Frontier.... How do you decide.....

[paul78]

@darthquell good points. It’s very true in the sense if frontier can do the occasional reskin with additional edits and the same rig they will indeed do so. It’s cheaper not to mention a quicker and easier process. In the case of a giraffe subspecies or any other wolves,brown bears,zebras,ect. Your still getting a very unique individual animal to put in your zoos. It’s great to have the choice between a plains zebra or grevy’s. Reskins are a matter of personal choice tho as a Sumatran tiger is more appealing then a lemur or zebra for me. But as Iben mentioned there’s only certain animals you can use as a reskin which usually requires at least minimal edits. As in the case of the Bengal and Sumatran tiger.

Sumatran

Bengal
Sure close enough to pull of a reskin but... still requires some extra work to realistically pull it off as there are subtle differences between them.

 

[MrHappy]

Topic changed

 

[solacefruit]

I'd also love to know what goes on in the discussion rooms at Frontier, because they've consistently been very smart about how they produce and market this game, in my opinion, and I'd love to know in exactly how much detail they go into when it comes to what content to release when. I wouldn't be surprised if they map out (at least approximately) their 2-3 year plan post-release before/while building the game, and then only tweak as necessary when unexpected delays or particularly useful feedback is generated from the users throughout that period. That makes the most sense given the long-term, regular DLC + support model that they've been following for Planet Zoo, and their previous games (i.e., Planet Coaster and Jurassic World: Evolution).

I guess for this reason, I find it a little funny when people in social media comments etc. are like, "hey please do x DLC next!" because requests like that suppose such a wild tiny turnaround for the work this game actually requires. The DLC we'll see around June-July (presuming the regular schedule pattern sticks, which I think it will since it's a crucial part of their long-term engagement strategy so far) is likely being finished up and polished now, but was decided upon probably over a year ago and worked on parallel to this DLC. I get the feeling Frontier's team doesn't work totally linear and instead stagger their content design, but that is admittedly just a vibe I have based on the quality of their work + the speed of production. (You know that triangle that's like "pick two: fast, cheap, good"? Frontier's work for Planet Zoo DLC so far hits all three--for me at least--which leads me to believe that "fast" is an illusion created by good planning).

Anyway! All this to say, my (completely off-the-street two cents) opinion is that nothing is being done even remotely "on the fly" where DLC and other major features of Planet Zoo are concerned. I think a decent amount of the updates (especially bug fixes and quality of life changes) are in response to player feedback and added as things are requested, but I believe a lot of DLC etc. planning would have been required when the game was first proposed as proof of concept/viable long-term as a game for the studio to undertake. Some people mentioned that the team might intentionally "hold things back" but honestly, I don't think that's a fair way to see it: their interest is in supporting the game--and making sure it stays relevant and evolving and interesting for players--for a while, rather than just on release. New exciting content being put out regularly is a fantastic way to achieve that cycle of fresh engagement.

 

[PeppyPepp]

In my opinion, the first year was pretty much set in terms of DLCs. We got the Arctic pack shortly after release, just in time for the holidays. We got SA pack to "cover" that area of the world, same with AUS pack and finally Aquatic in December. Animals like polar bears, jaguars, kangaroos, koalas, seals, and penguins were left out of the base game on purpose so they could be sold separately as DLCs (even more so with seals and penguins; the devs said it was difficult to implement diving).

Now we are onto the second year of PZ and I think we'll get to see DLCs that will be more in tune with what the community wants. SEA Animal pack is the first step in that direction. I am positive we will get frequently requested items like more backstage scenery, chain link mesh for making aviaries, general zoo props that aren't themed but are in every zoo. I suspect that we'll be getting aviaries at the end of the year.

Just my observation. I do think this year will be better in terms of additional content.

 

[Bearcat9948]

In my opinion, the first year was pretty much set in terms of DLCs. We got the Arctic pack shortly after release, just in time for the holidays. We got SA pack to "cover" that area of the world, same with AUS pack and finally Aquatic in December. Animals like polar bears, jaguars, kangaroos, koalas, seals, and penguins were left out of the base game on purpose so they could be sold separately as DLCs (even more so with seals and penguins; the devs said it was difficult to implement diving).

Now we are onto the second year of PZ and I think we'll get to see DLCs that will be more in tune with what the community wants. SEA Animal pack is the first step in that direction. I am positive we will get frequently requested items like more backstage scenery, chain link mesh for making aviaries, general zoo props that aren't themed but are in every zoo. I suspect that we'll be getting aviaries at the end of the year.

Just my observation. I do think this year will be better in terms of additional content.

My ideal world is African Animals pack in the end of June, a NA pack in the end of September (obviously would prefer just animals, but I could live with 4 + 1 if they get the picks right) and then a big aviary pack at the end of December, or just before they go on holiday break. Then at least two more dlc in 2022.

 

[solacefruit]

@PeppyPepp
Very interested to know why you suspect this kind of content is on the horizon! Personally I don't think backstage type scenery is likely, and definitely not as part of DLC pack: possibly as free updates, but I just don't see them breaking format to the Animal Packs just to return to animal + scenery packs, especially for something as hard to market as "backstage pieces". It seems to me that the initial pack style (animals + scenery) was a way of beefing out the building tools for the game--i.e., themes and pieces. Now that that's done, I think it's going to be Animal Packs going forward.

It's honestly a bit fascinating to me how much everyone wants (and kind of anticipates?) aviaries and aquariums. That's not something I feel is necessary or even very useful in the game, really, but also it's just a lot to ask and I'm dubious about whether or not it fits Frontier's ethos and goals for this game. But I suppose we'll see! I could very well be wrong and there could be an aviary pack for December. That would definitely be the time to launch it, if they were ever going to, I think, so I agree with you there.

 

[FoxyDee]

Nooo, dont say that. Dont say that the PZ DLCs will end so soon as 2022. I dont want to face the reality today.

 

[Cocolori]

@PeppyPepp
Very interested to know why you suspect this kind of content is on the horizon! Personally I don't think backstage type scenery is likely, and definitely not as part of DLC pack: possibly as free updates, but I just don't see them breaking format to the Animal Packs just to return to animal + scenery packs, especially for something as hard to market as "backstage pieces". It seems to me that the initial pack style (animals + scenery) was a way of beefing out the building tools for the game--i.e., themes and pieces. Now that that's done, I think it's going to be Animal Packs going forward.

It's honestly a bit fascinating to me how much everyone wants (and kind of anticipates?) aviaries and aquariums. That's not something I feel is necessary or even very useful in the game, really, but also it's just a lot to ask and I'm dubious about whether or not it fits Frontier's ethos and goals for this game. But I suppose we'll see! I could very well be wrong and there could be an aviary pack for December. That would definitely be the time to launch it, if they were ever going to, I think, so I agree with you there.

Chante confirmed on the DLC thread that there will be future updates (not clear if DLC or updates) that include more scenery. So it's clear they are still working on scenery assets. No info on to what extent but if it is like Planet Coaster then when they introduced the ride packs (pretty equivalent to animal packs) they still had both the old forms of DLC and some that had a different focus (Ghostbusters DLC introduced both new gameplay and a mini career story driven pack which was very different). They also did continue to introduce new game mechanics in free updates (plus tools like the scenario editor) throughout the second year of PC support so I would be surprised if that wasn't the case for PZ as well. Whether it will take the form of aviaries or other options who knows but there was substantial work put into Coaster in terms of additional content and PZ can hope they get similar support for this game.

 

[NL_Mutso]

It's difficult to say.

JWE had more expensive/different content and had an expansion pack (RTJP was a big one for JWE)
PC had ride packs but not a DLC you could consider as expansion.

Reading a lot of comments in the past few days and my impression (correct me if I'm wrong) is that a mix of "4+1 and scenery/pieces" and "animal-only" DLC will work for a lot of people. I don't think we get 2 animal-only packs in a row (at least not this year) and building/building pieces are important to a lot of people.

 

[random goat]

It's honestly a bit fascinating to me how much everyone wants (and kind of anticipates?) aviaries and aquariums. That's not something I feel is necessary or even very useful in the game, really, but also it's just a lot to ask and I'm dubious about whether or not it fits Frontier's ethos and goals for this game. But I suppose we'll see! I could very well be wrong and there could be an aviary pack for December. That would definitely be the time to launch it, if they were ever going to, I think, so I agree with you there.

I find myself on the opposite side really. It's fascinating to me that someone could think that aviaries are not necessary in a zoo game. Aviaries are present in pretty much every zoo in the world!! I'm also not sure why it'd be a lot to ask having in mind they already created a sort of aviary-system in JWE (with looped animations and bigger animals ofc). PK, which is created by a smaller studio, also has some customizable aviaries in the game.
So I think it's just fair to expect they will come at some point. If they don't, it's indeed because of a business decision (very time consuming? saving them for a potential PZ2?) and not because of technical limitations.

 

[NL_Mutso]

I'm also not sure why it'd be a lot to ask having in mind they already created a sort of aviary-system in JWE

Yeah, same here. Another game of Frontier already did this - so people aren't asking for something that's completely out of their range.

I find myself on the opposite side really. It's fascinating to me that someone could think that aviaries are not necessary in a zoo game

A lot of people don't visit a RL zoo for the birds, maybe for the bigger ones. Maybe that has something to do with this?
Don't see myself staring at the birds in a zoo game but having aviaries (in some form) does gives options to give your zoo a realistic appearance or improve the overall look of your zoo.

 

[PeppyPepp]

@PeppyPepp
Very interested to know why you suspect this kind of content is on the horizon! Personally I don't think backstage type scenery is likely, and definitely not as part of DLC pack: possibly as free updates, but I just don't see them breaking format to the Animal Packs just to return to animal + scenery packs, especially for something as hard to market as "backstage pieces". It seems to me that the initial pack style (animals + scenery) was a way of beefing out the building tools for the game--i.e., themes and pieces. Now that that's done, I think it's going to be Animal Packs going forward.

It's honestly a bit fascinating to me how much everyone wants (and kind of anticipates?) aviaries and aquariums. That's not something I feel is necessary or even very useful in the game, really, but also it's just a lot to ask and I'm dubious about whether or not it fits Frontier's ethos and goals for this game. But I suppose we'll see! I could very well be wrong and there could be an aviary pack for December. That would definitely be the time to launch it, if they were ever going to, I think, so I agree with you there.

Like @Cocolori mentioned, they confirmed they aren't done with scenery so the backstage stuff might come along with a free update or we might get another 4+1 DLC with 250 scenery pieces. Whichever way they go, I'm confident we will have some basic zoo pieces by the end of the PZ development cycle.

 

[solacefruit]

@Cocolori @PeppyPepp Thank you for letting me know! I didn't realise that Chante had actually announced that more scenery is in the works, that's very exciting news.

@random goat
I don't actually mind either way if they include aviaries, and if they did, I'm sure I'd use them in some way. I definitely didn't mean to suggest it's a technical lack: I very much think it'd be a business decision if they're not included.

What I was trying to say was more that I don't really relate to what people are actually asking for re: aviaries, because it seems like a lot of people can't really agree on what should happen. I've seen people suggest that aviaries be a prebuilt item, similar to the exhibits (but larger), and I would personally find that delightful! I love that kind of thing at zoos, particularly walkthrough aviaries. But I've also seen a lot of people complain about the exhibits being too boring and too static etc., which makes me dubious about how those same people might react if that's what they're given, with birds having limited, looping animations. I definitely think Frontier could easily make this kind of aviary--I just don't know if it'd be welcomed by a lot of players asking for it, since people seem to really want to build aviaries themselves with netting etc.

Which is the other option: the far more complex one, where Frontier builds new habitat animal rigs for birds and programs flight animations etc., which seems to be what a lot of people are asking for (at least that I've seen/heard). It seems that people are especially keen for large birds, like eagles and condors. That would be a lot of work to do, I imagine, and while I'm sure Frontier's team could do it, I guess I wonder if keeping large flighted birds would be at odds with Frontier's goals for the game, similar to keeping cetaceans? Many large birds in captivity are there to be rehabilitated and released, or are kept because they're not able to be released, since the limited flight space able to be provided can present a problem. Obviously all sanctuaries have to compromise when it comes to providing care for large wildlife, so perhaps it's not an issue, but it was something I was wondering about.

It'll definitely be interesting to see what does eventually happen with this! Quite possibly they'll go with one or the other, or both. I for sure can't predict it, but I'm very curious to see.

 

[DarthQuell]

Ok, Frontier, I also have a question. What would happen if an animal y'all put into the game goes extinct in real life (I know it's not likely, but I'm just curious)? And also what would happen if certain species/subspecies in the game get renamed or become grouped differently?