The only thing worse is a busted thought-process.
Maybe you could try to get that fixed?
Frontier, the absence of a Universal Limpet Controller undermines your own good work
- Thread starter TheSynopticVision
- Start date
The only thing worse is a busted thought-process.
Maybe you could try to get that fixed?
I think you'd have to accept some type of compromise with this.
I mean, let's say you have a C7 controller.
I think it'd be a bit much to expect to program if for, say, prospecting, lauch 4 limpets and then reprogram it for collecting and launch another 4 limpets.
A reasonable compromise (IMO, at least) would be to have it work almost exactly like an SLF hangar.
You buy the controller, it has a fixed number of "launchers" (1 for C1, 2 for C3, 3 for C5 and 4 for C7) and then you can select whatever function you like for each "launcher".
For mining, you might pick a C7 controller and load it up with 1x prospector and 3x collector.
For looting you might pick a C5 controller and load it up with 1x recon, 1x hatchbreaker and 1x collector.
For exploration, you might pick a C3 controller and load it up with 1x repair and 1x research.
Do it that way and you maintain the all-important balance because you'll always have to decide whether to fit a wide variety of functions or fit multiples of the same function.
In either case, overall you're still limited by the number of "launchers" each controller has, just as we are now.
Main issue would probably be how to select what to fire.
Again, I'd suggest doing that a bit like with an SLF bay.
You access the down-HUD, select a limpet type from the options available and then you can use the fire-button to launch them, up to a maximum of however many "launchers" you've configured for that function.
So, if you had, say, two C7 controllers, with 1 set up for 1x Recon and 3x Collectors and the other set up for 1x Hatchbreaker and 3x Collectors, the most collectors you've be able to launch at any time would be 6.
*EDI*
Course, having said all that, DSS Probes have shown us that FDev is willing to abandom realism entirely for the sake of gameplay, so how about infinite limpets too?
Last edited:
Debates and polemics above aside, what I really find puzzling is this. We know that they've been considering something like a ULC at least since last January (because Steve Kirby mentioned it here on the forum). Look how many variations on the theme of a ULC we've come up with on this thread, considering various advantages/disadvantages and balancing issues, in just 3 days.
Why didn't they -- professional game designers -- come up with a balanced and well-thought idea for a ULC in 12 months? Have they decided to abandon the idea? OK, say that: "we will not introduce any modification of the current limpet controllers". All we've been told so far is: "it will not be part of Beyond". Which does not mean anything tbh. Does it mean that it's coming in the next update? Before that as a special addition? Never? Simple questions, simple answers.
Considering how requested this feature is, and that you've already said you were considering it (i.e. this is not a spacelegs scenario, we're talking about something far more concrete, and simple -- simpler than a new ship, far simpler than the new mining tools...), how about telling us something?
Why didn't they -- professional game designers -- come up with a balanced and well-thought idea for a ULC in 12 months? Have they decided to abandon the idea? OK, say that: "we will not introduce any modification of the current limpet controllers". All we've been told so far is: "it will not be part of Beyond". Which does not mean anything tbh. Does it mean that it's coming in the next update? Before that as a special addition? Never? Simple questions, simple answers.
Considering how requested this feature is, and that you've already said you were considering it (i.e. this is not a spacelegs scenario, we're talking about something far more concrete, and simple -- simpler than a new ship, far simpler than the new mining tools...), how about telling us something?
Last edited:
I too consider that Frontier has to solve somehow the 8 limpet controllers issue. There were a good amount of ideas in the thread.
I think the easiest to implement would be to have slots inside a limpet "rack" controller: 1 for size 1, 3 for size 3, 5 for size 5, etc. For example I may want to split a size 5 controller into a size 1 repair, size 1 recon and size 3 collector. This won't allow small or medium ships to carry all kinds of controllers, but it would solve the controller inflation and the "emergent gameplay".
A good idea also would be to eliminate some other optional rack, like they did with the ADS, by make them standard equipment or optional with dedicated slots in core internals (like the bulkheads for example). Docking computer, the probe launcher (DSS), the recon controller, etc. would be the obvious candidates. This will allow more space in optionals for controllers. Add to this some easy consolidation (repair + decontamination should be only one controller) and we are good.
I think the easiest to implement would be to have slots inside a limpet "rack" controller: 1 for size 1, 3 for size 3, 5 for size 5, etc. For example I may want to split a size 5 controller into a size 1 repair, size 1 recon and size 3 collector. This won't allow small or medium ships to carry all kinds of controllers, but it would solve the controller inflation and the "emergent gameplay".
A good idea also would be to eliminate some other optional rack, like they did with the ADS, by make them standard equipment or optional with dedicated slots in core internals (like the bulkheads for example). Docking computer, the probe launcher (DSS), the recon controller, etc. would be the obvious candidates. This will allow more space in optionals for controllers. Add to this some easy consolidation (repair + decontamination should be only one controller) and we are good.
Sterling MH
Banned
Sure, but you'll need to move over here for your therapy sessions so I can fix that for you.
Such as you thinking THAT was a counterpoint.
I posted this in the original thread about this issue and there the thread died. I'll post it again, not to be annoying but to make a point:
Originally, there were "collector" limpets. And a controller for them. Then they came up with prospector limpets. And a controller for them. And so on.
The argument was "Make a decision as to what you want to bring. Otherwise you just want an 'I win!' button."
My argument: If FD simply added an option on the original controller to switch from one mode to another and just kept adding options to that switch (meaning only one controller with continuous selections on it) would ANYONE here want FD to break that controller up to 8 (or more) individual controllers? If we could still do polls.........
"Yeah, let's make it more complicated with 8 individual controllers with limited space in our ship. I like that idea a lot."
I've never heard that statement made with a straight face yet.
Originally, there were "collector" limpets. And a controller for them. Then they came up with prospector limpets. And a controller for them. And so on.
The argument was "Make a decision as to what you want to bring. Otherwise you just want an 'I win!' button."
My argument: If FD simply added an option on the original controller to switch from one mode to another and just kept adding options to that switch (meaning only one controller with continuous selections on it) would ANYONE here want FD to break that controller up to 8 (or more) individual controllers? If we could still do polls.........
"Yeah, let's make it more complicated with 8 individual controllers with limited space in our ship. I like that idea a lot."
I've never heard that statement made with a straight face yet.
Sterling MH
Banned
We;ve come up with them and every single one has had a heapload of anger and refusal for THAT variation on a theme of ULC. Now imagine one of us just made that the version. FD are sane in not touching this with a bargepole because there are wanters and screamers who just want want want.
The complaint another poster about this being yet another needy thread was overdone, but there are far too many who want "a better mousetrap" but don't want what someone else thinks fits in if it doesn't fit that person's desires. Which they don't explicitly state. They also ignore how to actually engineer their dreams. Easy to say "just program a new AI to allow home doctoring!", but only if you're not the one having to write that AI and fit it to the current laws, or get the laws changed/clarified.
"I WANT A ULC!!!". Then write one. "I DON'T LIKE YOUR IDEA!!!". Then don't. But FD are going to be leery of doing anything for anyone when whenever they DO do something the threads get bombed with people just going "I HATE!".
And this thread has shown that people will quite happily want only what they want in detail, not just "A ULC". And everyone has a different want from that ULC.
Gather those who want it, give each one card to write their idea on and one club. Lock them in a stadium until theres only one card left, no matter how few people are standing. Until then, there's no idea that FD can safely go ahead on.
If they balanced it via weight and cost, it will be refused. If they included a way to select each limpet, it will be refused for adding too many controls. If they include a context sensitive system, it would be a straitjacket for some and refused. If they made specialised limpets you selected and fired off, people would refuse because it is cumbersome and slow.
We have variations on the ideas over three days, yes. Each one has a loud proportion who hate the idea with a passion.
Might as well leave everyone hating the separate controllers with a passion and go and do something more useful instead.
I'm afraid I'm not qualified to give you the therapy you need.
COMPLETELEY AGREE WITH OP!
Well written! A lot of wasted new gameplay. There's so much new to do with the new scenario and USS but still we can't play it... Why?
Why is Frontier limiting the gameplay without any reason?
Requireing a ship slot for each single controller is not:
- REALISTIC
- COMMON SENSE
- FUN
It does not even require additional software code....
Just enable all functions to a single module.
Not even need for additional key bindings...
You choose:
1. set all fire groups to have them all at once.
2. use only one fire group and everytime you need a specific limpet you assign the function to the fire button.
It's up to you how to use it.
Easy done, community happy!
Frontier is not happy with this balance?
Ok, make 3 groups then...
One controller for transporting (collector and fuel)
One for breaking and repairing
One for all analysing mode
Well written! A lot of wasted new gameplay. There's so much new to do with the new scenario and USS but still we can't play it... Why?
Why is Frontier limiting the gameplay without any reason?
Requireing a ship slot for each single controller is not:
- REALISTIC
- COMMON SENSE
- FUN
It does not even require additional software code....
Just enable all functions to a single module.
Not even need for additional key bindings...
You choose:
1. set all fire groups to have them all at once.
2. use only one fire group and everytime you need a specific limpet you assign the function to the fire button.
It's up to you how to use it.
Easy done, community happy!
Frontier is not happy with this balance?
Ok, make 3 groups then...
One controller for transporting (collector and fuel)
One for breaking and repairing
One for all analysing mode
Sterling MH
Banned
And that is why you need to visit for your therapy lessons. YOU are the one needing therapy, dearie. You are.
This. I've seen this idea articulated before and to me it's the best idea out there. Add to it that the limpets themselves are contained in the controller module, don't need to be carried around as cargo (obviating the need to outfit a cargo bay), and that they can be "recalled" when their job is done (also just like SLFs), and you're in business. It wouldn't even require any new UI mechanics.
You could also start to get into more "advanced" programming options for example on collectors: Collect all/Collect only materials/Collect only legal salvage/Collect only mission targets, etc. Right now you can't really get this specific without burning a limpet for every single item collected.
Last edited:
Sterling MH
Banned
(insert Star Wars Prequel Vader Meme) NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!
It's not easy mode it purely common sense. 8 different limpet controllers is crazy.
Sterling MH
Banned
Since all you called crazy was 8 limpet controllers, a universal one that has three limpets, fits a class 6 bay, and costs 20 million credits (about what 8 class 3 limpet controllers would cost, finger in air guess), this would be fine, yes?
if not, then the crazy part is not just 8 controllers. You need to explain what counts as not-crazy as a solution to 8 controllers.
How many will need all 8 anyway? Miners still need just 2. Fuel rats 1. Pirates 2 as well. Everyone else really doesn't need any.
If 80% of the new USS content is done with recon fuel and repair limpets, all you need are three controllers, not 8. Are three controllers crazy?
This makes no sense whatsoever. If a game developer was so terrified of user feedback, no game would ever be made.
Was the paralizing terror of our angry reactions enough to stop them from introducing completely new exploration tools? Nope.
Was the dreadful prospect of Forum complaint enough to make them desist from redesigning the engineering process. Nah.
There are good ideas and there are worse ideas, sure. But you know what, it's their job as game designers with training in game design and game designers salaries to come up with the best possible option (also using our feedback as a guide).
I honestly doubt that one fine day, in Frontier HQ, someone said "Hey, how about that Universal Limpet Controller idea?" and everyone else in the meeting room, cowering under the desks: "What the hell dude, shut your mouth! People will be ANGRY!".
Wrong again. 80% of the new USS content requires:
- Fuel Limpets
- Recon Limpets
- Collector Limpets
- Hatchbreaker Limpets
- Repair Limpets
That's 5
Sterling MH
Banned
OK. That presumes they all appear equally frequently, but lets go with that absent any other data.
So 8 limpet controllers is insane.
Is it wrong, it's actually *5* controllers that is insane? Because the goalpost of how many controllers there "should" be to the complainers keeps shifting.
And 50% of the content can be done with just three. Given there's a lot of content for thargoids and combat out there, for which a trader is no capable of engaging in, meaning we already have a lack of content to engage in (I am sure combat builds also lack a lot of gameplay options brought up, I just can't think of one other than long range exploration, which takes so long the "hassle" of swapping ships is nonexistent) already to about that level.
If 50% can be done by three, and you were going to carry two of them anyway, that's one lost hold. Which not needing the discovery scanner opened up anyway.
You can always find cases where it's bad. Who chooses that specific case, though, and do they always so choose? If not, then it's not as bad as made out.
Point here being if, for example, fuel and recon probes were merged, you can't recon player ships and you can't refuel megaships, so targeting them tells you what you are using the probe for, then there's technically only 7 controllers, two can be bought in a BOGOF deal. Is THAT now not insane? Not if 5 is still the insane level.
Sterling MH
Banned
Feedback is defined as a loud screeching noise from a loudspeaker due to uncontrolled inputs. Most of the "feedback" users give is of this sort.
Feedback of no telepresence to your own ships being best to keep the scale of the universe was met with loud screeching noises. The list DOES go on. Why bother with user feedback if the feedback on a single issue is everyone clamouring for ULCs but refusing an example one when proffered?
It's not fear of feedback, it's learned response that the loudest noise comes from the emptiest containers.