Frontier. Please make a PVE mode to this game.
- Thread starter CMDR Generic EventHandler
- Start date
Relax, my friend, I do get your point
I'm sure it will come as no surprise that I have a different way of looking at things then you, but for the purposes of this particular exchange I'm just trying to get your goat. Good video.
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Out of curiosity: is logic a thing you possess?
1) You claim you can never do a whole list of things because you'll get griefed.
2) I do most of that list of things a load of times.
3) I dont get griefed.
4) Conclusion: you're talking out of your rear.
If you want to make reasonably points I'll have no problem agreeing with them. But this blanket nonsense I responded to is factually false. So just say "yeah, I exagerated incredibly much, here is what I really mean." and get on with it. Or start talking about something else if you think it confuses people.
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Relax, my friend, I do get your point
Oh you!
Anyway - total truth... I used to be in Mobius! The original group before it was split up in fact.
I never really played in it - maybe 3 times total, and I hardly met anyone whilst doing so, so I didn't see the point in continuing to be in it, and left the group ages ago. In fact I realised I was still in their Facebook group earlier today, and left that too.
In fact, I'm almost at the point of leaving the whole game. It'll just take the wrong kind of nudge from FDEV to push me over the edge - I'm waiting to see the next horribly eccentric or disappointing move from them. Not that it's important for little old me to still be playing or liking the game, anyways, so no biggie there.
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"It didn't happen to me, so it hasn't happened to anyone else."
Awesome logic right there matey.
*plonk*
Oh you!
Anyway - total truth... I used to be in Mobius! The original group before it was split up in fact.
I never really played in it - maybe 3 times total, and I hardly met anyone whilst doing so, so I didn't see the point in continuing to be in it, and left the group ages ago. In fact I realised I was still in their Facebook group earlier today, and left that too.
In fact, I'm almost at the point of leaving the whole game. It'll just take the wrong kind of nudge from FDEV to push me over the edge - I'm waiting to see the next horribly eccentric or disappointing move from them. Not that it's important for little old me to still be playing or liking the game, anyways, so no biggie there.
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"It didn't happen to me, so it hasn't happened to anyone else."
Awesome logic right there matey.
*plonk*
Sounds like you do need a break, CMDR. Or to find a new sense of purpose. I'm nowhere near done with ED, but as I said in another thread I'm very excited about the next X game that we're supposed to be getting news on this year, a proper successor to XTC.
Sorry I messed with you. Feel free to wing with me anytime and I'll help you find that sense of purpose by going to CG's and hunting gankers and griefers
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Really? So if something happened to someone somewhere, you think its raional to say "definitely dont do that, its 100% guaranteed to be unsafe!" Its about prevalence. 'Ganking' happens. In Mobius very rarely. In Open rarely. Neither is a good reason to recommend against it in such extreme terms. I encountered murderers very, very rarely in over 1700 hours. Thats not "It didnt happen to me that one time so it is safe.", it means "it really, really doesnt happen that often.".
"Dont go to that neighbourhood, you'll get robbed and killed for sure!"
"Well, I've lived there for years and thats just ignorant."
"Well, I've got a video!"
Take it easy, mate.
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I don't usually reply at 2am, but since I just got home from work, stuck in a near empty office head in an excruciating spreadsheet.. I needed to visit my favourite forum for some pre-bed zone out.
This kind of nonsense is pretty much why an open PvE mode will bring new life to ED by encouraging players far and wide to unite in a nonsense free open play mode.
Just as I was about to poke at the commander in question, I happened to stumble on this:
<remove naming and shaming>
Oh now I can go to sleep amused.. Who would want to kill an awesome fuel rat... I'm sure they only exist to help people? Of all the exploits this commander takes part in, he then labels someone a 'cheater'... lol indeed I can go to bed amused...
Was a good video Genar. Wish you could be repped further for demoing this tardy behaviour!
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In cases like this I support combat logging 100%. Frack me! I might bookmark that video for future reference when somebody asks me to prove that Elite is full of scum.
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Perfect example of why you should avoid open mode. Thanks for posting Vorxian.
As a Fuel Rat myself I tend to fly Solo to the system where a call was placed. I'm wondering how / when the scenario in the video took place. Here are some possibilities:
- it happened outside of the usual refuelling run, i.e. the gank-squad in question simply found someone who is a Fuel Rat somewhere in Open by random (outside of any refuelling operation) <- this is possible, but unlikely
- they had one of their own pose as a client in need of help and send out for a Fuel Rat <- far more likely, and is really despicable
- they listened in on the Fuel Rat IRC channel where calls for help are placed, and flew to a system where a client was stranded <- also very likely, just as despicable as the option above
Outside of the first possibility listed (where the event took place outside of a refuelling run, just some people "meeting" in Open), the latter two show what kind of mentality some players have and that there are no "limits" to how low they'll stoop. If the scenario took place during a refuelling operation, then it also shows that there are currently no sensible mechanics in-game to prevent this sort of thing. Fuel Rats cannot have their own PG, because then the owner would need to be online 24/7 to invite clients, while creating ad-hoc PGs would be an extreme hassle (because more often than not multiple Fuel Rats are sent to help out a single client in case of instancing issues or other problems).
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Just when I thought they couldn't get any lower.
I'm sure open is full of really nice people, but then you have Dbags like this, but you know FD want more people to play in open..well sort open out then and maybe they will.
Just to clarify, I'm talking about the huge Ahat that killed the fuel rat.
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Following the only argument in the thread. This game needs way more mode :
Open - no trading
Open - no Exploration
Open - no Combat
Open - no armed NPC
Open - no RNGneers
Open - no Interdiction
Open - no jump range limit
Open - no FDL
[...]
A game mode for every game mechanic a player refuse to face.
Open - no trading
Open - no Exploration
Open - no Combat
Open - no armed NPC
Open - no RNGneers
Open - no Interdiction
Open - no jump range limit
Open - no FDL
[...]
A game mode for every game mechanic a player refuse to face.
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![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
"Dont go to that neighbourhood, you'll get robbed and killed for sure!"
"Well, I've lived there for years and thats just ignorant."
"Well, I've got a video!"
Take it easy, mate.
I know it does not take much but I am confused. you say it does not happen to you, or at least only incredibly rarely.
OK i get that and i believe you.
but you call genar out on it suggesting he does not know what he is on about, and from what i can tell, insinuates he is lying so he posts a video he made where it absolutely did happen to him, and he claims he made the vid because he himself had been witnessing it happening a lot - I woudl think one does not make that video off the cuff without ever experiencing it before hand.
therefore i think it is fair to conclude you are both right on your own personal experiences... that due to the instancing gods, or both of your location in the real world you both have had different experiences in the game.......
ie its ok for you to say you think open is fine as it is, and there isnt a problem, AND it is ok for someone else to say, actually there is a problem, without having to get personal and nasty.
I lived on the outskirts of moss side for a year (back in the 90s, i believe its cleaned up a lot now). in that time I was burgled as was at least 4 of my neighbours..... this was in ONE academic year at uni.
Perhaps the other 20 houses on the streets occupants would say the street was fine, no problem at all.... however the 5 or more of us who were robbed and had to wait for over an hr for the police to finally turn up (that is how long i waited, no idea of the wait time for the other victims) would probably say it is a crap neighbourhood. At the time I would not have appreciated someone calling me a liar that crime was unaceptable in that street just because they were ok.
now back then Moss side did have a reputation, so i guess you could argue it was the "Anarchy" area of Manchester, so from a games point of view this may be acceptable.
but right now, at any CG, every system appears to be anarchy, regardless of if high or low security, or regardless of if the area is meant to be covered by the military etc.
Back in the day, some decided that Lave and Leesti would be a griefers paradise.......... these were both hi sec systems, and Lave is central to many core Elite players, which is why the system was picked i am sure, to make the heart of the Elite systems a toxic area...
if players want to play at being psychos, they should be picking out of the way systems to do it... scratch that.. the games security should be FORCING them to only be able to do it in out of the way systems.
IF FD ever manage that then maybe i will stop complaining about getting the PvE mode we expected in the kickstarter.
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I can prove there's a relatively large number of people interested in a PvE mode - just look at how big Mobius has become. If you can prove that people are interested in any of the modes you listed, then you'd have a point.
But I know you made that list to mock the idea, so... no. There's no interest in the modes you described. There IS an interest in a PvE mode. Rather thank mockery, try using an actual argument why the idea is a bad one.
I am mocking the argument for the Open PVE request. Not the idea even if it s completely against the actual game design.
Like you said, a large number of players are interest in a proper crime/punishment/reward.
90k out of over a million is not a relatively large number, particularly as that is the membership not the active player Base.
In that case, the oft-stated fear that open PvE might drain open PvP of players must be unfounded.
I understand from both sides; I can lend empathy that players living in OPEN currently may feel that the addition of an OPEN PvE mode may somehow dilute the players in OPEN. I'm always an optimist and feel that the blight in open right now are combat loggers, there's been heat on this subject recently, and is a very fair point. However, i cannot help but think that players that would CL in OPEN would use OPEN PvE instead, and bring the problem away from negatively impacting players hunting said players. I hope and like to think that currently players using OPEN are likely to stay there regardless of another alternative. All that OPEN PvE will do is be able to soak up the rest of the playerbase, yank forth those that inhabit Mobius, encourage some that aren't in the 'club' to leave solo to finally have a reason and incentive to play with others. A PvE server will simply allow non combat oriented players a single place to play this galaxy against a backdrop of FDEV balanced content. Personally feel that the likely audience of OPEN PvE will be everyone but those that prefer the unknown in the current OPEN galaxy. Still think it's a good all round chance for FDEV to unite a very fragmented community. (there's that word again! 'fragmented'..)!
No one really knows what will happen. FDEV may feel that ED has evolved to the point that it's a valid possibility. In my own opinion I struggle to think of a reason why it shouldn't be.... ok there is one small consideration to muse over... in that if the PvE server was indeed only PvE, and no human damage was possible against another human ship.. what would happen in a War Zone? if players pledge to opposing forces.. I'm guessing as per Mobius, that at this point PvP would be likely. Up for debate! Would War Zones constitute a revoke of the non PvE rule? OR, will it still be PvE and one has to ignore human opposition.
Other than that minor query... PvE OPEN is a great plan
From my personal perspective, I think the no damage model, although making it a pure PVE mode, is not the only solution to the problem, not the only way to implement a PVE mode... If they allowed the different sides in a CZ to be pvp then that would give griefing players a possible way to cause trouble in a 'legitimate' way for PVE players... so it would need to be NON PVP as such... Kill stealing could still happen no doubt, but that can (and does) happen anyway and is not worth the energy to try to implement a fix for IMHO...
As someone else mentioned, the whole friend / foe firing system already in the game could be used... I would think that you SHOULD still be able to fire on players, simply because of the healing lasers mechanic which would be used to allow players to heal each other while fighting NPC's for example...
Another possible option is the invulnerable shield concept when being fired on from another player, but only if a shield is fitted... Along with the zero mass when hitting an enemy ship could help reduce the likelyhood of ramming griefing...
Along with the PF Pilots Licence and the idea that was suggested if you interdict a player, you are kicked to a different mode, or my personal favourite and simplest to implement, present the interdictor with a match making error and the interdictee with a win on the interdicion... I will wait to hear the screams of Y U HAZ 2 BRAIK MI IMMERSHUN!!! So I can answer with why do you need to interdict a player in a PVE only mode....
Fair enough. The point I am trying to make is best examplified by this:
This is just 100% not factual. Its either posted due to total ignorance or its just intentional lying. I've finished engineering my sidey, eagle, viper mk3 and cobra mk3 in Open. Took me weeks. Been to loads of engineers, well known bases, used them in CGs. I've shown a mate the alien base and crash site, regularly fly 'the popular starports'. Number of griefers encountered: zero. Nil. None. Not a single one. All this non-stop whining and complaining is pretty much done because a crapload of non-open people insist on spending their time spreading rumours that are patently false. As in: the opposite of true. Complete , total falsehoods. And based on this crap it is constantly demanded in 100+ pages topics, mostly occupied by the same +-30 dudes, that FD does whatever i takes to help these people deal with their irrational fears.
And all the time you get the same stuff thrown back. "Its not about the chance it happens, its not about the frequency or prevalence. Its about the principle."
Then is it too much to ask to please stop posting lies all the time for no darn reason whatsoever other than push some wimpy agenda?
I know we supposedly live in the 'post-fact' era, but at some point someone has to stand up and say: NO, you have no idea what you are talking about, you are not contributing with your fear-mongering, go away.
Is that beter phrased?
And i have played over 1100 hours in open, have had some fun with interactions with other players at CG's and been rammed to death at least once at a CG by an 'at', had some fun with a genuine player pirate and that was beneficial gameplay to both of us... He roleplayed well... Met him a couple of times at different events... although his friend at one of the events was an at rammer running a tank build... cost the actual pirate the cargo I was about to release for him... and no I was not flying a no shields trade ship either...
I have also had some fun PVP combat, and so forth as well, and had some unwanted (by me at the time) interdiction attempts by other players as well... What is the point I am trying to make? None other than to say that there are people out there that do indeed want to watch the world burn... I have only participated in maybe 3 or 4 community goals... overall positive experiences but only because I was willing to accept the PVP component of it, I have not been to a single CG where some player did not try to engage me in PVP weather or not I wanted it... - Obviously I must have asked for it because I was playing in open...
Early on I moved to the fringe of the bubble, for months and months rarely saw ships passing through on the system ship log at the station, prior to leaving on my latest exploration journey (only had 2 exploration forays outside the bubble, first took me to the veil nebula set and got me to 90% ranger) there would be at least 10 - 20 different ships a day on the log, some passing through, others staying around for a little while etc trading amongst the local systems or mining at the pristine metallic rings etc... While I have been out in the black another commander contacted me asking me if I minded if he messed with the BGS in the area where my NPC minor faction exists as he needed to flip one of the systems that my minor faction controlled etc... quite kind of him to ask I guess
point being that there where more and more players arriving at my little nook... and no doubt by the time I get back, I do suspect there will be even more players in that system... given it is one of only 30 or so pristine metallic systems in the bubble (at the time)...Where people congregate, at well known systems, well known and highly visited stations, or places of reasonable interest for a player to visit, there will be the unsavoury types of players there as well, due to the fact that the galaxy is so vast that finding other 'targets' to engage with can be very difficult but going to known points of high visitation by commanders is almost a guarantee for a target, hence it happens...
You pointed out yourself that a certain wizard keeps trying to claim your scalp, at least that is my interpretation of it, so perhaps your skill, luck, instancing etc has played in your favour and you have been able to avoid it, the same cannot be said for other people...
Oh, when you mean a principled dislike against PvP, fine. Its the equivalent of saying "Playing football isn ot fun.". I disagree, but fair enough. But when people start saying "I dont play football because people will always remove your eyes with a rusty blade." I disgree a bit more strongly.
If a FD dev would come here and say "making Open PvE is a few days work at most.", I wouldnt mind the slightest. But from what I can see FD work with pretty long-term goals in mind, with teams confirmed to already work on spacelegs and atmo landings. I'd hate to see that delayed by months just for PvE mode. So it depends on that, really. Beyond that I have no principle problem with Open PvE, just as I dont care about people playing Solo or Mobius.
The thing is, how long do you think space legs and atmo will take? As they have said in the past, they want it to be quality, and how long before horizons was announced as being worked on do you think they where already working on it???
I would think they are starting now with atmo and space legs because to some extent, the atmo system will build on the framework that they did with horizons, and as it won't be released this season, my estimate is that they will be looking to launch season 3 probably at the release anniversary 2017. I would bet they have been working on atmo / space legs for some time in the back ground and only just recently announced they are working on it to the community... They would NOT be the first dev to keep things close to the chest and it would not be out of character for them to do so...
There are a number of potential ways it could be implemented, it does not necesarily need to involve a lot of major changes to the existing code base but would need to include at least one new mechanism and / or possibly a change to the TOS / EULA
If there was enough players asking for any one of those modes and the majority of players played that playstyle and they then repeatedly kept asking for it for over 18 months or more, then there would be no arguement as to weather or not it was a valid request for a new mode would there
Indeed I agree with you 100% on this and of course there was no actual arguement from the poster because they do not have an arguement... just more attempts to derail the discussion...
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I could suggest the membership to mobius is possibly also an interest in doing away with the current mindless destrution that passes for PvP mechanics in ED at the moment.
I'd like to think if:-
a) Crime and Punishment meant mindless destruction was very very rare.
b) PvE and PvP gameplay/mechanics were actually improved in ED, such that if someone wanted to participate in (legal) PvP they could do so easily, in interesting situation, with other CMDRs also interested in PvP.
...ultimately OPEN would become a far more appealing environment for far more players. ie: If you wanted to play in OPEN only participating in PvE, then you could do that and almost guarantee you'd never encounter the current mindless destruction passing for gameplay at the moment... And if wanted to do some PvP, then you'd simply go down one of the avenues open to you to put you in those situations... Rather than the current farcicle mechanic of randomly interdicting other CMDRs for PvP who are not interested or outfitted for it.
Except that you can absolutely 100% guarantee that a bounty cash payout system would be abused.