Game is in future.. features are set in the past, fix it or lose players

[Gelbrock]

In the original game, the back of the instruction book had several pages set out so you could write down details like the system, cargo purchased, prices etc.... Some sort of record on board would be nice. If not Ill just resort to the old pencil and pad We have at least a few seconds usually during each jump anyway. Thats usually the time I use for quality family moments but Im happy to sacrifice it if notes need to be taken....

 

[RCKJD]

I firmly believe the game would be more fun for me if it had a captains log that detailed places we'd been, what we'd purchased for how much money, maybe other market information or maybe not.

The original Elite actually had that. It was printed in the back of the manual and you were expressly permitted to create photocopies of this.

ETA: Oh phooey, got spanked.

 

[Hermit]

Everyone of us.

Nope, you don't speak for me either.
-
I have a feeling the game you're after won't be out for another couple of years.

 

[Diziet Sma]

I then want to be able to buy my own star (or system) and place my own space stations, which create their own trade routes, that I get a profit from. That is the kind of game players want.

First it's "I want", and then you go and somehow extrapolate that into what everyone wants? Sorry, but you don't speak for the rest of us. And speaking for myself (and quite a few others whom I've discussed similar themes with on other forums), I can't imagine anything more BORING than being the glorified manager of some petty trading empire.. becoming some bureaucratic number cruncher, to generate an obscene amount of income that I can point to and brag about, without really being able to do much with it? That's fun? Not to many of us, it isn't.. the world already has enough useless parasites in it, getting richer simply by virtue of being rich, rather than actually producing anything of value. Why on earth would I want to bring that element into my game, somewhere I go to so as to escape from dealing with bottom-feeding scum like that?

If that kind of thing floats your boat, then there are more than enough of such boring (to me, at least) games out there already, that you could be playing.. yet you demand that a game which I've loved for decades as-is, also be corrupted with such crud? Go away. Play your other "I'm a mega-manager-parasite" games instead.

What on earth would be the point of the game if some automated clearing house with access to perfect data arbitraged away all the profit margin with a highly efficient trading network?

There would be no role for the independent traders, and no game.

Thank you. My point exactly.

Lets actually think about this for a second, no seriously, think physics.

First of all with regard to "looking up prices in one place before going there", yes you are correct we CAN do that in the present, on a planet that is extremely tiny in the scope of the galaxy. I want you to think of how information, and thus matter actually moves:

Assume there is an "internet" in the year 3300. Assume we could transmit information from computer to computer. That's all well and good, but even at the fastest possible speed (no loss in bandwidth) for this information to travel as electricity it would still be slower than the speed of light. Warp drives/hyper drives in ships act by moving space itself around the ship, the ship itself actually never has to physically move. There is no way to speed up light, electricity, energy, or any other kind of information without forcing to to stop playing by the rules of physics. Unless you somehow found a way to open predictable wormholes to send information through.
Even if you WANT to transmit a signal, if you're sending it from even the distance between our sun and the planet Earth (tiny distance in the scale of our game) it would take over 8 minutes for that information to get there.

I'm sorry if this game is too real for you, and I'm sorry if you don't like the idea of a dystopian future, but the game plays by the rules of physics, it logically makes sense. I prefer this to EVE where everything is available in real time within a moment, despite the fact that communicating with a ship at the other end of a system should take minutes to hours on the short end, and much longer if you used radio waves for the communication.

Precisely.

I am quite sure they intend to release the game they want to and not the game that everyone wants.

So now you too, presume to speak for all of us? You, in your godlike splendour, know for a fact that "everyone" wants what you want? To borrow a line from earlier in this discussion, get a grip.

But this is not really stars spread out over billions of light years of space, its a single game on a server.

And that's enough justification to make the entire trading system utterly unrealistic? (See Ooccoo's post above) You seem to want everything handed to you on a platter without your having to think about anything. Stop being so damn lazy.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

I always chuckle whenever I see post titles like "You must have this, or else you lose players/or else this game will fail!!!"

Back in 1984, everyone else was following market trends in games ("must have this or else the game will fail/lose players!!!!!") - players have 3 lives, the game has numerous levels, and a high score table. Elite came along, WITHOUT those.

Guess what happened?

indeed, it is my pet hate as well....... I am also a backer of the oculus rift, and that has the "you must do X or the rift will fail" threads.

I think the last one I read was, the oculus rift must replace games consoles or it will fail!!!!

I guess that is the thing with forums, you always seem to see the 2 extremes, people who are biased towards something (of which I include myself) and then the people who dislike something and just come in to rant about it.

Much like trip advisor reviews I always think the best bet is to ignore the top 10% of people loving something and the bottom 10% of the people who dislike them....... I suspect the vast majority of people (that will ever remotely be interested in this game - as I think we call all admit this game is not for everyone) will conclude that ED has brilliant potential and at its core gets most things right, but that there is still work to be done to fix a few issues and to flesh it out.

Hell, I reckon if you asked DB he would probably admit the same thing!.

 

[Robert Maynard]

I guess that is the thing with forums, you always seem to see the 2 extremes, people who are biased towards something (of which I include myself) and then the people who dislike something and just come in to rant about it.

There's a huge difference between being consciously biased and unconsciously extreme....

 

[FoxTwo]

I am quite sure they intend to release the game they want to and not the game that everyone wants.

Oh I sure hope so!

Because "everyone" doesn't know what they want, until they get something really new, really cool, really different from everything else... then this is the new thing that "everyone" wants.

RL example (other than 1984 Elite) - iPhone. Before iPhone came along, "everyone" wanted a Nokia phone.

 

[Vasious]

Beside the Don't presume to speak for me statement, as I am happy with the vision FDev has
.
Why would you not want to know supply and demand?

 

[Brusilov]

I know when all the haters migrated back to the games (they want ED to become) ill be right here enjoying exploring ED's milky way

 

[ModZero]

Before iPhone came along, "everyone" wanted a Nokia phone.

. In fact everyone was trying to fix smartphones.

Because "everyone" doesn't know what they want, until they get something really new, really cool, really different from everything else...

You do realize that those other games exist? So many of the limitations you speak about pretty much have to be introduced intentionally, because from the database perspective it really doesn't matter in which system the market is. But gameplay isn't only about empowering you, but also about limiting you. Even EVE Online limits how much of the market you can see, and requires extensive (and exploitable) cooperation between players to improve on that. And they pretty much have all the UI work they'd need for you to be able to see everything. But designers decided that a perfectly transparent market would be boring to play in.

 

[KJCrow]

Yes the game is set in the future... but let us look at other fictional precedents that may be valid -
=
Firefly/ Serenity - (2500ad-ish)
Actually in my opinion a fairly close representation of the mentality that we should be adopting (just minus the crew for now). 500 years in the future and recovering from a bitter civil war in a distant part of the galaxy where the remnants of mankind have settled after using up all the available resources on Earth. One Man, One Ship on the frontiers of space, taking jobs and making trades as they go and never exactly knowing where they will get a good profit unless they have dealt with people before, or have been given the contact. Even Inara was unable to arrange business unless they were already in range or by a prior arrangement.
=
Star Trek - All of them but most specifically Voyager
An entire series based on a lost Spaceship trying to get home that had no way of communicating with their base of operations for at least a couple of seasons. Even then the contact was initiated from the Federation that was drawing on more power than the USS Voyager could provide by itself to send the signals, and after all of that, they were limited in the amount of data they could send over that distance before the signal was lost. Would have saved 7 seasons worth of air time if they had arrived in the Delta quadrant and Janeway had just been able to get online and say 'Hey, we are the other side of the galaxy... how much will it cost to ship me some coffee?'
=
Battlestar Gallactica -
Ok set in the past but with a technologically superior group of ancestors on their way to earth - Limited computer assistance in flying and plotting the courses of ships beyond one jump because of the way the Cylons had already screwed them over. On the communication front, between ships in close proximity, fine... but then there is the whole matter of the Pegasus... another Battlestar, unable to communicate until they were in range... not forgetting the number of times that the Recon teams could not deliver their findings until they were in the same system?
+
As for the game galaxy?... it will take you less time to fly to a system, land, check the prices and move on, than it would to wait for the data to come to you. The Trade Map on the galaxy map shows you the most common flow of goods to give you a rough idea, but this is also going to be effected by the NPC trade ships that are shifting goods based on a Planets Supply and Demand, rather than just a Players motivation on 'what is going to give me the most profit?' This is the point of us being given Supply/ Demand Data... why would you want to load up with 100 tons of cargo to take to a planet if you have no idea if there is any actual demand for it? (I know the analogy is weak but this is like saying you would take 100 tons of Animal Meat to a Vegetarian Society and hope you would make a profit... trust me, the smell of a bacon sandwich is only going to convert 30% of vegetarians back at the most!) ... ok, maybe it would be nice to arrive in a system, check the prices on your cargo and then decide if you are going to sell there or move on... maybe this 'marketing computer' could replace another module? Ohh and you have to drop out of Supercruise at a Nav Beacon to actually relay the signal to the Local Space Station and therefore run the risk of ambush?
+
As for the walking around stations, planetary landings and everything else, this is in the future and FD have stated time and again, The launch is just the start and that they operate under the policy 'If we are going to do something, then we will do it properly' so yes, the chance of your fishing and bear hunting fantasies being fulfilled is real, but Soon(tm). On November 22nd the Galaxy opens for business... enjoy the ride and wait to see what is around the corner, and have faith that FD will deliver. Some of us have already waited 30 years for this, a few more months as they iron out the kinks is nothing compared to that.

 

[Satanski]

I will rather play DB vision then another mass market medicority which would the game become if they made a game most people want.
Besides, OP, why the hell you say what "everyone of us" want? Who are you again?

 

[Theodrid]

I've posted this in similar threads but will post again :-

Sure, in year 3300 we will probably be able to sit in a space station, view the galactic internet, order what we/the station/system we are in needs, sit back, and wait for the goods to be delivered. We can then, (as the middle man), sell them on at a profit having never left the station. You want to go shoot stuff?, sure, get your unmanned drone fighter ship, fly it off into the galaxy and shoot 'til your hearts content, all from the safety of the space station. You want to mine?, sure, hire/charter a mining ship or drone, send them off to mine for you, play middle man again and sell the ores, all without leaving your comfortable LazyBoy 3000 chair on the station.

So that is probably what we will be able to do in 3300, so based on that, lets make the game that way, but wait, suddenly we have zero game play and we are sitting in a station making orders, flying drones and chartering ships, and some people think supercruise is tedious........

 

[FoxTwo]

You do realize that those other games exist?

Of course.

So why should ED become "another one of these existing games"?

 

[Iskariot]

In the PRESENT, we can check online for current prices of commodities and then compare that with other places. We can buy at one place, and then get it sold at another BEFORE going there (example: a long haul trucker is not going to pick up a load and then travel across country checking prices, he knows that BEFORE loading).

That is a pointless comparison.
You are right about that we can compare prices on this planet we live on.
But do you know the current price of beer on Keppler 61-B ?

On a serious note: What you basically are asking for is a trading mechanism that is without risk.
I feel the current information we get is enough to make good estimates of profitability without removing the risk.
Risk it what makes it exiting. There must be risk. Nevertheless you can already minimize that risk with the information you can gather from the trading map.

I do feel we could use a few enhancements:

I would like to tap into a station's commodity market systems when I am outside the station for example, within comms range. But I would not like that to be for free.
Perhaps the station could ask a fee for that, or perhaps I need to buy an upgrade to my comms software first, or perhaps I need to be on friendly terms with the station (green) first. Or perhaps all of the above, which is what I would prefer.

I also would like to be able to tap into the station's shipyard from outside the station, within comms range, to get info on available ships, modules, weapons and prices. If I see something to my liking I would like to be able to reserve it, so when I decide to actually dock these new ship(s), module(s), or weapon(s) is/are there waiting for me.

 

[ModZero]

So why should ED become "another one of these existing games"?

I don't know, you're the one asking for it.

I was pointing out that your iPhone argument doesn't apply, both because you misunderstand the iPhone situation (no, it wasn't a surprise to anyone outside of PC Magazine that the touchscreen was successful, but nobody got it working well before), and because you're not demanding features that are particularly novel. AFAIR even the old elites had such features, so no, it's not the case of us thinking we don't "need" a feature only because we've never seen it. In fact, most of us deal with such a feature in our everyday lives.

If you want a modern supply chain management game, I would recommend Capitalism II. Note that you don't get to drive a truck around in it. You do get to drive a truck around in ETS2, which is far closer to E that one might think

 

[Spectre Alpha]

Originally Posted by Spectre Alpha View Post

I am quite sure they intend to release the game they want to and not the game that everyone wants.

So now you too, presume to speak for all of us? You, in your godlike splendour, know for a fact that "everyone" wants what you want? To borrow a line from earlier in this discussion, get a grip.

lol, no silly, that is a ridiculous idea, I am speaking for my wife, 2 kids and myself, my neighbors also feel the game is lacking, but I won't speak for them. I am also saying that whatever is done, it will not be the game everyone wants as we all want different things, some expect it to be in line with other games at release, and those that played the old elite know that it will be limited in scope and are ok with that fact.