I used the present continuous tense, do you know what that is?
We've had half the Beyond updates - they didn't really deliver.
If the next two do, then great, but that's not my expectation based on the first two.
Frontier has abdicated their progamming responsibilities to Elite: Dangerous
- Thread starter amadeus1171
- Start date
I used the present continuous tense, do you know what that is?
We've had half the Beyond updates - they didn't really deliver.
If the next two do, then great, but that's not my expectation based on the first two.
With you OP
The defence is strong on this one. * stops Vader voice
Beyond was meant to be a QOL patch for a year, What we get? Some new ships and some more crp to buy in the store.
Unless I see otherwise ED Looks like is on minimum viable product mode and a cash cow for the shop.
Can't see how people can keep defending FDev. Like the game yeah but seriously they dont deserve a defence force. Won't help one bit you know.
The defence is strong on this one. * stops Vader voice
Beyond was meant to be a QOL patch for a year, What we get? Some new ships and some more crp to buy in the store.
Unless I see otherwise ED Looks like is on minimum viable product mode and a cash cow for the shop.
Can't see how people can keep defending FDev. Like the game yeah but seriously they dont deserve a defence force. Won't help one bit you know.
Yes. What you said could be interpreted in different ways though. It was poorly worded.
As it has delivered exactly what they said it would and a bit more, I am unsure how you are saying it hasn't delieverd.
Surely that's an opinion
Nope. Its a fact, they delievered exactly what they said they would. What is opinion is whether you liked what they delivered. Personally I liked some, other stuff I wasn't that fussed about.
Nope. Its a fact, they delievered exactly what they said they would. What is opinion is whether you liked what they delivered. Personally I liked some, other stuff I wasn't that fussed about.
Only because you have a bad habit of moving the goalposts to suit yourself.
I've bolded the original comment I quoted so that the delivery context is entirely clear for you.
Information starvation is a thing in ED.
For me the most glaring omission is ...... Planetary Navigation.
And if third parties can add it, then certainly the Devs can do it much better.
I am mystified as to why after all this time we still do not have a good planetary nav system.
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And whether it was poorly implemented seems to be down to personal opinion on some stuff.
As to me moving goalposts, are you're having a laugh mate. Don't think I have ever done that, but I know a lot of forumites that do.
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Or better still
Have FDEV take control of these tools say INARA and integrate them better into the game as web app, so you have to alt tab out to use the computer big deal.
Have FDEV take control of these tools say INARA and integrate them better into the game as web app, so you have to alt tab out to use the computer big deal.
Hello OP,
I've not been around the forums much for around a year now. I see the list you have made and understand the context of the post but I have to ask the following:
Which bit of game play can I not do without the use of a third party site or tool?
I agree there are some changes I would like to see, several design choices which I find hard to understand and some features which would make the game easier (quicker) to play but as of yet I am still to find one single thing which I cannot do within the game given time, a pen and some paper or even the use of my brain to remember things (This last method is losing it's reliability though).
dayrth
Volunteer Moderator
There are some incredibly talented people out there creating third party tools for use with ED. I use many of them myself. What I don't understand is why some people get upset about these not being provided by FD. If a perfectly good third party solution is freely available, why would it be a good idea for FD to duplicate that effort to provide nothing new? I'd rather they put that effort in to making stuff we don't have yet.
rootsrat
Volunteer Moderator
Yeah, a lot of the games have mods/tools made by the community and I've never seen complaints that the devs don't provide those.
Guess our community is somewhat special
You are too harsh on FDev. Developers have to learn on something and Elite Dangerous UI is obviously a result of it. 10 clicks to install a shield booster when you need 7 or 8 boosters tells us enough about the development process and the learning curve. I don't think there is any hope they can make those things more usable than INARA or EDDB. All you would get is more UI clutter with even less usable UI. Relax.
I enjoy piddling out of game. When not playing I can plan for my next session. And of course one could have all the qol stuff I get from Inara ingame but it makes it feel much more clever to sit and browse commodity markets irl and make a killing with out of game tools. More involving. In my early days I didn't look up anything. I got experience. As the flight hours racked up my sessions became more focused. Had these fanmade tools been in the game from thet get go everything would have been more streamlined and the sense of personal ED-growth had been negligent. Just another game where you run at waypoint markers ticking boxes. No mystery, nothing to learn or master.
But that's just my opinion. I'm engrossed by Elite and glad it isn't what some others want it to be. I like my obtuse games with integrity. I'm not here to be handheld or entertained. I entertain myself and learn by doing.
And if a game annoys me I shut it down and play any of the multitude of other games available. Oh, I know. There's nothing like ED to replace it with. Well I wouldn't dream of demanding it to transform into what I crave. I'd just bear with it if it had enough pull or retreat.
Love it or leave it sort of.
Edit: And of course a game can evolve and be improved by constructive critique. Thing is that most critique I read on this forum isn't constructive at all. It's negative and childish moaning. Very uncool stuff.
But that's just my opinion. I'm engrossed by Elite and glad it isn't what some others want it to be. I like my obtuse games with integrity. I'm not here to be handheld or entertained. I entertain myself and learn by doing.
And if a game annoys me I shut it down and play any of the multitude of other games available. Oh, I know. There's nothing like ED to replace it with. Well I wouldn't dream of demanding it to transform into what I crave. I'd just bear with it if it had enough pull or retreat.
Love it or leave it sort of.
Edit: And of course a game can evolve and be improved by constructive critique. Thing is that most critique I read on this forum isn't constructive at all. It's negative and childish moaning. Very uncool stuff.
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Time to sing the doom song!!! \o/
![[VR] Deggial](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/47/47252.jpg?1553527110){kind=avatar}
Yeah, a lot of the games have mods/tools made by the community and I've never seen complaints that the devs don't provide those.
Guess our community is somewhat special
We have a whole bunch of console players though.
I don't see "A PC with Windows" listed under "minimum requirements" for the console version of the game.
Better solution:
Get rid of the need to consume trading data and etc..
The game shouldn't be about who can memorize the most spreadsheets or play the numbers game with various background mechanics. So the solution should be one that eliminates those avenues and instead focuses the player on the intentional things in the game that the player should master.
So we get rid of the stupid trade system that's circa 1985 and change to an on-demand courier system. Large mega corps handle the day in and day out trading of goods and services for planets and stations. You as an independent pilot, take on the one-off delivery requests of citizens or companies. The types of courier missions will be impacted by the local situation of systems and BGS. Since trading then no longer deals with bulk goods / commodities, this aspect of spreadsheet jockeying is eliminated with no negative drawback since that mechanic was boring and stupid to begin with.
Miners are impacted by this change to the trading system. Instead of miners trying to collect ore in quantities that dont make any sense in the economy of the future, mining will shift more towards prospecting roids rather than individually mining them. Miners sample roids looking for roids with rare makeups. This data is then logged to the ship's computer when enough sampling has been done (passive sensors are unable to penetrate into roids sufficiently to get appropriate readings of mineral makup). The miner then sells this data at stations to the local companies that are offering to buy such data. The more data sold to a given faction's companies, the better off they become economically. Prospecting drones are seen as a 1st step, only the in-depth analysis on a ship can give the necessary data needed to sell info about a roid.
So while the stupid implementation of how asteroids are done in the game doesn't change (still RNG crap), we can shift the role of miners to something that makes much more sense, while eliminating a mechanic (the commodity trading system) and all the garbage that goes along with it.
Ok, so commodity trading is gone. No need to see what good x sells for at station y. The new trading system is mission based, unable to be logged and spreadsheeted since what's offered is completely dependent on the dynamic BGS and changes every few minutes and can be impacted by the particular player looking. So far so good.
Now, the other aspect of spreadsheet jockeying that needs to go is ship balancing.
This is a multi-step correction.
1. Get rid of internal modules and core module customization. The only thing you will be able to customize are hardpoints
2. Create ship variants, with custom loadouts of the now non-customizable ship components - allowing regionalization of ships and providing some better incorporation of factions in a way that players can experience directly. Maybe certain factions are really focused at mining. Perhaps some are really focused on military ships. etc.
3. Dump engineers as it currently exists. Instead, engineers should be seen as black market illegal mods to ships that only exist for the particular ship modded. These would be very simple - straightforward changes to stats of a module that show a clear positive and negative aspect to a given engineer mod. No special effects.
With the ship changes, we can see a huge explosion in the number of ships available, with variants offering developer controlled knowns of pros and cons to all various ship stats. This allows full control over balancing. It also means players will have to strategize their ship selection as the focus shifts from attempting to make the ultimate all-rounder ship to having a selection of ships that lets you perform your various desired activities. Larger ships will be more free to be implemented like lumbering large ships and smaller ships will be able to be more accurately impelmented to their size. The developers are in control over the options available to ensure that nothing is best or worst at anything not intentional and that's far more preferrable than creating a system that forces players to spreadsheet jockey to find the best.
The change to engineers allows engineers to be canonically accurate within the game while also not destroying the careful balance of ships in the game. With no ship being great at more than 1 thing, there's far less pressure to try and find the perfect loadout and there's no way to get an edge in combat by buying or finding the best ship. any ship you get, will have weaknesses that can be exploited by the right other ship, and so on. So, gone will be the days of just picking something big and rolling over npcs / cmdr's.
So with those changes in place, you eliminate nearly all of the grindy that players fill their time with in the game. Leaving them fully open to role playing, following the narrative, and doing the missions. So assuming that Fdev actually starts putting some effort into the actual meat of the game...this will leave only travel in the game left to really fix so the game doesn't feel utterly boring and devoid of content as you move from point A to point B. But that's off topic.
So yea, i dont want fdev to rely on third party development to add content to the game. But i dont think there should be a need for the third party development to begin with not because Fdev should do it themselves, but because it's a symptom of a problem in the game to begin with and should be corrected by eliminating that need rather than finding a way to fulfill it.
Get rid of the need to consume trading data and etc..
The game shouldn't be about who can memorize the most spreadsheets or play the numbers game with various background mechanics. So the solution should be one that eliminates those avenues and instead focuses the player on the intentional things in the game that the player should master.
So we get rid of the stupid trade system that's circa 1985 and change to an on-demand courier system. Large mega corps handle the day in and day out trading of goods and services for planets and stations. You as an independent pilot, take on the one-off delivery requests of citizens or companies. The types of courier missions will be impacted by the local situation of systems and BGS. Since trading then no longer deals with bulk goods / commodities, this aspect of spreadsheet jockeying is eliminated with no negative drawback since that mechanic was boring and stupid to begin with.
Miners are impacted by this change to the trading system. Instead of miners trying to collect ore in quantities that dont make any sense in the economy of the future, mining will shift more towards prospecting roids rather than individually mining them. Miners sample roids looking for roids with rare makeups. This data is then logged to the ship's computer when enough sampling has been done (passive sensors are unable to penetrate into roids sufficiently to get appropriate readings of mineral makup). The miner then sells this data at stations to the local companies that are offering to buy such data. The more data sold to a given faction's companies, the better off they become economically. Prospecting drones are seen as a 1st step, only the in-depth analysis on a ship can give the necessary data needed to sell info about a roid.
So while the stupid implementation of how asteroids are done in the game doesn't change (still RNG crap), we can shift the role of miners to something that makes much more sense, while eliminating a mechanic (the commodity trading system) and all the garbage that goes along with it.
Ok, so commodity trading is gone. No need to see what good x sells for at station y. The new trading system is mission based, unable to be logged and spreadsheeted since what's offered is completely dependent on the dynamic BGS and changes every few minutes and can be impacted by the particular player looking. So far so good.
Now, the other aspect of spreadsheet jockeying that needs to go is ship balancing.
This is a multi-step correction.
1. Get rid of internal modules and core module customization. The only thing you will be able to customize are hardpoints
2. Create ship variants, with custom loadouts of the now non-customizable ship components - allowing regionalization of ships and providing some better incorporation of factions in a way that players can experience directly. Maybe certain factions are really focused at mining. Perhaps some are really focused on military ships. etc.
3. Dump engineers as it currently exists. Instead, engineers should be seen as black market illegal mods to ships that only exist for the particular ship modded. These would be very simple - straightforward changes to stats of a module that show a clear positive and negative aspect to a given engineer mod. No special effects.
With the ship changes, we can see a huge explosion in the number of ships available, with variants offering developer controlled knowns of pros and cons to all various ship stats. This allows full control over balancing. It also means players will have to strategize their ship selection as the focus shifts from attempting to make the ultimate all-rounder ship to having a selection of ships that lets you perform your various desired activities. Larger ships will be more free to be implemented like lumbering large ships and smaller ships will be able to be more accurately impelmented to their size. The developers are in control over the options available to ensure that nothing is best or worst at anything not intentional and that's far more preferrable than creating a system that forces players to spreadsheet jockey to find the best.
The change to engineers allows engineers to be canonically accurate within the game while also not destroying the careful balance of ships in the game. With no ship being great at more than 1 thing, there's far less pressure to try and find the perfect loadout and there's no way to get an edge in combat by buying or finding the best ship. any ship you get, will have weaknesses that can be exploited by the right other ship, and so on. So, gone will be the days of just picking something big and rolling over npcs / cmdr's.
So with those changes in place, you eliminate nearly all of the grindy that players fill their time with in the game. Leaving them fully open to role playing, following the narrative, and doing the missions. So assuming that Fdev actually starts putting some effort into the actual meat of the game...this will leave only travel in the game left to really fix so the game doesn't feel utterly boring and devoid of content as you move from point A to point B. But that's off topic.
So yea, i dont want fdev to rely on third party development to add content to the game. But i dont think there should be a need for the third party development to begin with not because Fdev should do it themselves, but because it's a symptom of a problem in the game to begin with and should be corrected by eliminating that need rather than finding a way to fulfill it.
Thanks but I was thinking more like this:
[video=youtube;s2jvANh2aEc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2jvANh2aEc[/video]
I know. But that one is getting old and I thought, some new doom would be appreciated ...
(On the other hand ... calling YOB new is not exactly accurate either.)
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