FSS improvement thread

And here we are again, now on the next level. Yet another constructive thread, which was in danger of being killed by the "rah, rah, I never even tried the FSS, but I am sure that I hate it and it has to be undone" guy. And when that guy now gets a warning that it might actually be an awesome idea that instead of doing the same foolish crap again and again, you come in and try to turn the thread into a discussion about censorship?

I am sorry, but I can't tell you what I think of what you just do here right now and yourself at this very moment. Writing it out would get me banned. So please, do yourself a favour and think things over. Do you really dwell and enjoy the reputation of being unable to leave any thread to be constructive? Wouldn't it feel better if you'd try to add constructive feedback instead?

I'm not posting in this thread again as I have nothing constructive to offer. I will however point out that plenty of us gave very constructive feedback in the initial announcement thread. Not the focused feedback thread since the topic wasn't even deemed worthy of one, but the fait accompli version which was created to tell us what was being done.

Anyway, yeah. The vast majority of it was summarily ignored, other than one specific issue about which they said 'we thought about it and well, tough crap' So please don't go on about constructive feedback because we tried that.
 
My top wishlist for the FSS, in no particular order:


1: An option to turn off the animations for anything but panning the cursor and zoom transitions. I'm sure I'd enjoy it more if I could spend more than a brief amount of time in it without feeling like a knife was being jammed into one of my eyes. this is an accessibility thing on a par with colourblind modes, it's just something which would require a little bit of developer work, for a noticeable instant benefit to several players.

2: The ability for the initial FSS system scan to somehow get a visualisation of orbital relationships prior to knowing what any of the bodies in the system are, so I can know if it's worth bothering to find out what they are. I'd happily sacrifice a module slot for this info. It's what I use to determine if I want to even bother scanning anything, but now is only available after scanning everything. Wouldn't impact anything else, since the full FSS scan would still be required for the rest of the info on the bodies.

3: The ability to use the FSS in multicrew. Somebody else being able to use it while I fly the ship, history is replete with great explorer duos, Elite, not so much. And multicrew flat out needs more for us to do to make it worth using the features they already built for the game!

4: The ability to use the FSS while moving. This is the big one for me. flying to stuff is where the exploration happens for me. I currently manage to make the FSS kind of work for me by only scanning gas giants upon system entry, and then flying to them if they have interesting systems. Let me do the rest of the scanning of the system in the five minutes while I'm en route to one of those.

5: The ability to use the FSS within my cockpit. Nothing breaks immersion and makes you feel like you're playing a videogame instead of flying a spaceship, than regularly having to drop out of your beautifully rendered cockpit where you keep all your lovingly placed personal touches, and instead stare at a flat plane, clicking on blobs like I'm playing a mobile whac-a-mole clone on my phone. It feels very much like this was originally conceived as something that'd be part of some kind of companion app, which you could run on a tablet mounted on your desk beside your HOTAS, but that idea was abandoned due to synching issues or somesuch at some point during development.


Any one of these improvements alone would massively improve my FSS experience. And most have been requested by others at one time or another, going back to the initial beta period for the 3.3 patch. But I'm pretty sure all of them are very much possible to one degree or another, depending on how much time Frontier would be reasonably able to invest in them.
 
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It’s hard to be constructive about something so deeply flawed.

What he meant to say is:

The existing FSS implementation is so far from ideal, for some of us, that it would require a bottom-up re-work of the entire system in order to begin to be something we enjoy. Consequently, discussing QoL improvements to the existing system isn't something that is worth engaging with.
 
It’s hard to be constructive about something so deeply flawed.
Not at all, the more flawed something is, the more options for improvement it has, which is why the FSS has so much potential!

"Imperfection is what makes scientific experimentation possible!"

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What he meant to say is:

The existing FSS implementation is so far from ideal, for some of us, that it would require a bottom-up re-work of the entire system in order to begin to be something we enjoy. Consequently, discussing QoL improvements to the existing system isn't something that is worth engaging with.

Exactly.
 
My top wishlist for the FSS, in no particular order:


1: An option to turn off the animations for anything but panning the cursor and zoom transitions. I'm sure I'd enjoy it more if I could spend more than a brief amount of time in it without feeling like a knife was being jammed into one of my eyes. this is an accessibility thing on a par with colourblind modes, it's just something which would require a little bit of developer work, for a noticeable instant benefit to several players.

I'd like the zoom animation optional as well as doing it fast makes me motion sick.
 
Sorry for the off topic, but why the other thread was closed and not cleaned up, anyone knows?

For the same reason you have a dog with cancer, glaucoma, hip-displasia, seizure disorder, and dementia put down, rather than spend tens of thousands of dollars at the vets to buy it one more day - it's more economical that way, and gives you the perfect reason to start to enjoy a new dog that much sooner. Honk-honk.
 
There is a range of preferences from full automation to no automation for the exploration experience, which is no surprise as there is a range of focus on what part or all of the exploration experience people enjoy the most. However, there are major issues with full automation:

Firstly, automation is only that - automation. It leaves no room for discovery of anything new. Before 3.3, we basically had a system where new discoveries came in as classes that resolved like they had always been known about. The only way to add new things to discover was to have new ready-made entries. This does not seem particularly realistic and is a bit clunky. We still have remnants of that system, as notable stellar phenomena comes into the Nav Panel as that. I am not sure it even needs a DS ping, but then again I have only seen them in previously explored areas. In today's world, advanced automation and processing using, for example, Machine Learning, are coming under criticism as the method can only describe what it is trained to, and we can only train it with what we know. So the methods are great for filtering and categorising the known, not good at dealing with the unknown.

That would be the basic argument against a fully automated exploration system. The FSS is a tool that leaves room to discover new things, as the full range of the exploration instrument is shown in the spectrogram. That being said, there is no reason we can't streamline the discovery experience. And there has been many good suggestions early on, including ways to have the FSA partly automated so it is guided to interesting blobs rather than moved entirely manually. It would be nice to have toggles for that, though, so one could set the level of automation on preference. I suggested to either populate the Nav Panel with "Unknown" entries with no distance of composition information, or populate a flat screen with the unwrapped FSS image, and people could click and bookmark those. They would still need to be scanned with the FSS - either by rotation the ship to face them or entering the FSA for a less slow experience.

The second argument against automation is that it makes people dumber. Automation places a black box between basic and expert knowledge on a subject, leading to an issue where those with the knowledge of the natural systems don't quite understand the tools used to describe them, and those knowing the systems to describe with have little idea of the natural systems. Those trying to enter the field of the natural system in question then have the daunting task of having to learn both, ending up specialising in nothing. Think for example of the general knowledge of drivers today compared to 30 or 50 years ago. Most knew basic maintenance then, and could recognise car parts and the symptoms of what had gone wrong. They often also knew a bit of technical driving from having to deal more directly with the physics involved in hurling tonnes of mechanical equipment around at sub-ballistic speed. Now everything in cars is electronically monitored and compensated, making driving approaching a point-and-click experince. Many today just barely knows what a yellow or red light comes up on the dashboard means, and may have odd ideas about whether something can be ignored for a bit or needs dealing with. And ask them where the starter motor is or what the tremor in the steering is about, and they have no idea at all. The same goes for car mechanics - those at the shop I use talk about how it used to be fun to work on cars. But now you just plug them in and run a programme that tells you what part to entirely replace. They take my business with a friendly smile when I bring in the 2015 Hyundai for service, but their eyes light up like children's at christmas when I bring in the 1975 Ford Capri GT. The latter is the mechanic's wet dream and even I know how to do basic service and maintenance on it.

So why in 1300 years haven't we made algorithms or AI capable of learning entirely new stuff on their own? Probably because it would render us useless and they may not have our best interest in mind. People want to be able to do things that gives their time value and life meaning.

Also, why in 1300 years do we still see remnants of scarcity economics? There's obviously plenty of energy and materials to go around to keep everybody comfortable, yet we deal with famines and blight and societies that are often based loosely on today's market economy. Something must have happened along the way that pushed us away from techno-utopia. It could be that humanity for a little while lived in a dream world where everything was taking care of for them and they could pursue arts or whatever. They probably quickly realised, like that old sci-fi short story, that 95% of humanity have nothing worthwhile to contribute. So it was best to leave some automatable tasks in human hands.

The above is my main argument against fully automating exploration where we only have to drive around clicking on things. But I also like to be able to scale the level of involvement in exploration. So if somebody wanted the full experience of the current FSS they could. If someone wanted to have a bit of angle-related auto-targeting within the FSA that would also be possible. If someone wanted to not be in the FSA at all, alternative screens could come up, such as a Nav Panel populator or a screen with blobs on a flat map (inverted Mercator projection), or even a globe on the dashboard. If someone didn't want do deal with the discovery part of exploration at all, the job could be delegated to a specialised NPC or a multi-crew member.

Having worked a lot on ships doing research and exploration, I frankly have no understanding why everybody in a multi-crew situation should be equally busy all the time. The need to sit almost entirely still is a bit jarring, but if we were able to move while using the FSS and the difficulty of using the FSS scaled with the relative velocity of the ship and the objects being surveyed, the pilot and the exploring crew member would have to work together to find an optimal solution between speed and exploration efficiency.

Lots of room for improvement in the current FSS, yet I'm already having a blast with the current model.

:D S
 
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SRV wave scanner type of option would be nice. In cockpit, no out of ship screen clicking on blobs. Then you'd have to use a fancy scanner to resolve astronomical bodies. I've spent hours in normal space, modules and flight assist turned off, just listening what is out there. The current ADS could also utilize orrery view somehow, people tend to forget it exists currently.
 
I would improve the FSS by removing the ability for people to see what is in the system at a glance after the bang. Stars would maybe be revealed by the bang as they are now, maybe not. If anything was revealed it would be very ambiguous. All you could maybe tell at a glance is whether the system is very dense or not.

After that, you would tune to a part of the spectrum and this would amplify any signals in that region. You would then sweep around and have to locate the signals by ear or by eye on some kind of frequency response graph. Once you got very close, the little clock face signal indicator would show up on your reticle so as not to be too particular.

No.... just no.


Also, while I do spend the time to locate all bodies sometimes anyone that follows me is likely to have some things left to look at. When I'm trying to get somewhere I tend to only scan planets, not moons, and usually just WW, ELW, GG, HMCs. Other things I pass on. If I'm out to just explore though, tough luck, I'm finding them all and mapping anything interesting.
 
Thank You, Everyone! Note that the OP has been updated to contain the list of ideas submitted to this thread. Thank You for numerous submissions and keeping this thread on track.
The list shall be updated every time an idea comes up.
 
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Thank You, Everyone! Note that the OP has been updated to contain the list of ideas submitted to this thread. Thank You for numerous submissions and keeping this thread on track.
The list shall be updated every time an idea comes up. We just might make a change We would like to see.

Only if you get hired into Frontier and put in charge of this - BUT you might inspire someone there to "improve" things, though honestly, I wouldn't hold your breath. I mean I wouldn't prevent you from inhaling or exhaling, that would be mean. Adam did make their current stance pretty clear though - they've no intention of bringing back ADS type functionality, but there are plenty of other areas for improvement in the current system.
 
What I would like to see:

1.) FSS an overlay in cockpit or displayed on the HUD or at least ....
2.) FSS Spectrum on HUD. Let me decide if the system is interesting to scan further without jumping in and out.
3.) FSS functional at speeds above idle.
4.) Longer range to the chevron guidance for a tuned-in signal. The scanner obviously knows what vector the signal comes from.
5.) Bio / Geo sites indicated on the system map so I don't have to write down bodies to go back to later.
6.) Bio / Geo indication only in FSS maybe with a magnitude (high / med / low), DSS shows how many and where. Currently it's non-nonsensical.
 
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