Ships Fuel tanks in exploring?

[StiTch]

Hi folks

So I'm taking a break from my usual mix of PP and smacking the living daylights out of other ships to try another side of ED - exploring.

I want to go see the sights properly and get as far away from the bubble as I can. I've built a lovely ship and forked out on a paint job for them screenshots (I have no qualms paying to support FD ) but have a query for the hardcore explorers out there.

Internal slot extra fuel tanks. Why are these not seen on loadouts for exploring? Given fuel scoops mean we can refuel at any appropriate star, it means exploration is going to hit a bottleneck at one of two points: either stretches of star systems with no refuellable star, or jumps where the range exceeds what your ship is capable of.

I'll be taking some materials with me so I can boost FSD range if needed but my question is basically which of the above bottlenecks is more prevalent. If it's more likely I'll hit patches of systems with no KGBFOAM stars then surely fuel tanks make sense given you're dropping 1 or 2 LY range; in this case, I'd drop one or two of my AFMUs in there for moar fuel.

If fuel capacity isn't an issue and you're more likely to hit jump ranges you can't pull off, I'll leave the AFMUs I have in there.

Your experiences are appreciated.

 

[777Driver]

Galaxy map route plotting always calculates with max fuel onboard, extra tanks will reduce your jump capability with auto plotting. Personally I don't see it as an issue, depending on the ship and journey I'll take extra tanks.

If you have Horizons you don't really need multiple AFMU's, you can refill from materials on planets, in the unlikely event your AFMU gets destroyed, you can still reboot it back to a functional state. With that in mind, AFMU's don't have any weight for some strange reason, so if you have spare slots you may as well take them.

 

[StiTch]

Galaxy map route plotting always calculates with max fuel onboard, extra tanks will reduce your jump capability with auto plotting. Personally I don't see it as an issue, depending on the ship and journey I'll take extra tanks.

If you have Horizons you don't really need multiple AFMU's, you can refill from materials on planets, in the unlikely event your AFMU gets destroyed, you can still reboot it back to a functional state. With that in mind, AFMU's don't have any weight for some strange reason, so if you have spare slots you may as well take them.

Thanks for the tip

I've been really trying to push towards being light as possible, hence the multiple AFMUs and I have a decent store of FSD materials and AFMU replenishment materials saved up. Hopefully that means I can save the weight a vehicle hangar has, but it's been a real debate because I want to enjoy the planets out there and get some buggy shots, and as you've mentioned being able to farm materials in the void can't be a bad thing.

I did hear they're planning to correct AFMUs having 0 weight. But I swear, if I get out there past a few awkward jumps and they carry out the update just as I want to head back and can't make the long jumps any more...

 

[Zebaoth]

As far as I know there's no downside to fill empty internals with fuel tanks.
They have no weight when empty and don't use any power.
I guess it will even out, you need to fuel scoop anyway, no difference if you scoop every 200Ly for 35 seconds (6A) with a 32t tank,
or every 800Ly for 3 minutes (5A) with ~210t tanks.

Just rough estimates though.

 

[StiTch]

As far as I know there's no downside to fill empty internals with fuel tanks.
They have no weight when empty and don't use any power.
I guess it will even out, you need to fuel scoop anyway, no difference if you scoop every 200Ly for 35 seconds (6A) with a 32t tank,
or every 800Ly for 3 minutes (5A) with ~210t tanks.

Just rough estimates though.

You make an excellent point about them being weightless when empty. If I hit that awks jump I could just jump in a circle until I've burned the extra weight (I hear some people try this out of game too...)

What I am really looking to do is combat whatever is going to halt me in my tracks out in the void. I will likely do a refuel little and often to keep them topped up, but I want to know what's gonna stop me hitting that nebula or star system I want to get in for a screenshot, and if I am likely to find stretches where KGBFOAM stars are scarce the extra tanks make sense.

 

[777Driver]

Thanks for the tip

I've been really trying to push towards being light as possible, hence the multiple AFMUs and I have a decent store of FSD materials and AFMU replenishment materials saved up. Hopefully that means I can save the weight a vehicle hangar has, but it's been a real debate because I want to enjoy the planets out there and get some buggy shots, and as you've mentioned being able to farm materials in the void can't be a bad thing.

I did hear they're planning to correct AFMUs having 0 weight. But I swear, if I get out there past a few awkward jumps and they carry out the update just as I want to head back and can't make the long jumps any more...

Don't worry, one of the devs confirmed they won't be updating the AFMU to have mass. I would recommend taking an SRV with you, the weight difference is small.

What ship and build are you planning on?

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As far as I know there's no downside to fill empty internals with fuel tanks.

As mentioned, the downside is route plotting. The route plotter will calculate as if the ship is full of fuel. Only single jumps are calculated on actual fuel load.

 

[GammaZ]

As far as I know there's no downside to fill empty internals with fuel tanks.
They have no weight when empty and don't use any power.
I guess it will even out, you need to fuel scoop anyway, no difference if you scoop every 200Ly for 35 seconds (6A) with a 32t tank,
or every 800Ly for 3 minutes (5A) with ~210t tanks.

Just rough estimates though.

There is one, mentioned above. They reduce the range rote plotter uses. And personally i do not use them for this particular reason. Plotting all jumps manually is too slow/tedious, and if you carry extra empty tanks without it you range is effectively reduced to those with all tanks full.
Also they are only needed in very specific places/situations, in most cases 5-6 max range jumps typical exploration ship has with stock tank are more than enough.

 

[StiTch]

Don't worry, one of the devs confirmed they won't be updating the AFMU to have mass. I would recommend taking an SRV with you, the weight difference is small.

What ship and build are you planning on?

*phew*

I have two options. I have a DBE I've already built because I adore the DB series; cool running, I love the look, even the DBE feels nimble with FA off and I love the cockpit view. Also, they look wicked in the chrome finish and when stripped down the jump range is about three quarters of a light year less than my Asp.

But...if I get out there and find that the jump range doesn't cut it, I'll smuggle for a few days and build an exploring annie.

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There is one, mentioned above. They reduce the range rote plotter uses. And personally i do not use them for this particular reason. Plotting all jumps manually is too slow/tedious, and if you carry extra empty tanks without it you range is effectively reduced to those with all tanks full.
Also they are only needed in very specific places/situations, in most cases 5-6 max range jumps typical exploration ship has with stock tank are more than enough.

Isn't there a feature in the plotter that lets you adjust the range for a certain amount of fuel weight?

 

[GammaZ]

...
Isn't there a feature in the plotter that lets you adjust the range for a certain amount of fuel weight?

For certain amount of cargo only, not fuel...
And because of it weirdly cargo racks may be usefull in extra internals, because they allow you to control jump range route plotter use.

 

[Zebaoth]

As mentioned, the downside is route plotting. The route plotter will calculate as if the ship is full of fuel. Only single jumps are calculated on actual fuel load.

Weird, last time I tried I got different routes.
Calculated a route, bought fuel tank, calculated again and got the same route since the additional fuel tank was empty.
Bought 100% fuel, calculated again, now the route changed slightly due to the fuel tank being filled up.
Or did you mean something different?

 

[777Driver]

Weird, last time I tried I got different routes.
Calculated a route, bought fuel tank, calculated again and got the same route since the additional fuel tank was empty.
Bought 100% fuel, calculated again, now the route changed slightly due to the fuel tank being filled up.
Or did you mean something different?

Actual fuel tank load makes zero difference to auto route plotting, it always plots based on maximum fuel load. Here's an extreme example, one of my T9's is used for long range runs to Sirius corp stations. The ship has a 100 tonne tank.

Route from Diaguandri to Sothis 402LY

19 tonnes of fuel in the tank - 36 Jumps

100 tonnes of fuel in the tank - 36 jumps (same route)

Downgraded tank to stock 64 tonnes - 34 jumps (slightly different route).

The galaxy map plotter only factors current fuel load when you do single jumps.

 

[StiTch]

Actual fuel tank load makes zero difference to auto route plotting, it always plots based on maximum fuel load. Here's an extreme example, one of my T9's is used for long range runs to Sirius corp stations. The ship has a 100 tonne tank.

Route from Diaguandri to Sothis 402LY

19 tonnes of fuel in the tank - 36 Jumps

100 tonnes of fuel in the tank - 36 jumps (same route)

Downgraded tank to stock 64 tonnes - 34 jumps (slightly different route).

The galaxy map plotter only factors current fuel load when you do single jumps.

Information backed up with statistics...I'd rep you again if I could

So the additional fuel tank(s) will potentially make the journey longer because in the future, apparently computers can't take into account that your mass will decrease as you use fuel.

*sigh*

I'll probably take a vehicle hangar with me and leave out the extra fuel tanks.

Thanks for the help folks

 

[777Driver]

So the additional fuel tank(s) will potentially make the journey longer because in the future, apparently computers can't take into account that your mass will decrease as you use fuel.
)

I guess it would be a pain if the route plotter factored in fuel burn on long routes, you couldn't scoop whilst flying the route, any weight changes would cause some jumps to be unobtainable. Using max fuel weight always ensures the route will be valid.

Still, extra tanks won't make that much of a difference in trip time, from my example an extra 36 tonnes of fuel only resulted in an extra 2 jumps (less than a minute flying) The bonus I receive from less scoop time balances it out.

 

[StiTch]

I guess it would be a pain if the route plotter factored in fuel burn on long routes, you couldn't scoop whilst flying the route, any weight changes would cause some jumps to be unobtainable. Using max fuel weight always ensures the route will be valid.

Still, extra tanks won't make that much of a difference in trip time, from my example an extra 36 tonnes of fuel only resulted in an extra 2 jumps (less than a minute flying) The bonus I receive from less scoop time balances it out.

Fair point. I'm planning to traverse some fair distances, and the real query behind this post is effectively aimed at whether running out of fuel and KGBFOAM stars is actually a frequent issue. Otherwise the extra jumps are going to add up over time.

If I want to keep the DBE going I only have one slot I can galvanise anyway from the second AFMU, which I'll probably trash for the vehicle hangar.

I always did think the internal space of a DBE is pretty stingy for an explorer. If they weren't so cool running I wouldn't have considered it for exploring, but I can get my standard heat level so low that small but frequent refuelling works wonders and of the couple of incidences I've had with binary star collisions the heat damage was respectably lower than my asp.

 

[afreeflyingsoul]

From personal experience there will always a scoopable star within jumping distance if you pay attention to your route. The reason for a second AFMU's is the ability to repair your primary AFMU.

 

[BostromNZ]

the real query behind this post is effectively aimed at whether running out of fuel and KGBFOAM stars is actually a frequent issue.

There will always be a scoopable star nearby. When CMDRs run out of fuel because they've hit a patch of brown dwarfs or similar, it's only because they had their route set on fastest, didn't check their fuel and just kept jumping - it's a bit of a rookie mistake. If you look at the galaxy map there will always be a star nearby that you can refuel at, you might just need to re-plot your course. You can make a lot of jumps if they're only very short.

 

[Satsuma]

+1 to "there's always a scoopable star nearby"

My current Asp, with the full-size fuel tank, gets almost 7 full-range jumps to the tank. I thought about dropping down to a half-size tank for Distant Worlds, which would have given me 3.5 full-range jumps to a tank and boosted my full-tank range from 33 to 34.5 light years, but I chickened out at the last minute. In retrospect, I should have done so. I've hit a few stretches of 2-3 unscoopable stars, but never ran into anything that would have dinged me with a half-size tank. When I finally do return to the bubble, that's going to be the first change I make.

3.5 full jumps is probably the bare minimum I'd take, though. Some people explore with setups that let them get 2 jumps before they need to refuel, and to me the extended jump range isn't worth the number of times I'd have to go "Crap", open the galaxy map, and make sure I get to a scoopable star. Anything over 5 full jumps is probably overkill for a ship with a fuel scoop.

 

[StiTch]

Thanks folks, rep where rep is due!

I'll leave the extra fuel tank at home and take a vehicle hangar...get some snazzy screenshots, collect materials on the run, and find the most outrageous mountain possible to race down at full pelt.

Now just to see if I make FD give the DBE some better internals...

...one can dream.

 

[goemon]

Thanks folks, rep where rep is due!

I'll leave the extra fuel tank at home and take a vehicle hangar...get some snazzy screenshots, collect materials on the run, and find the most outrageous mountain possible to race down at full pelt.

Now just to see if I make FD give the DBE some better internals...

...one can dream.

concerning the DBE - depends how deepspace you want to go, but for 50 k ly you won't miss an AFMU.

i see most things covered on fueltank, i just want to add: the important number is "number of jumps on a full tank".

that's 6.4 on a DBE or ASP with standard fueltank, and 4 on an anaconda.

for me personally 4,5 is comfortable, 4 is okay, 3,2 is racing. so before srv i reduced fueltanksize on my Asp to 20 T (16+4). i heard some buckyballers went with 1,6 ...

 

[StiTch]

concerning the DBE - depends how deepspace you want to go, but for 50 k ly you won't miss an AFMU.

i see most things covered on fueltank, i just want to add: the important number is "number of jumps on a full tank".

that's 6.4 on a DBE or ASP with standard fueltank, and 4 on an anaconda.

for me personally 4,5 is comfortable, 4 is okay, 3,2 is racing. so before srv i reduced fueltanksize on my Asp to 20 T (16+4). i heard some buckyballers went with 1,6 ...

I was thinking of going quite far out - in for a penny and all that. I have no shield because from what I've done so far it's just a heat generator out in the void, so I have room for the AFMU and vehicle hangar. I won't have two AFMUs but I'm uber careful and have a macro set that kills my throttle speed once I am in frame shift, so no sleepy attempts to cuddle stars. Binary star systems...well...I'll keep an eye out for them. They haven't actually proven that bad so far.

I guess I'll see some of you out of the bubble-or not