 

[Psycho Romeo]

We already have frigates/destroyers/corvettes in the game the devs just havent appropriately named the ships.

Negative!
Sorry Mate but thats just not correct.

You're both wrong. The names have nothing to do with anything other than what FD decides they want their names to be.