Frontier don't even honour their own words!!! (Angry about VR)

[Erei]

A principle can transcend it's origin or the beast who spoke it though, in fact considering this episode of history happened to very real people we would be fooling ourselves to believe that the sins committed in the past are not present in our humanity now, we just obviously wish to never repeat them. I believe we can learn from the fact that it wasn't always monsters that did monstrous things. That's fooling ourselves. The quote has merit, and if people are ready to let the past go.. can be laughed at. I get your point though, some won't see it like that.

You don't understand, the poem is about the Nazi slowly killing everyone who opposed them, while everyone else stayed silent. It's about the holocaust, and the fact that people who don't speak are as guilty as the one who do the atrocities.

I'll post it there :

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

I hope it's not moderated because it's political, but it's an important part of history, written by someone who experienced that first hand. And it is something that should be remembered and known.
Especially when in recent history people have been comparing minor issue with the Holocaust.

Compairing the lack of VR to the Holocaust is wrong. As I said, I thought about doing the joke, then realized that. So I didn't. I think it's bad taste and doesn't help the argument presented.

 

[Pigletslastand]

Ah thanks for the clarificationl... yes i see now he was an intellectual saying how the creeping effect took over due to inaction and "well it's not me, i'm alright mentality" I think the idea can be applied though as it was fairly universal a point although this was one instance with a truly horid outcome.

 

[VerticalBlank]

I was seeking only to illusrate the "drip, drip" nature of what is going on.

I did not seek in any way to strike parallels to the Holocaust and in that aspect I chose a wrong analogy and sincerely apologise.

Edit: spelling

 

[Erei]

I was seeking only to illusrate the "drip, drip" nature of what is going on.

I did not seek in any way to strike parallels to the Holocaust and in that aspect I chose a wrong analogy and sincerely apologise.

Edit: spelling

I understand, and it's ok

 

[Pigletslastand]

Tbh I think the current members that are viewing this understand and wouldn't attribute anything ill toward you, the prob is you can't account for how everyone will react can you!

 

[Shinji Ikari]

I really dont get posts like this. "Maybe later but no promise" means literally that. "Not at launch" means literally that. He isn't stringing anyone along, I am not holding out any expectations. You know why? Because he says there is currently zero activity on it. He can't promise it won't happen, but there is nothing positive on that front.

It's stuff like this that causes Dev studios to not communicate at all. If we can't even parse "we have literally zero plans but may at some point look at it" then there is just no point to any communication. He couldn't possibly be any clearer or more straightforward.

And yet FD keep opening their big mounths. You either communicate in a clear manner or you mute yourself, the in-between is a disaster in the making. "Not at launch" intentially gives the reader the hope development may continue afterwards ('may' as in, it is planned).

 

[Pigletslastand]

I'd love it if we could all take the mick out of each other a bit over sensitive stuff as I kinda think it shows we've all moved on..and that's what friends do isn't it? Rib each other about stuff.. but i think you can tell the difference when someone is drawing a direct parallel and TRYING to make you out as being synonymous with evil and that's clearly beyond the pale.. One day we'll get there. Then again maybe on the other hand some things are just too serious to be joked about.. i dunno, I'm not convinced of my own opinions yet on that one, would love to sit down over a beer and discuss this with you all but this is absolutely not the place to do it as it would be verbotten I'm sure and wouldn't wanna cause needless offence by accident or design!

 

[Erei]

I'd love it if we could all take the mick out of each other a bit over sensitive stuff as I kinda think it shows we've all moved on..and that's what friends do isn't it? Rib each other about stuff.. but i think you can tell the difference when someone is drawing a direct parallel and TRYING to make you out as being synonymous with evil and that's clearly beyond the pale.. One day we'll get there. Then again maybe on the other hand some things are just too serious to be joked about.. i dunno, I'm not convinced of my own opinions yet on that one, would love to sit down over a beer and discuss this with you all but this is absolutely not the place to do it as it would be verbotten I'm sure and wouldn't wanna cause needless offence by accident or design!

I think it would be best to drop it and move on Not the topic, discussion was made and resolved. Let it go.

 

[Ralph Vargr]

Confessing the lack of optimization after being caught out is telling enough.

 

[Pigletslastand]

Don't worry.. it's not gonna go any further

 

[BurntJello]

Full transcript by TomParkes1993

https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/o0ilo5/_/h1v72uy

Source: https://reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/o0ilo5/fdev_there_are_no_plans_to_develop_vr_for_odyssey/h1v72uy


Bruce: "VR is near and dear to the communities heart, we've had a lot of questions and talk around VR recently obviously it was introduced in odyssey sort of in a, well in the on foot state you get the virtual screen up and so you can sort of continue your experience in VR on foot, but not in the fully sort of running around with the headset on state that some people would really like. We've been reading your discussions closely, listening to your suggestions, noting them all down, we do intend to make a bunch of changes based on various bugs and fixes that have come up, but that is as far as it's going to go for the time being, sorry to be the bearer of this news to those who will be disappointed by it, but there are no plans to develop VR for Odyssey further than it's current state, however we will be making some fixes and changes (DSS improvement), but that is the state of VR for Odyssey"

Zac: "Obviously, these things may change in the future, they may not, but as Bruce said that's the current situation. BUT that doesn't mean we aren't going to fix the problems that are currently in VR, (DSS bug)"

Thanks for posting the transcript.

So first, I decided to NOT buy Odyssey "at launch."
Now, I have no plans to buy Odyssey in it's "current state."

Odyssey was supposed to be "finished" when it launched. It isn't finished until it is playable in VR. I'm not buying an unfinished product.

Now they say they will never finish it. Disappointing. I guess I'll wait until it's on sale for $2, because that's all it's worth at this point, if that.

So, now we get to make another super long thread to pressure FDev into finishing VR.

And to me "finishing" VR only really means turning it on and getting rid of the stupid "virtual" screen nonsense. Just make sure the HUD is on screen and let me use my keyboard/mouse. It shouldn't be hard for FDev... someone is just making the BAD decision to not do it.

 

[Kuckooo]

They might all happen one day. That's all fine. But that's very different to "Currently, Elite Dangerous: Odyssey will not be VR-compatible at launch." which implies it will come later, but after launch. People will have made their purchase of Odyssey based upon that.

Not to sound overly cynical but I think that was exactly the point. To say just enough in a vague manner and without actually committing to anything, simply to get enough people interested enough to make decision about a purchase. Only for FDev to come back later - post purchase - to explicitly say "Sorry, we're not working on VR". And choosing now to say so because now it wouldn't make a difference on affecting already tanking sales and abating the tsunami of negative reviews.

Textbook Bait-and-Switch. They got your money. They ain't giving it back without a fight. But here's a crappy, unfinished, bugged-to-hell Alpha posing as an "official release" so they can continue to charge full retail for it. It's almost a scam.

FDev knows exactly what they are doing.

 

[NoVR - What_The_X_F_Dev]

Your '50% chance' estimate is based on jack all though. And you are not fighting, you are complaining on the internet.

It's all good, but let's keep things straight a bit.

Two outcomes, we change their minds or we dont, 100% probability split in two = 50/50?
Want to make a more educated approximate assessment of the likelihoods? Past performance predicts future actions, right? Last year, through June to september a war was waged on the forum, with many eyes damaged by the attrocious blue orange blinky avatars, and many megabytes of comments typed out by a passionate VR community, and Frontier changed their stance from a hard NO VR WHATSOEVER IN ODYSSEY to a more moderate SOME VR position. We are still as passionate and only asking for a fraction of what was asked for last time, so that would stack the odds to something more like 80/20 in our favour.

"When they did for the VR users, I said nothing, because I was not a VR user.
"When they did for the explorers finding ever-different planets, I said nothing, because I don't explore planets.
"When they did for the commanders looking for better on-foot gear, I said nothing, because I don't play on foot.
"When my favourite game died I did not understand it."

VERY WELL PUT. That's a very good use of a poignant message through the paraphrased poetry, +1 from me! Later on you got callenged on this post because of its original context, I firmly believe that you haven't done anything offensive, and I'm about to clarify why I think that.

[SNIP] people who don't speak are as guilty as the one who do the atrocities. [/SNIP]

To not oppose a wrong it to tacitly condone it...
View attachment 241172

 

[VR StarLightPL]

I was seeking only to illusrate the "drip, drip" nature of what is going on.

I did not seek in any way to strike parallels to the Holocaust and in that aspect I chose a wrong analogy and sincerely apologise.

Edit: spelling

I'm polish, and I didn't find that parallel offensive despite many Poles being killed in nazi germany concentration camps built in our occupied country, in fact I found the parallel very fitting.

However if that's too sensitive for some cmdrs, I'd suggest the boiling frog metaphor as we're dangerously close to have this topic locked for (unnecessary) politics:

Boiling frog - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[JR250]

...say just enough in a vague manner and without actually committing to anything, simply to get enough people interested enough to make decision about a purchase. Only for FDev to come back later - post purchase - to explicitly say "Sorry, we're not working on VR". And choosing now to say so because now it wouldn't make a difference on affecting already tanking sales and abating the tsunami of negative reviews.

Textbook Bait-and-Switch.

Get got me, hook, line and sinker with that ruse.

Seeing Horizons with such an amazing VR implementation made me believe it would be inconceivable they would produce the next stage of their long-term project without it. What a fool I was.

Moving on, I learned my lesson. Cannot make assumptions about what FDev says as they are out to trick me as their customer. Will not support them by buying anything pre-released. Will not be an understanding and patient customer when their servers are down or a bug appears - they have $54.99 of my money I can use in support calls.

JR

 

[VR StarLightPL]

Will not support them by buying anything pre-released

In general you shouldn't do that even to companies you trust, like I did with CDPR. It reinforces bad behaviour.
EDIT: unless the deal is good of course, a -30% off or something. But you will still be an unpaid betatester on release.

 

[sgurr]

Honestly people need to calm down about further VR development, they've committed to following through on what they said they would do, which is cockpit VR and a projected screen on foot.

We weren't getting Odyssey in VR at all until us VR players made enough noise, and now some VR players are asking for way more.

I think some folk need to be a little more respectful their expectations and how they speak towards the FD, it's not a good look for the VR community as a whole.


ps. and yes, I'm a dedicated VR player

 

[Cpt.Badger]

I think some folk need to be a little more respectful their expectations and how they speak towards the FD, it's not a good look for the VR community as a whole.

I think you got this completely backwards lol.
We are the paying customers. They are the corporate scammers misleading us with purposedly crafted PR speech aka sugarcoated lies.

 

[sgurr]

I think you got this completely backwards lol.
We are the paying customers. They are the corporate scammers misleading us with purposedly crafted PR speech aka sugarcoated lies.

Yes we are paying customers, and we made our VR voices heard last year. FD then committed to cockit VR which from my point of view was a huge win vs having nothing at all.

There have been no sugercoated lies about what would happen next, I knew exactly what to expect from Odyssey VR and it's there as they said it would be.

 

[NoVR - What_The_X_F_Dev]

"Not at launch" != "Never" ==They lied to us; simples!