Game design getting silly now

Space Dandy

Space Dandy
excalibus said:
In a sandbox environment, I have the freedom to make and destroy things in an unscripted way, and I can interact with things in the game world without needing scripted events. (Second Life is a perfect example of a pure sandbox environment)

In ED, I cannot build things (beyond reputation with factions), I cannot make things (beyond having engineers modify my weapons) and I cannot interact with the environment in un-scripted ways. Yes I know that we do not follow a linear story line and that we can choose which factions to support or oppose etc and that the crafting engineers do for us allows us to modify our ships. But I cannot, for example, buy a ship and strap 3 whopping huge engines and a massive fuel tank to it and get 500LY jump range can I?

Ed does not have a 'linear' story path but does have multiple stories running through the underlying storyline of the galaxy, we are not forced to participate in the storylines or events put up to advance those storylines. This would, to me, suggest that ED is an Open World type of game, where you can go anywhere you like, and within the constraints of the games mechanics interact with the environment should you choose to do so, and you can participate in the underlying stories if you so choose to do so...

The 'content' of the game is still being developed and added to all the time and some player stories get added as well which indicates that Frontier Developments encourage the community to interaction and communicate with the developers with regards to their own story lines to some extent.

On the whole ED is an open world game, with some subset components of linear and sandbox type games but not in any significant way compared to the open world nature of the game.
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Actually "open world" traditionally means there's no invisible walls and loading screens. You can run from one end of the world to the other with no interruptions.

In ED you cannot do this, the game isn't really "open world" you cannot point towards a star set your ship that way and leave for a week and come back and have it reach that star so to speak. In ED the loading screens are hidden by clever splash screens. It is open world in the sense though that you can go anywhere, except places that need a permit, at any time.

ED in essence has open open world elements and sandbox elements but is more a combination of the two. You have no main quest line you MUST DO IN ORDER you can go where you want and start playing how you want, well mostly, but it does have limitations and has some blocked off areas you must unlock in certain ways.

A sandbox can have crafting or not but its not a requirement just as they can add "missions" and still have it be a sandbox.
 
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Jex =TE=

Banned
J
dumbo said:
Skyrim is an open-world game.
- it has sandbox elements (you can freely wander around, explore, attack something at random, ignore all the directed elements and roleplay being a wolf-hunter or something).
- it also has 'directed' elements (the main story line, and all of the quests).
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That describes ED. We've already gone over how Minecraft and 7 Days to Die are sandbox games of which ED doesn't even come close. So if ED is a sandbox game, what is Minecraft?
 
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dumbo

D
Jex =TE= said:
That describes ED. We've already gone over how Minecraft and 7 Days to Die are sandbox games of which ED doesn't even come close. So if ED is a sandbox game, what is Minecraft?
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Minecraft is a creative sandbox, something that ED is not. [I've never played the other game /shrug]


If you're interested in the topic - there's an article on gamasutra that is a bit wordy, but covers the various aspects of 'sandbox', and mentions the original elite on page 2...

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/132470/the_history_and_theory_of_sandbox_.php
 

Jex =TE=

Banned
J
dumbo said:
Minecraft is a creative sandbox, something that ED is not. [I've never played the other game /shrug]


If you're interested in the topic - there's an article on gamasutra that is a bit wordy, but covers the various aspects of 'sandbox', and mentions the original elite on page 2...

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/132470/the_history_and_theory_of_sandbox_.php
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Not really. I've been gaming long enough to know what a sandbox game is and what an open world game is which ED is clearly the latter. Until today, I'd not heard about "creative sandbox games"

I'll add a little more here. In a sandbox you "create" things with sand. What in ED can you create?
 
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frostypaw

frostypaw
Space Dandy said:
https://www.techopedia.com/definition/3952/sandbox-gaming
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They don't seem to have a page for Open World Gaming

I'd say the defining line is being able to change the world through building and creating, not just interacting with the story/missions/npcs - Elite is open world.
Sandbox games you can build new things and change stuff through other tools and it should be persistent. I'm curious if terrain altered in NMS is at all persistent or if it's all gone when you take off and land again. The data requirements would be mental
 

dynamicbob

Banned
D
all fdev need to do is quickly get hype about 2.2 out, with passanger missions we need background sim changes ( dynamic procedureal things that change npc system populations and expand new colonies etc) that will give players the feeling of changing the game world, give more meaning to the grind if that is the way forward make it seem less grindy
 

Delilah

D
thorn- said:
For starts: I'm not 13 Years old... I'm actually older than you.

1. Powerplays: If you can't handle the heat that factions bring (and they do), then unpledge. Problem mostly solved.
2. Horizons: I don't like driving the SRV. I mostly avoid it. But if you want what's on the surface, you have to do what's required.
3. Engineers: You don't have to get Eng Mods. But if you want them, you have to do what's required.

I hate travelling to a system more than 25 LY away. It bores the hell out of me. Jump, scoop... move away, cool down... scoop... move away... scoop... ok, now I can jump. Repeat.

I can stay in a 2-3 system area and avoid that. Totally my choice. Also means I have to live without whatever rewards lie outside that area.

Can't get better at combat? Sure you can... well, most people can. You say your combat rank is Expert - well, obviously you've spent some time shooting things. Unfortunately, they didn't shoot back much. Now they do.

(I went after a CMDR last week ranked Deadly in a Python. Believe me, there was nothing Deadly about him at all. Don't confuse your combat RANK with your combat ABILITY.)

Elite is not Minecraft - you don't just walk around, stack some legos. Some people just aren't good at driving sims - well, then... I suppose you won't like a driving sim. I'm not saying that as an insult; I'm just pointing out that the game now takes SKILL and EFFORT... and for several months, it really didn't take much of either. It's a lot more interesting now.
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Thorn, I mean you no personal disrespect, but this was a remarkably obtuse reply. You are ignoring the meaning of the OP, and essentially saying suck it up, eat the grind, git gud. Hardly a reflective much less nuanced position to take.

The OP reminds us that risk and reward is also balanced by return on investment as well as personal choices. Elite was billed as a cosmos, a space simulator when a variety of professions were opened to pilots. As of today it seems to be more like a combat simulator with some other stuff. To demand of others that their choice is to be drones in the grind misses the responsibility of Frontier to structure an engaging, interactive, and social cosmos.
 

SeeZaa

SeeZaa
dumbo said:
A sandbox is simply undirected gameplay. The only requirement is that the player isn't told to do something - there is no direction (or director). But there is no requirement that you must be able to build/destroy in a sandbox game.
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sandbox games are named such because they are the game world version of this..
kidkraft-backyard-sandbox.jpg
an environment in which you can repeatedly create, modify and destroy.. such as minecraft or starcraft.

that isn't an opinion, or an interpretation.. it is exactly what it is.
 
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dumbo

D
SeeZaa said:
an environment in which you can repeatedly create, modify and destroy.. such as minecraft or starcraft.

that isn't an opinion, or an interpretation.. it is exactly what it is.
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Here's the wikipedia page on open world...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_world

Hunter (1991) has been described as the first sandbox game to feature full 3D, third-person graphics.
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[Shenmue...]'s large interactive environments, wealth of options, level of detail and the scope of its urban sandbox exploration has been compared to later sandbox games like Grand Theft Auto III and its sequels, Sega's own Yakuza series, Fallout 3, and Deadly Premonition.
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After the releases of Crackdown, Infamous and Prototype,some open world games have adopted the trope of super powers used in combat and traversal.Other examples of such games include Gravity Rush, Saints Row IV and Sunset Overdrive. A term for such games made popular by Ben Croshaw is ''Superhero sandbox''.
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I've linked gamasutras discussion of sandbox, but here's wikipedia's definition and whatever 'quora' is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_video_game_terms#Sandbox_game
https://www.quora.com/What-does-the-term-sandbox-game-mean

Some people are adding their own preconceptions to the term, but sandbox does not require building. Elite (and Elite Dangerous) are considered sandbox games.
 

Jex =TE=

Banned
J
Space Dandy said:
https://www.techopedia.com/definition/3952/sandbox-gaming
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Yes, yes very good so they're wrong too. It's demonstrably incorrect when you think about it. What is a sandbox? It's a box of sand. What do you do in it? You make stuff out of the sand. ED is a sandbox with all the sand glued together so you can't do a thing with it but then they have some games in it too like putting different shaped blocks through the same shaped holes, repeatedly, over and over. There's one game where you pull a caterpillar from on end of the box to the other and then you go back again and do that another thousand times ;)

There's no sand in ED's sandbox hence it is not a sandbox.

Edit: Wait, did you even read this?

A sandbox is a style of game in which minimal character limitations are placed on the gamer, allowing the gamer to roam and change a virtual world at will.
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dumbo said:
Here's the wikipedia page on open world...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_world





I've linked gamasutras discussion of sandbox, but here's wikipedia's definition and whatever 'quora' is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glossary_of_video_game_terms#Sandbox_game
https://www.quora.com/What-does-the-term-sandbox-game-mean

Some people are adding their own preconceptions to the term, but sandbox does not require building. Elite (and Elite Dangerous) are considered sandbox games.
Click to expand...

Yes it does require building otherwise why call it a sandbox - the whole point of a sandbox is to build! Link all you want - we know what a sandbox is and you seem to have an issue grasping this simple concept.
 
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JughedJones

JughedJones
Jex =TE= said:
Yes, yes very good so they're wrong too. It's demonstrably incorrect when you think about it. What is a sandbox? It's a box of sand. What do you do in it? You make stuff out of the sand. ED is a sandbox with all the sand glued together so you can't do a thing with it but then they have some games in it too like putting different shaped blocks through the same shaped holes, repeatedly, over and over. There's one game where you pull a caterpillar from on end of the box to the other and then you go back again and do that another thousand times ;)

There's no sand in ED's sandbox hence it is not a sandbox.

Edit: Wait, did you even read this?



- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -



Yes it does require building otherwise why call it a sandbox - the whole point of a sandbox is to build! Link all you want - we know what a sandbox is and you seem to have an issue grasping this simple concept.
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Are you saying you don't enjoy the game?
 

RandomGun

RandomGun
Jex =TE= said:
Yes, yes very good so they're wrong too. It's demonstrably incorrect when you think about it.
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This is where you got it wrong. Thinking of a word that is used figuratively does not reveal its meaning. Words get their meaning only by their usage in certain context. The word sandbox in the context of gaming has traditionally not been used to describe creative build-destroy games but simply do-whatever-you-want games (like Elite).

Now, the meaning of words do change. If people start to think (as you suggest) and start to use sandbox in a more logical and restrictive sense of creative build-destroy games then the word will gain that meaning too. In this case the traditional meaning does not disappear but the word simply becomes ambiguous.
 
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