Frontier - Please don't make your developers crunch

sonicmyst

S
I am not in favor of delaying the launch. But I agree that game dev companies should consider how taxing it is to developers during crunchtime.

That said, Frontier is known to continue support for their games even after launch, so whether or not all bugs are squished before release, it is up to our continuous communication with the dev team to report whatever bug we encounter. I do not expect a 100% bug-free game during launch but I believe and appreciate these wonderful dev team put to work during this crucial time in game development.
 

NL_Mutso

NL_Mutso
inspectorgadget1 said:
Spoilers - the initial release will have some bugs as with every PC game released ever
Click to expand...
Maybe I'm too much into conspiracy theories, But I think it's somewhat intentional with most games. :D

Makes it a bit harder to download the game illegally for the common gamers, you can't properly patch the game..
They always release a first patch really fast after release.
 

LN

LN
NL_Mutso said:
Maybe I'm too much into conspiracy theories, But I think it's somewhat intentional with most games. :D

Makes it a bit harder to download the game illegally for the common gamers, you can't properly patch the game..
They always release a first patch really fast after release.
Click to expand...

I think it's just because today games are downloaded, so developers get to update on the go and can launch the game, even when it might have some issues which they can fix the next day. They at least make sure the game is free of game breaking issues.

Back in the day, a game needed to be free of bugs etc. Because nobody wanted to recall all those cd's/dvd's. That would cost a ton of money.
 

Imagin

Imagin
No, this isn't the way it always was, games today are released with far more bugs, and more serious ones, then they used to. Yes, digital downloads enable this but whose best interest is it in to push unreasonable launch dates? Not the customer for sure, we may have become accustomed to getting buggy games but that doesn't make it a better experience for us. Certainly not the developers, I'm sure they would feel a lot better about producing a product that actually worked as they intended on launch day. Longer development costs more and although the gaming industry is now incredibly lucrative, there can never be enough money for the CEOs and Shareholders who use marketing to create the hype we are all a part of so that we will accept lower quality and higher prices. That's on us, and I understand it's hard to wait for something you want but we should be aware of the cost to the developers who are actually doing the work, often forced into brutal hours during crunch time. I am not saying Frontier does this. I'm here to ask them not to.

Source: https://youtu.be/V_f_qe1-75w


Source: https://youtu.be/sHBOWPLpXrs


Source: https://youtu.be/i8rTK7cAMv8
 

LN

LN
Why is this topic even a thing?

It's not like they are working in a clothing factory in Bangladesh. That is where the real work time and salary issues are.
If you want to worry about work time, worry about that instead.

Frontier is a UK based company, I'm sure this is all perfectly settled in the contracts of the employee's.
I wouldn't mind working some extra hours when you are working on such a fantastic game anyways.
 

Imagin

Imagin
Luuknoord said:
Why is this topic even a thing?

It's not like they are working in a clothing factory in Bangladesh. That is where the real work time and salary issues are.
If you want to worry about work time, worry about that instead.

Frontier is a UK based company, I'm sure this is all perfectly settled in the contracts of the employee's.
I wouldn't mind working some extra hours when you are working on such a fantastic game anyways.
Click to expand...

This topic is a thing because crunch time is a thing. These developers aren't paid more to do it because of the way their salaries are set up. Would you like to work 100 hours a week without any extra pay? If so, do let me know, I may have a use for you.
 

LN

LN
Imagin said:
This topic is a thing because crunch time is a thing. These developers aren't paid more to do it because of the way their salaries are set up. Would you like to work 100 hours a week without any extra pay? If so, do let me know, I may have a use for you.
Click to expand...

Do you have insight in their contracts and salaries, or are you just guessing away?

Do we even know if they work 100 hours? no. we do not.

This thread is not necessary IMO.
 
Last edited:

Imagin

Imagin
I'll say it one more time. I have no idea if Frontier forces crunch time on their developers. I created this thread to ask them not to because I know it happens in most large gaming companies now and I don't want to support it. Your responses here show that this thread is very necessary because apparently you, and many others, either don't understand the problem or don't want to know about the problem. I know all about the hype bubble of anticipation for a new game. I want to fully immerse myself in that too, but oddly I can't if I think that developers' time is abused to the extent that I know happens all the time in this industry.
 

Redoran

R
My father is a game developer so I am very familiar with the concept of crunch. It's a bit like pulling an all-nighter studying for a test: sometimes you have to do it, but it shouldn't be a requirement and it should definitely not be planned for the way some game companies plan for crunch.

I don't care if the game is delayed if that means the developers will get a humane work schedule. It might suck for me personally but I'd rather wait than have the developers be treated like just cogs in a machine rather than human beings. I don't know if Frontier uses crunch a lot, but I hope they don't, as I think it's a bad idea.
 

Imagin

Imagin
Redoran said:
My father is a game developer so I am very familiar with the concept of crunch. It's a bit like pulling an all-nighter studying for a test: sometimes you have to do it, but it shouldn't be a requirement and it should definitely not be planned for the way some game companies plan for crunch.

I don't care if the game is delayed if that means the developers will get a humane work schedule. It might suck for me personally but I'd rather wait than have the developers be treated like just cogs in a machine rather than human beings. I don't know if Frontier uses crunch a lot, but I hope they don't, as I think it's a bad idea.
Click to expand...

It sounds like your father has it better than most. If you read any of the articles or videos I posted about it you'd know that it's a heck of a lot more than like pulling an all-nighter studying for a test. It goes on for a lot longer than one night and it's not paid work. Game companies shouldn't get away with it and customers shouldn't support it.

I agree with you, I would also rather wait a bit longer for a game - especially one that I already know I'm going to love and play for years like Planet Zoo - than have the developers - the people who there would be no games without - abused with crunch time.
 

LN

LN
Imagin said:
I'll say it one more time. I have no idea if Frontier forces crunch time on their developers. I created this thread to ask them not to because I know it happens in most large gaming companies now and I don't want to support it. Your responses here show that this thread is very necessary because apparently you, and many others, either don't understand the problem or don't want to know about the problem. I know all about the hype bubble of anticipation for a new game. I want to fully immerse myself in that too, but oddly I can't if I think that developers' time is abused to the extent that I know happens all the time in this industry.
Click to expand...

Don't point at me like that, that is not nice to do.

And don't say I'm not familiar with the problem. You don't know that.

I'm sure it is all sealed of in contracts, but then. Deadlines is where overtime comes in play.

We implemented new software a few years ago in our company.
For which the company asked me to accompany that implementation. Which would mean extra hours.

I said yes, and then a few weeks later, the weekend before launch on monday, I slept a total of 9 hours in 2,5 days.
But I didn't complain. I got 200% paid over every worked hour that weekend.

Maybe there are always situations where overtime occurs. 100 hours sounds like an awful lot. I don't think that complies with European Laws.
 

Imagin

Imagin
Luuknoord said:
I'm sure it is all sealed of in contracts, but then. Deadlines is where overtime comes in play.
Click to expand...

You need to read up on what crunch time in the gaming industry really is because these developers almost never get extra pay for their extra work. It is just expected of them and it's brutal.
 

LN

LN
The Best Places To Work in the UK video games industry are:

Creative Assembly, Criterion, Double Eleven, Frontier, Ghost Games UK, Hutch Games, Lockwood Publishing, Lucid Games, Mojiworks, NaturalMotion, Playground Games, PlayStation London Studio, Rocksteady, Sega Hardlight, Space Ape Games, Studio Gobo, Unity, Ustwo and Wish Studios.

All of these companies scored over the threshold required to win one of our coveted Best Places badges.
Click to expand...

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/artic...-best-places-to-work-in-the-uk-games-industry

Frontier doesn't sound like an awful place to work to me.

Either way, I'm not that concerned about it like you are.

If there where signs that would prove your theory right, I might change my mind.

Maybe if it is the case, one of the devs or CM's can private message me to confirm your suspicions?
I guess they won't do that in this thread.
 
Last edited:

Imagin

Imagin
Great! Thank you for posting this! I see Frontier there, they didn't win any of the awards but they made the list and one of the criteria is The Health and Wellbeing Award (For companies who support their staff's physical and mental welfare) - so my conscious is clear enough to enjoy this game now. Hopefully, it won't be too buggy at launch, because I'd still rather wait longer and have a better polished game :)
 
  • Like (+1)
Reactions: LN

LN

LN
Imagin said:
Great! Thank you for posting this! I see Frontier there, they didn't win any of the awards but they made the list and one of the criteria is The Health and Wellbeing Award (For companies who support their staff's physical and mental welfare) - so my conscious is clear enough to enjoy this game now. Hopefully, it won't be too buggy at launch, because I'd still rather wait longer and have a better polished game :)
Click to expand...

I'm glad I could take away your concerns.

Don't get me wrong. I'm absolutely sure there are plenty of companies, where this happens and no one will speak about that in public.

I just don't have that feeling with Frontier.
 

Imagin

Imagin
Promethien said:
Your conscious is clear? So you were accusing them of something awful with zero evidence. Hey have you stopped beating your kids yet?
Click to expand...

I honestly didn't know, as I said several times, whether or not Frontier used crunch time or not. I am a creative person myself and had been reading about this crunch issue and was horrified at how bad it is and how widespread the problem is. I honestly don't think I could have enjoyed the game if I knew that was going on at Frontier. I just wanted to bring some awareness to the community and let Frontier know about my concerns. I didn't at any point accuse Frontier of anything.
 

bamber

B
Been missed in the earlier discussions but Frontier use a COBRA engine - well developed over a number of major games. in those games they have shown themselves to be very good at fixing issues in VERY well run BETAs They only test what needs testing. They are also very good to not "blowing in the wind" to every request and know how THEY want the game put together

They have shown they can react very quickly in BETA and in games - they also can obviously modify games on line if need be

Planet zoo is following similar development to elite, JWF, PC etc all on time all good games and in the logs Im seeing a lot of the same people - if the Crunch was bad in elite the same people wouldn't be working on zoo if crunch want to onerous in Elite due to COBRA they are using the same engine so assumption is it wont be too bad in Zoo
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom