Frontier. Please make a PVE mode to this game.

[Dave1235]

I'd settle for a PvP-discouraged game mode, something like the following (which would not involve changing the damage model per se):

1) PvP damage / destruction fully reimbursed to the target (including all ship contents that would normally be lost on destruction), i.e. no financial penalty to being attacked / destroyed by another player;
2) PvP attackers kicked to Open on next instance change after the attack took place - length of suspension from Open-PvE dependent on previous transgressions; account based;
3) Heavy Pilots' Federation punitive division response to PvP attacker (near instant) - attacker either destroyed or changes instance - see 2);
4) Players cannot interdict players; if a player interdiction is attempted, interdictor drops to normal space (i.e. changes instance, goto 2)), interdictee sees "Interdiction Won";
5) Players cannot follow player wakes of any kind (unless in a wing);
6) Players cannot use hatch breakers on players - attempt to do so results in 2) and 3).

Change "kicked to open" to kicked to shadow ban server and I would be more inclined to support, being kicked to open for mode invasions is hardly a punishment, now no pew pew for a few months should help prevent repeat occurrences

 

[Mobius]

Mobius is at max capacity now, no new blood can join the group and play PVE.

we have more than one group, yes the first Mobius group is at capacity but our second group MOBIUS PVE is now taking over and currently stands at over 13,500 members.
we also have a third account on standby.

 

[thirstyfish]

we have more than one group, yes the first Mobius group is at capacity but our second group MOBIUS PVE is now taking over and currently stands at over 13,500 members.
we also have a third account on standby.

That is wonderful and all, but wouldn't you agree that it would be truly awesome if 3 player groups weren't necessary? I love and applaud what you have done, member of one of the mobius groups myself. But I don't think its fair to you to be responsible for providing a PvE experience to tens of thousands of players. Its time for Fdev to do their part.

 

[Mengy]

That is wonderful and all, but wouldn't you agree that it would be truly awesome if 3 player groups weren't necessary? I love and applaud what you have done, member of one of the mobius groups myself. But I don't think its fair to you to be responsible for providing a PvE experience to tens of thousands of players. Its time for Fdev to do their part.

Agreed 1000%.

 

[lokvette]

Indeed - ask they will, in the hope that Frontier will change one of the fundamental aspects of the single/multi-player game experience design.

Here I let the below answer why so many ask, it might be in vain, but if you dont ask you wont get, and something isn't working right if one player has to be responsible or least offer the service to so many players.

we have more than one group, yes the first Mobius group is at capacity but our second group MOBIUS PVE is now taking over and currently stands at over 13,500 members.
we also have a third account on standby.

As for the OP.

Tbh, I dont see it happening or least I dont see it happening any time soon. I'm happy in the first Mobius and solo, I even pop into open if i'm out on the edge of the bubble or in the black.

 

[Dave1235]

Your choice to stream in Open - them's the breaks when one advertises one's location.

.... also, "killed fair and square" implies that the attacker wasn't a griefer as does your reaction to the attack.

Frontier don't offer player statistics for their game - and players do not require to use Steam to launch the game, indeed XB1 players cannot....

I believe an fd employee, one of the forum team iirc stated a few months back that from the fd stats they were looking at the game is certainly not dieing, obviously no numbers were quoted but they told the phrophets of doom they were wrong, I beleve steam was also being quoted to "prove" ed is dieing then too

Will look at the wall of info later and see if I can find it

 

[Mobius]

That is wonderful and all, but wouldn't you agree that it would be truly awesome if 3 player groups weren't necessary? I love and applaud what you have done, member of one of the mobius groups myself. But I don't think its fair to you to be responsible for providing a PvE experience to tens of thousands of players. Its time for Fdev to do their part.

I agree, frontier has missed out on something here. there are plenty of private groups that don't play in open simply because of the toxic players out there that think everyone should play their way. our in game community has over 33,000 members and only frontier can give exact numbers as to how many play in our groups.

Frontier need to see that the game is about the single pilot and how they interact with the AI and other players, by making a free for all that they call open they have opened themselves up to players intent on spoiling other players play choice.

we have a toxic minority that reply to these posts with derogatory comments about how players who choose to play Elite their own way are considered the toxic ones because we choose to play elite in our own style. private groups and solo players make up a very large statistic and frontier need to stop trying to pretend that these players don't exist and implement some sort of pve mode.

the way I see it being done is for frontier to give players an extra commander slot and that the players commander is locked into open/solo or private, players are then all seen and not hidden in private/solo/open but a visible icon is shown stating that these players cannot be interacted with. so private cant interact with solo or open and the same for open cant interact with the others but everyone can see a more populated galaxy.

 

[kinglemo2000]

The problem is that the issue is much more than just damage inflicting between players:



Kill stealing means conflict zone/RES/CNB, and we don't even know how is it going to work with powerplay with two opposing factions (shoot only NPC ships?). Right now if you're not in a wing, the kill goes to someone random that landed the last hit (from what I understand, but I'm certain it only goes to a single person). The worse thing is that devs went on record and stated that they want kill stealing to be a thing. You'd start resenting other players rather than wanting them to be there.

Cargo ramming/mineral ramming. This is self explanatory.

Advanced station griefing would be something like pinning down a ship to get docking infraction for being in inappropriate places, which will make the station open fire. Unless we throw the collision model out for player on player, which I don't even know how will that work or if the engine allows it even and if it's an immersion concession FD is willing to make.

Pad blocking will become a real issue and constant re-instancing means friends might have to log off and on just to get into an empty station to get serviced.

These are just things off the top of my head, and I haven't gone into details about mission target conflicts (exploding generators/mission cargo being scooped by someone else/mission target gets exploded by someone else)

Edit:

And these aren't even edge cases.

I play in both open and Mobius plus a couple of other private groups and have to say that you get none of these issues in Mobius as the player's respect the rules apart from the couple of times Salt Dependent Children got in and then got banned. Prehaps a openPvE mode could have volunteer mods from the player base to help police it

- - - Updated - - -

And the very idea that people who play in this mode want to be monitored to keep them "safe" from the baddies makes me want to search for my roll of antacid.

Good for you keep taking the pills just because someone wants to play a game they have paid for thier way witout PvP in their own officially supported mode there is no need to get salty about it it doesn't effect you most of the players that would use the mode probably already play in private groups so you can still play your game in open your way so there is no problem

 

[Sidey]

I'd like to suggest a thought experiment. (Or a solution?)

Remove all names from ships seen in space. Police or fed ships can still identify as those, but every other ship should just be a registration, and ship type. The only way to identify the pilot name would be to message the pilot and get a response. When the pilot responds, then you would see their name. Essentially, make a fellow player completely indistinguishable from an NPC. NPC's would also reply to messages sometimes, or other times would just ignore them too.

PvE and PvP through choice are effectively removed. You'd just come across other ships, some piloted and equipped well. Other's not so much.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I'd like to suggest a thought experiment. (Or a solution?)

Remove all names from ships seen in space. Police or fed ships can still identify as those, but every other ship should just be a registration, and ship type. The only way to identify the pilot name would be to message the pilot and get a response. When the pilot responds, then you would see their name. Essentially, make a fellow player completely indistinguishable from an NPC. NPC's would also reply to messages sometimes, or other times would just ignore them too.

PvE and PvP through choice are effectively removed. You'd just come across other ships, some piloted and equipped well. Other's not so much.

Players can tell whether there are other players in their instance simply by monitoring network traffic (CTRL-B in-game) and/or monitoring connections to the ED process and spotting those that are not servers.

 

[Roybe]

That is wonderful and all, but wouldn't you agree that it would be truly awesome if 3 player groups weren't necessary? I love and applaud what you have done, member of one of the mobius groups myself. But I don't think its fair to you to be responsible for providing a PvE experience to tens of thousands of players. Its time for Fdev to do their part.

Have some rep!

- - - Updated - - -

Players can tell whether there are other players in their instance simply by monitoring network traffic (CTRL-B in-game) and/or monitoring connections to the ED process and spotting those that are not servers.

...and we come back to the idea that PvP is allowed...but only as a sideshow (the games design precludes anything else). The best use of it in the past was to create outrage....to get in game responses. Now the only outrage that can be created is forum PVP. As most folks have not figured out the best way to fix an outrageous act is to out PVE the PVP players....or, just ignore the outrageous action altogether.

 

[caiOHawk]

It already exist, just request to join the Private Group Mobius PVE (America) or Mobius (Europe). In less than 24 hours your request will be accept and everyone on it just want to play with other CMDRs but no PVP.

 

[Roybe]

It already exist, just request to join the Private Group Mobius PVE (America) or Mobius (Europe). In less than 24 hours your request will be accept and everyone on it just want to play with other CMDRs but no PVP.

The problem with that is that A) Mobius is not a PVE 'mode'....it is a private group that people CAN PVP in, but those in the group have an agreement NOT to....there have been bad faith actors that have joined the group for a fish in the barrel shoot out....so there is no guarantee that unwanted PVP will not occur. B) No company should desire that 20k+ consumers of their product should have their enjoyment of the game be provided by a single player.....basically, FDev's attitude on this has been poor for a corporate stakeholder...they are ignoring the desire of the majority of their customers....basically, compromising the quality of their game at the expense of overall satisfaction of the players that desire a 'public co-operative experience'.

 

[milligna]

Doesn't seem like much of a problem and I don't feel ignored. Still, it's nice to claim you speak for the majority. Must make a point to do that some time.

 

[Roybe]

Doesn't seem like much of a problem and I don't feel ignored. Still, it's nice to claim you speak for the majority. Must make a point to do that some time.

Fdevs claim...not mine. Not speaking for the majority, either....just making the statement that Mobius is a real problem for any company that is trying to make their customers happy....it's a compromise with them...not a real solution.

 

[Nemayn]

And the very idea that people who play in this mode want to be monitored to keep them "safe" from the baddies makes me want to search for my roll of antacid.

So what you are really saying is that the mode will still need to be monitored because pvp players wont respect pve mode.

 

[Sidey]

Maybe I didnt make my point clear. I was trying to get people to think about the psychology of the situation.

If a PvEr gets shot down whether by NPC or player the consequences are identical. In the case of the NPC people may be annoyed at the games difficulty level but for the most part they are ok with the fact that they got destroyed. They get their insurance, rebuy their ship and continue. Occassionally you come across the player who has flown without insurance and was shot down in solo by an NPC and gets upset, but for the most part PvErs don't end up furious if they are shot down by an NPC.

However, if exactly the same scenario plays out, but instead of being shot down by an NPC the PvEr is shot down by another player, then the response and the feeling is very different. Many players view it as a personal attack as opposed to an ingame occurance. Its almost as if they perceive it to be a situation whereby you are playing your game and someone comes along and deliberately screws you over for fun (infact this point of view is incredibly common if you read even just this thread). It's not treated as part of the game, rather it is treated as someone using the game to harass or antagonise.

Amusingly, the NPCs in this game act far more psychotically than the players. TBH you are far far far more likely to run into an NPC who will attack you for the lulz then another player. However the simple fact that one is a player and the other is not, is all that is required for emotions to fly around crazy as they do whenever this topic comes up.

So it comes down to this. If you get shot down whether by an NPC or player the consequences are identical. That means that the only reason people get upset about Pking compared to simply getting blown up in a res site is psychological. If your ship gets destroyed and you were in the middle of doing something, then that is annoying, granted. In all situations its annoying. I think what makes it "worse" if its a player is the thought that not only did this event annoy you, but someone gained some kind of enjoyment from it, and its that action, the idea that someone gained enjoyment from something that annoyed you which I think is one of the major factors behind the emotion around this topic.

So what conclusion can we gain from this?
That humans are very selfish.
That only our own enjoyment matters.

Or maybe...
Ignorance is bliss.
What you dont know cant hurt you.

Hence why I proposed the idea of removing any way of identifying whether a ship is an AI or a player. How would people react then when they were destroyed? The cynic in me says that everyone would simply blame other players for everything and this would simply turn into a ghost hunt. I think current culture encourages victimhood and looking for others to blame so thats the way i'd see this going. Either way I reckon it would be an interesting experiment.

 

[jasonbarron]

So what you are really saying is that the mode will still need to be monitored because pvp players wont respect pve mode.

Friend, it's like 5:00 somewhere if you gets my drift (here for sure) and I no longer have a dang clue what thread this even is

*clinkedy-clink goes my gin and tonic*

 

[Roybe]

Hence why I proposed the idea of removing any way of identifying whether a ship is an AI or a player. How would people react then when they were destroyed? The cynic in me says that everyone would simply blame other players for everything and this would simply turn into a ghost hunt. I think current culture encourages victimhood and looking for others to blame so thats the way i'd see this going. Either way I reckon it would be an interesting experiment.

First, PC's will always be distinguishable from NPC's. The players are 'better' than the NPC's in anything an NPC can do.

Second, this bird tried to fly as the DDF was created. FDev did not take the advice as being in line with their design. They won't take it in line with the design now. Just like they aren't going to change other things, including the peer to peer networking, the various platforms (or the modes) being able to play together by moving the BGS ....or making PVP more than a side line activity.

 

[Nemayn]

Friend, it's like 5:00 somewhere if you gets my drift (here for sure) and I no longer have a dang clue what thread this even is

*clinkedy-clink goes my gin and tonic*

I will spell it out then, the reason that a pve mode would need fd baby sitters is because pvp players wouldn't respect it and would find ways to grief (*note this doesnt mean all pvp players)

Or in other words the problem is not pve players wanting a non pvp mode but that a subset of pvp'ers being cockwombles regardless