Not my problem that you can't read.
Frontier. Please make a PVE mode to this game.
- Thread starter CMDR Generic EventHandler
- Start date
Not my problem that you can't read.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
If, in a game mode designed to discourage PvP, the net result of being destroyed by a player was absolutely nothing (i.e. the destroyed player was fully reimbursed, including cargo, data, etc.), I doubt that the salt miners would be as successful in their harvesting.
Not to antagonize you. But exploration/long range mission will disagree.
indeed we all know that an unautomated / aka enforced in game ruleset, would be way too problematic and force too much workload onto fdev support staff... which is why I think that there would need to be an automated system in place along the lines of Robert Maynards pilots license proposal for an open PVE mode... certain actions - such as interdiction, firing on another player etc can be circumvented with in game mechanics that also remove the person from the mode temporarily and repeat offenders eventually automatically permanently banned from the mode...
If they went for the disabled damage model... then there would need to be a lot more discussion on how that would work, for all possibly situations so that a rule system could be developed for it... and no matter what happens, it will all take development time to implement, test and tweak...
I am not talking about destroying people, and FD has massive problems manually restoring data/cargo/missions. Will never, ever happen automatically, and FD will never invest the manpower to manually 'compensate' people.
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I am not talking about destroying people, and FD has massive problems manually restoring data/cargo/missions. Will never, ever happen automatically, and FD will never invest the manpower to manually 'compensate' people.
Dear pup trust me I can read extremely well. This is an English speaking forum so you'll need to try and be understood in that language. I'm not being rude to you - have a go at it yourself.
Here, let me help:
CL- Combat logging
FD- Frontier development
C&P- Crime and punishment
Boarding a plane atm, will come back later in case there's further confusion.
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Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Given that the game "knows" what state our ship is in at every instance change and that, to rebuy, items must be removed from that state for the "bare" rebuy that we go through, I doubt that keeping the ship state intact is any challenge.
.... and I was referring to a PvP-discouraged alternative to an Open-PvE mode - much like a codified equivalent of the largest Private Group. Which would avoid Frontier having to attempt to remove any way for players to damage other players - simply issue suspensions from the mode when players do damage / destroy other players.
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I think he means all types of data, and cargo etc, including exploration data and long rang emission cargo etc... so if there was no ill effect on the 'victim' but the antagonist was removed from the mode and so forth...
And considering none of the senior staff has been very enthusiastic at all about PvE modes, and they are very excited about stuff like space legs and atmo landing, what do you think they prefer to do? And what do you think the shareholders want FD to do? Work on major features the gaming community at large expects from ED, SC and such? Or do you think they want FD to spend massive resources on hand holding a small percentage of players who wish the basic premise of the ED universe was different?
You can all make a million polls, but there simply won't be a carebear paradise.
Here's my take (for the n-th time) on this whole ordeal.
Implementing a working C&P system would be awesome, BUT this has to be done right and it's a delicate thing as well. I'd wager the amount of work for a decent system is substantial (and a quick-hack system based on some magical number representing a players "karma" probably won't cut it). There's a bit of a problem, however. No matter how good a C&P system is, a dedicated player will always be able to wreck someone's day. Sure, they may be punished for it, but the kind of player we're talking about here doesn't care about the punishment - they are there solely to cause grief to others. So while ganking and all the nasty stuff might happen less often, it'll still happen (or someone will find a way to be as annoying as possible after a save-clear with a Freewinder, making them free from any punishment whatsoever).
A PvE mode sounds like it requires far less work than the C&P mentioned above (disable player-to-player weapon and collision damage). While there's still potential for griefers (there's ALWAYS potential for those people), it's far more difficult to pull off and the effects are lessened. Chances are any loopholes found by griefers can be easily fixed / should be fixed, because most of the time it'll be due to bugs / exploits anyway.
Now, is there a need for a PvE mode? The ED universe is pretty damn large, so one might be inclined to answer "no". But judging by the fact that the private group Mobius created is choked, and the fact that it relies heavily on one person doing all the administration on such a massive scale, I'd say it IS needed. An argument could be made that with a proper C&P system people wouldn't need to play in Mobius to begin with... but this is only partially true. First, as I wrote above, even a working C&P won't deter gankers from their true goal of ganking. And secondly - the Mobius group already exists, and already functions (with all the nasty administrative overhead, yes, but it's there). Why would anyone interested purely in PvE play in a C&P-enabled Open where they are still at risk (smaller, but non-zero) when they can play in Mobius (still a non-zero risk factor, but probably safer than C&P-open)? On the other hand, as soon as a PvE mode is launched there won't be any reason to stay in Mobius (again, risk assessment - PvE mode is less risky than Mobius).
In any case - I do need to stress the administrative burden placed on Mobius. It's a bit insane and should never be required. This alone should be a big enough signal that something is needed. If not a full-fledged PvE mode, then better group management tools (web access, sub-administrators / multiple owners, etc). However, even with better group-management tools the sole fact that this administrative burden is placed on the players is a mind-boggling.
Implementing a working C&P system would be awesome, BUT this has to be done right and it's a delicate thing as well. I'd wager the amount of work for a decent system is substantial (and a quick-hack system based on some magical number representing a players "karma" probably won't cut it). There's a bit of a problem, however. No matter how good a C&P system is, a dedicated player will always be able to wreck someone's day. Sure, they may be punished for it, but the kind of player we're talking about here doesn't care about the punishment - they are there solely to cause grief to others. So while ganking and all the nasty stuff might happen less often, it'll still happen (or someone will find a way to be as annoying as possible after a save-clear with a Freewinder, making them free from any punishment whatsoever).
A PvE mode sounds like it requires far less work than the C&P mentioned above (disable player-to-player weapon and collision damage). While there's still potential for griefers (there's ALWAYS potential for those people), it's far more difficult to pull off and the effects are lessened. Chances are any loopholes found by griefers can be easily fixed / should be fixed, because most of the time it'll be due to bugs / exploits anyway.
Now, is there a need for a PvE mode? The ED universe is pretty damn large, so one might be inclined to answer "no". But judging by the fact that the private group Mobius created is choked, and the fact that it relies heavily on one person doing all the administration on such a massive scale, I'd say it IS needed. An argument could be made that with a proper C&P system people wouldn't need to play in Mobius to begin with... but this is only partially true. First, as I wrote above, even a working C&P won't deter gankers from their true goal of ganking. And secondly - the Mobius group already exists, and already functions (with all the nasty administrative overhead, yes, but it's there). Why would anyone interested purely in PvE play in a C&P-enabled Open where they are still at risk (smaller, but non-zero) when they can play in Mobius (still a non-zero risk factor, but probably safer than C&P-open)? On the other hand, as soon as a PvE mode is launched there won't be any reason to stay in Mobius (again, risk assessment - PvE mode is less risky than Mobius).
In any case - I do need to stress the administrative burden placed on Mobius. It's a bit insane and should never be required. This alone should be a big enough signal that something is needed. If not a full-fledged PvE mode, then better group management tools (web access, sub-administrators / multiple owners, etc). However, even with better group-management tools the sole fact that this administrative burden is placed on the players is a mind-boggling.
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It never does though, does it.
When was the last time you ever saw a thread, started by a group of PvE'ers, who chased off or defeated a group of rabid-PvP'ers using 'brute PvP'?
The only threads I seem to see when it comes to 'brute PvP' are created by rabid-PvP'ers against their fellow rabid-PvP'ers - usually a predictable and boring video where one PvP'er orbits and shoots another PvP'er ship until one ship wins the game of orbit-and-shoot-each-other.
Or it's when additional salt-mining is being sought by some noisy rabid-PvP group who spent their time 'the other night' at some player choke-point.
I've yet to see this mystical thread where the 'Carebear Consortium' decided enough was enough! and chased away the 'Smelly Daggit Chumps'.
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
I respect Mobius for what he did, but can we stop pretending the sky is going to fall if Mobius quits? I am more than confident that someone will step up to take over, like guilds in other MMOs.
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Exactly this^^^^
FD will never babysit any mode. Only the worst of the worst incidents that are beyond any reasonable doubt will be banned.
Automated restrictions will be the biggest gift to griefers ever. They want even run the risk of getting shot at when they bump people and they will probably try to provoke situations where they can report people.
*sigh*
Because I'm not an idiot I knew that. You demean yourself and reveal yourself when it gets like this. Everybody knows this stuff, you insult us all.
"than for PVE mode"? what do you think that means?
I'm not being rude Gluttony but it's obvious English isn't your first language. There are other options than belittling people when they ask for clarification when you've been unclear
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Because I'm not an idiot I knew that. You demean yourself and reveal yourself when it gets like this. Everybody knows this stuff, you insult us all.
"than for PVE mode"? what do you think that means?
I'm not being rude Gluttony but it's obvious English isn't your first language. There are other options than belittling people when they ask for clarification when you've been unclear
That is where a general C&P comes into play for the non- PvP players
But they shouldn't have too. Something of this size and scale shouldn't be run as a private group once, let alone three times now.
Ah, so in a tough fight against AI all I have to is hit you once and you'll be compensated if AI kills you? Or is there a threshold? Or will compensation scale linearly? And ramming damage, does it count as grieving? Or can it be an accident? If so, when?
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Why? Is there something in the UELA that says "if a small percentage wants a mode where only sideys are allowed we'll make a separate mode for it?" No? Then you should take care of your own groups.
Interesting pattern though. "I don't want to defend myself, FD please help!"
"You can make a PG"
"I don't wanna do that myself, please help!"