Frontier's Opinion on Federation/Imperial rank system

[Moonax IRL]

The military mission system is a placeholder to an extent. There is no point in tinkering with them till a complete overhaul can be done and there are other more urgent priorities to attend to. It has been mentioned that it will be looked at a future date.
Pointless threads complaining about how slow the system is are mute and pop up like clockwork, maybe the mods could just dump them altogether in the one megathread instead of it being a weekly/daily occurrence.
Do something else in game and take a break from the fixation.

 

[babelfisch]

FDEVs opinion on naval progression is that they don't like it and see it as a placeholder mechanic. They are already working on an overhaul. I don't know if you will like the overhaul though.

 

[PhanttoM]

I don't know about the combat zone missions, but data delivery missions DEFINETLY don't give 1% per mission, not even close. From Count on, it's more like 1% per 5-6 missions. The missions that give the best boost to ranking right now are donation missions. 1 Million = around 80% of a 1%. So you have a choice now:

1 - Grinding delivery/data missions in clusters of systems with good mission sinergy
2 - Paying upwards of 100 million per rank increase (in the last ranks)
3 - Mix and match 1 and 2, while at the same time doing some other things or different missions to break monotony.

After 1 week with option 1 for the empire, I'm going for option 3 for the federation. Slower, but more fun. Maybe it takes a month instead of a week now, but there's no hurry!

My pool of examples is up to Baron. I haven't bothered going past Baron since last savegame wipe.

 

[Adhock]

The military mission system is a placeholder to an extent. There is no point in tinkering with them til a complete overhaul can be done and there are other more urgent priorities to attend to. It has been mentioned that it will be looked at a future date.
Pointless threads complaining about how slow the system is are mute and pop up like clockwork, maybe the mods could just dump them altogether in the one megathread instead of it being a weekly/daily occurrence.
Do something else in game and take a break from the fixation.

Can't stress this enough. The Devs have already commented on how unhappy they are with the current system and eventually want to get around to doing a full revamp with PROPER military careers and advancement.

And also want to do something about the dual ranking that's currently possible.

Honestly if they want to do that, they need to rethink some of the Engineer's requirements. How ironic they want to discourage dual ranking when you need to rank up to gain access to an Imperial Engineer who unlocks a Federation aligned one? If they're going to do this, they ought to cap the rank at some point. After all, they do want to give us the ability to play both sides...

...but I agree in that they should prevent you from fully ranking up in both given that one or both of them won't trust you fully if you've proven you're not fully loyal.

 

[Helfar]

Wow there is an echo in here

 

[Codger]

It takes a long time, but it's doable.

Here's how I did it, in case you're interested. Empire works the same way, just different systems.

[video=youtube;hS4AttJhcLI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hS4AttJhcLI[/video]

 

[Plater]

I've bought my corvette and cutter so I won't need to worry about losing out, I used this for the imperial ranking https://youtu.be/2Mq42jB6DSA

 

[Jenner]

I made the unfortunate mistake of pausing my naval progression after I hit Baron and got the Clipper. By the time the Cutter came in and I needed more ranks, FD had severely nerfed the ranking so that it now takes forever to get anywhere. Even back when I did my ranking (like a year ago or so) it took me a couple of weeks effort to get up to Baron. That's about my tolerance level for it, especially given how un-immersive it really is. (Donation missions? Mode switching/stacking? Really?) Honestly I'm not holding my breath for a fix anytime soon. FD have said before they were going to revamp it, and it's only gotten worse imho. It's one of my biggest pet peeves with the game right now.

 

[babelfisch]

The military mission system is a placeholder to an extent. There is no point in tinkering with them till a complete overhaul can be done and there are other more urgent priorities to attend to. It has been mentioned that it will be looked at a future date.
Pointless threads complaining about how slow the system is are mute and pop up like clockwork, maybe the mods could just dump them altogether in the one megathread instead of it being a weekly/daily occurrence.
Do something else in game and take a break from the fixation.

I generally agree, spending manpower on something that gets replaced anyway is a waste of time. However OP also asks in which way FDEV wants to improve/overhaul the naval progression system, which is a legitimate and interesting question in my opinion. If they would tell us their plans and visions we could give them some feedback before they mess it up like PP or the initial Engineers release. I am aware that the usual ranting and whining will happen anyway, regardless of how they implement it. There will always be someone disappointed. But there could also be valuable feedback and interesting ideas/suggestions.

 

[CMDR Harada]

I've been a Duke for a while, and just earned my Rear Admiral-ship.
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Ranking SUX. Pure and simple. I don't know how I got to Duke in the Empire. I was trying to grind ranks in Fed space, and every time I hit the Empire to cash bounties, there was another promotion mission. This was pre 2.1, so I can see that maybe I was choosing empire factions to run missions for. They didn't have the little advancement bar back then, so I can't comment.
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Feds ranking.. OMG. Awful. My numbers showed it was 4 delivery missions per 1% on the last promotion, and it took me a week to grind the last 400 missions on Tun. I had to mode switch to stack the max 20 mission count, and I picked up new missions for other stops on my 'route' while I was running it. Between that and donation missions, I got about 7-10% per 'run'. It was pretty much break-even credits wise, spending what I made doing the runs on donations. Still, over a week, hard core, nothing but grinding for 3-4 hours a night. It was not fun. There has to be a better way. If 17 Draconis was still working, I would have gladly spent the 100 million to do the last promotion. The only reason i did it was the rumor the Thargoids would be here soon and I didn't want to run delivery missions under an alien threat, and I was already an Ensign.
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I don't believe in the everything now philosophy. I've worked hard for the ranks I have, and the credits to afford the rank locked ships. But the ranking system needs to be fixed. Delivery missions as requirements for promotion opportunities seems... silly. Delivering 2 million tons of fish/water/Consumer Electronics, and ba-zillions of gigabytes of data doesn't seem ( to me at least ) to be Admiral making material. I would think I'd get a LOT more rep if I was running search and destroy missions for Hudson/Winters. Or even delivering war materials for them. Combat bonds should be perfect for this, or killing pirate lords, or strikes on Empire systems. Something more meaningful than delivery boy. Maybe missions specific to naval progression, that would give 3-5%..

 

[CmdrKull]

I 100% agree that mission difficulty should tie to rank percentage gained, though I run a lot of courier missions that have a suggested pilot rank of elite and they take me the same amount of time as the ones that pay peanuts and have a low pilot rank requirement. Distance travelled would be a great indicator, and maybe a good option for the rep+++ that seems to be missing. Maybe just the general type of mission should make more of a difference as well, with a greater gain from fighting. However, think I'm going to go ahead and keep ranking until King, because I don't trust them not to double the expected time to rank. I don't expect things on a silver platter, but is it too much to ask that I don't get the space madness trying to progress?

 

[BigBANGtheory [VR]]

However, think I'm going to go ahead and keep ranking until King, because I don't trust them not to double the expected time to rank.

It is a risk, though I can image that it is more likely to be fleshed out so the time to rank might be longer BUT be more interesting and rewarding. The principle problem though is FDev not discussing it so you just don't know either way [weird]

 

[CmdrKull]

Funnily enough When i finish grinding fed rank I may grind my empire rank after to get the cutter before someone realises you have commanders holding both King and Admiral ranks.

This boat has sailed. They will never roll back people's rank progression just because it makes absolutely no sense (and it doesn't. You should not be able to hold rank in two competing militaries without someone hanging you for treason). So we are stuck with the admiral kings.

I won't do it though. I'm at 100% of the first federal rank but have not and will not ever accept a fed navy mission. Would I like a corvette? Yes I would, very much so, but it doesn't mesh with my view of the game. you'll never hear me calling for a nerf of other players though, I don't need others to conform to my ideals of gameplay.

 

[Lacho78]

Can't stress this enough. The Devs have already commented on how unhappy they are with the current system and eventually want to get around to doing a full revamp with PROPER military careers and advancement.

I didn't mean to sound like a hater or complain, I just really wanted to know what Frontier's opinion and plans for the ranking system are, and that second sentence answered that, thank you.

 

[BigBANGtheory [VR]]

It also depends on what sort of player you are, some like to plod along and don't want to be challenged too much and for them a slow and steady progression suits their game style. If you are in a rush to try out the big ships then that slow and steady model is a barrier and also not very realistic since you should really receive far more reputation for certain actions. I think you need to go to one of these FDev events and just ask the question respectfully. Since it is possible to rank up at a reasonable speed using 'questionable methods or gameplay' there are probably more pressing issues for FDev atm.

 

[cmdr m0kn]

One thing still bothering me, that you can rank up at both superpowers... It's like everybody is a double-agent. Being an Admiral, and flying a Cutter to Sol, yeah right.

 

[Martian Successor]

I agree with all of you saying that it should take a long time, the Corvette and Cutter are nothing to laugh at and shouldn't be something achievable in a few days. But the process of getting to that rank is SO dull, it typically consists of taking data or cargo from one place to another...which gets repetitive very quickly. If I were to suggest anything I would say to make the ranking system somewhat of a story, or at least the closest thing E is going to get to a story. You start as the errand boy taking cargo and data from one place to another, after ranking up a bit you are trusted with retrieving valuables or classified information from destroyed convoys, then you start getting sorted into wings and sent on recon missions, then sent to wars, so on and so forth. I feel it would add life to the galaxy and give more of an incentive to take a side and level up with them. Let me know your opinions .

That sounds great. Especially missions where you wing up with military NPC squadrons - now that would start to feel like you're actually going through a military career.

This I cannot agree more with this, you're right.

It's like being a high ranking far left wing, and high ranking far right wing activist at the same time. Doesn't compute at all.

Think it should be as you move up in say the Feds, your Imperial rank would go down at equal pace. Likewise if you want up in imperial ranks, your fed colleagues will demote you just as quickly. Makes so much more sense - pick a side and stick with it.

Other middle rogue organisations can be insignificant to the feds or imperials, so possibly you could be king in imperial and gain ranks in Independent without issue. Or it may be that all three affect each other... whatever the case imperials and feds should always be polar opposites.

I don't think they'll ever do this to be honest because they've already structured some of the main content around the odd fact that we can rank up in both navies:

● Certain ships are locked behind naval rank so they'd have to overhaul how that works, and not just in terms of only being able to level one navy at a time, i.e. lore-wise how is the Empire ever going to trust you if you're flying around a FAS for example and vice versa? That's like working for the Empire as a stormtrooper from Star Wars while flying an X-wing.

● Certain Engineers are unlocked with requirements of naval rank and a Fed aligned Engineer actually unlocks an Empire aligned Engineer and vice versa. This would make unlocking Engineers a total headache if you could only level up one navy's rank at a time
It would also need to be explained in the lore of the game - i.e. Ok, so Engineers are a law unto themselves and they all know each other like they're part of some secret Order of the Tinkerers, which you get invited to access. That's kind of cool but then why are some of them specifically aligned to Empire or Fed, so much so that they would care about your rank within that particular navy? Yes, the powers would want to use the Engineers' expertise but the Engineers wouldn't allow themselves to be conscripted into their military. They don't work for the Feds nor the Imps.
The Engineers would all either need to be aligned with the Alliance (cos then they'd be neutral) or FD should add a new "Order of the Engineers" type rank that the player progresses through to gain access to them all.

By not addressing the issue of naval rank early on and even worse; adding more official features tied into it while it is still in its place holder state FD have put themselves into a box that is becoming exceedingly difficult to get out of as more time goes by.

 

[CMDR-AD]

I'd be pleased if the current system (which makes little sense), was trashed and replaced by progression based on participation in specific Naval Reserve military operations content.

Combat focus - Fly to systems where your superpower is engaged in conflict, join and fight on their side. Increased rank would offer bonuses such as ammo/restock being paid for by the Naval Reserve, and at higher levels, perhaps also ship damage from combat service. Perhaps a future use for the Capital Ship docks.

Logistics focus - Run specified routes from supply systems to superpower military surface bases and Capital Ship docks. Carry cargo loads of weapons, troops (passengers), medical supplies, and food. Perhaps have some convoy mechanic in place, where you must be in a Wing with the Naval Reserve Logistics Convoy leader during the trip.

Intelligence focus - Fly to hostile points specified and scan data beacons, collecting intel to be returned to your Naval Outpost. Fly over hostile surface installations to collect photographic recon. Ferry military intel between allied military sites. Sabotage hostile data beacons by injecting corrupt data and malware to their systems.

To be honest, the rank locked ships are only treated as such to give some reason to bother advancing the Naval Reserve ranking. There is little other reason. With some interesting Naval Reserve focus gameplay players would probably be involved with the progress more naturally, and there might not even be any reason to rank lock some ships (or at least perhaps not as strongly).

Besides, breaking the rank lock off the ships and replacing it with Naval Reserve commitment play would finally open the way to getting away from being a King in every warring faction. Getting clear of the "progress bar" effect, and making it a major choice for the CMDR, and the broader backdrop of the galactic conflicts.

 

[StiTch]

IIRC this has been highlighted by FD already as a bit of a crap system. There was mention of a total overhaul but given how much pressure they're under in terms of development time, I imagine it'll get left until they have time to revamp it good and proper.

 

[DragoonKnight]

This I cannot agree more with this, you're right.

It's like being a high ranking far left wing, and high ranking far right wing activist at the same time. Doesn't compute at all.

Think it should be as you move up in say the Feds, your Imperial rank would go down at equal pace. Likewise if you want up in imperial ranks, your fed colleagues will demote you just as quickly. Makes so much more sense - pick a side and stick with it.

Other middle rogue organisations can be insignificant to the feds or imperials, so possibly you could be king in imperial and gain ranks in Independent without issue. Or it may be that all three affect each other... whatever the case imperials and feds should always be polar opposites.

Stop trying to impose arbitrary limits on what people can and can not fly.

First of all you are not a member of the fed or empire navy. You are an auxiliary member.

Second, a CMDR could be a mercenary or double agent. Thus he holds honorary ranks in both.

Finally, there is no good gameplay reason to lock out the player population from the 4 ships unique to each side. It will be Especially hard to dp fairly since many of us already purchased the ships, so even if we lose the rank for them it wont matter. We still have the ships.

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IIRC this has been highlighted by FD already as a bit of a crap system. There was mention of a total overhaul but given how much pressure they're under in terms of development time, I imagine it'll get left until they have time to revamp it good and proper.

Maybe a revamp of PP and the rank system is their 2.4 surprise