I don't care if Frontier adds Cetaceans. I actually hope they do. Planet Zoo as stated earlier is a glorified train set. I personally am not 100% with the way cetaceans are handled in most captive situations. However, I want to role play creating a facility that does it the right way or a rehabilitation facility. I was happy to see the cetacean mods. These are potentially the only opportunity I have to create the dream project I wanted of a massive mega zoo with marine life and common zoo animals. It gives me a chance to re-create the beautiful parks I created in my childhood with ZT2. My experience playing the game matters. If I want to download cetaceans or want them added officially in my game.... who am I harming?.... It's a game and I have my own reasons for playing. Let people enjoy things.
Game mods defying Frontier and modern Zoological/Animal activist standards on keeping animals
- Thread starter jforce91
- Start date
My bad, Leaf. I thought only Nick and AD model were involved. Keep doing what you're doing!!I appreciate the sentiment, but allow me just to restate everything I've tried saying before in a more mellow attitude.
I want to first draw my appreciation towards Heather for concealing my identity, but I am more than happy to bring this to the public forum. Yes, I am one of the masterminds behind the Orca (Orcinus orca) being brought into the game of Planet Zoo. Coming a long way since playing Zoo Tycoon, Zoo Tycoon 2, as well as other Zoo and Animal Simulators. I am proud of the work required to get the Orca into the game. It is not the best given the limitations of the game and the engine, but it looks beautiful swimming around in the seas that I provide it ingame. (And yeah @random goat, I assisted in the coding for it, giving it some nice space requirements if I do say so myself)
I understand there is conservation etiquette behind the Orca being reduced to captivity. I personally am not a fan of it, but I understand it as a happenstance within our society today. Bringing the animals into the game has no political or environmental motive behind it. I just wanted Orcas in the game.
I understand that Frontier's "message" with Planet Zoo is focused on Conservation, but that is not the case for a lot of us. I come from the Sandbox community, where I build pseudo-realistic zoos. And sometimes that comes to habitats that are not perfectly tailored to the animals in question. I have tiny exhibits despite having infinite money and resources. Why do I do this? Because Planet Zoo is no more than a glorified trainset to me. It allows me to build my perfect zoo, while keeping within the realistic parameters that many zoos and aquariums around the world need to restrict themselves to.
Heck, I'm anticipating a realistic attempt at a cetacean enclosure in one of the zoo's that I'm working on. Why do I want to do this? Because I like the realism side moreso than the "fantastical" side. Heck, even the "fantastical" side goes beyond the original intention of the game. Check out what Poisonblade does here:
Floating islands in the sky! I make realistic attempts at low-profile zoos that need to cut corners. Planet Zoo has indeed taught a lot to me in terms of conservation, but when I play, I don't give a hoot about conservation. I care about building a zoo, hence the title, Planet Zoo.
If Frontier wishes to get involved with this topic, I am open to conversation. But I want to put in the animals I want to put in. I have put in Marine Iguanas which aren't located in captivity, and I've put in a ton of different types of farm animals and livestock. I've put in Ichtyostega and I've put in Icadyptes, extinct animals.
I am just tired of hearing the same broken record of saying that Planet Zoo is only intended for conservation. It's a world-builder and I want to build the worlds that I want to build. I do not want to adhere to the demands that other people make for me. It's my own experience, and if that experience includes cetaceans, I'm going to have them.
I'm not telling you how to play. I'm not telling you to install mods or to not install mods. Nobody tells anybody how to play in a sandbox game.
Cheers y'all.
You've been on this forum since 2018, never posted, but after 4 years you decided to post because a fake animal that literally cannot suffer on a video game is unethical? When you can literally give it an ocean sized tank? Video games aren't restricted by the laws of physics or what is conventional to build. Just give them their own ocean if you want.
The big reason I wish Frontier would do some collaborative work with modders... the quality is there, it just lacks the polish.
It's more that the tools available are very much in their infancy
I'm just going to repeat what others have said because it's important: IT'S. A. GAME. That alone should make this a non-issue. We make imaginary zoos, it's not real. I play games to have FUN. And if imaginary orcas and dolphins make games fun for those of us who do use mods, then let us have it. Who cares!
While I heavily disagree with OP's opinion on this. Isn't this a bit too harsh? We got several users who always comment "respect other opinions" but when they disagree on something, they go on the offensive.
I do hope some people remember "it's a game/it's just a game" in other discussions as well.
I do hope some people remember "it's a game/it's just a game" in other discussions as well.
What would you want Frontier to do? Or other players for that matter? It's a mod and there are many, many mods out there with troubling real world implications (and real world behaviors with troubling implications to go with it). This is a fantasy game, and there are going to be people who do things in their fantasy that wouldn't be reasonable in real life. Don't use the mod. Don't interact with the designer if their stance is troubling to you. Then you don't have to worry about it.
There's really nothing one can do about what other people choose to do when modding. I think the OP knows this, but they are expressing an opinion.
I've wondered about this regarding the huge number of albino and leucistic animals in the game. These animals rarely survive long in the wild when they occur, and they certainly wouldn't be part of zoo re-release programs. I know some zoos have had famous albino and/or leucistic animals, such as the white tigers they had at the (US) National zoo for a long time, and of course Snowflake the gorilla was very famous and loved, but I don't think they generally breed them intentionally. Of course some entertainers (remember Siegfried and Roy) do this sort of thing, but they were not by any stretch conservationists or particularly involved in educating the public about these animals.
People intentionally breed "fancy" rats, rabbits, birds, and reptiles too, but those are to be pets. Interestingly, I've never seen a leucistic or white reptile in the game. This is probably because exhibit animals can't be sold to other players or transferred between zoos, so if one crops up at random, its progeny stay within the zoo where it popped up.
The abundance of white habitat animals is more a matter of what players have chosen to do with them.
I've created billboards with educational material about the genetics of albino and leucistic animals (and why they are so rare in the wild) and link them to any habitats that currently have some, which seems like the sort of thing a real zoo would do if they had some white animals.
It would be more realistic if the white animals (of species where white animals generally don't survive in the wild) couldn't be released for conservation credits and could only be sold to other players or traded for money.
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Yeah, as said, many many times its A GAME
It is a game expressly about conservation and animal welfare - are you arguing that games can’t / shouldn’t have political or educational goals or outcomes? On the other hand, modders should (and will) do whatever they want....
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I am against keeping ceteacens in captivity, but I am equally against Peta and will ever be. I better don't add reasons to this statement, because my words would not be friendly at all.
And they are MODS. Not content Frontier earns any money with, but MODS. If you don't like them, don't use them. I normally don't give that argument, as I know when you love a game and want to play a zoo game, you are kind of dependent on what the company does. But modders are not the company and you are not missing out on anything by just not putting whales and dolphin mods in your game.
But believe it or not, no animals are or will be harmed when using the mod. in-game orcas are just pixels. And this is a game. I don't have that mod, but personally I wouldn't be completly against having ceteacens IN GAME, because sometimes I don't want to play the good zoo manager, but the careless one. And again: No real animals will be harmed in the progress.
And they are MODS. Not content Frontier earns any money with, but MODS. If you don't like them, don't use them. I normally don't give that argument, as I know when you love a game and want to play a zoo game, you are kind of dependent on what the company does. But modders are not the company and you are not missing out on anything by just not putting whales and dolphin mods in your game.
But believe it or not, no animals are or will be harmed when using the mod. in-game orcas are just pixels. And this is a game. I don't have that mod, but personally I wouldn't be completly against having ceteacens IN GAME, because sometimes I don't want to play the good zoo manager, but the careless one. And again: No real animals will be harmed in the progress.
While I'd very strongly prefer that Frontier doesn't end up adding cetaceans, I couldn't possibly be bothered by what modders are adding. It's just a mod that I probably won't ever mess around with even if I ever do start dabbling in them. No harm, no foul imo.
Well, all mods are "defying" Frontier, arent they?
But if the orca mod upsets you so much, I will tell you a secret! They (and the other "dolphins") are actually giant otters in costumes. They were sad that so many people called them ugly/less cute than their other otter cousins, so they decided to do some cosplay into animals people mostly find beautiful/cool and care about They also wanted to give their sea otter relatives a good scare
However now more serious, I strongly disagree with the claim that adding orcas/cetaceans would have to go against the games message. (and yes, I guess I said this like a thousand times already
) Also the big(ger) zoological Associations are not against keeping cetaceans in zoos at all ( https://www.waza.org/news/waza-statement-on-france-cetacean-legislation/; https://www.eaza.net/assets/Uploads...AZA-statement-on-French-legislationFINAL.pdf; https://eaam.org/statements/)
If Frontier was to ask any of those associations about the matter and if they could add cetaceans in PZ and keep their conversation message, then I am 100% sure they would tell Frontier that yes, they could. Also the zoos who keep cetaceans, disagree with them or not, did and still do alot for actual conversation of wild cetaceans and many other animals. While Planet Zoo/Frontier on the other hand dosent really do anything. Since Planet Zoo is simply a game, nothing you do there matters in real life. So yeah, in the end its Frontiers decision to add cetaceans or not, but of course I hope they will see the good things and do add them. And yes, I know the chances are slim, but I wont stop to hope for orcas and other dolphins in PZ.
Now since all those cetaceans mods are there, I saw alot more people being "pro-cetaceans in PZ" and this is also very good, maybe it wont change anything, but it could also made the tiny chance at least a bit better.
Other than that I can say I am really happy about this mod. I didnt use PZ mods before and I never thought that otter-cetaceans could be as good as they are. Sure, they are not perfect, but considering the modders being restricted in what they can do its really awesome how they look and move - besides actually being otters
Those cetaceans mods are so far the first and only mods I use for PZ and I am quite happy and thankful to the modders
They really made my week and also made me care more about a dolphin that was rather low on my "priority-list" before - the Pacific White-Sided Dolphin. This is now my favourite after the orca, so good is the mod done. So, adding an animal to a game can really make people care^^
Since I have these mods I am even building more and trying new things, which is really "crazy" for me, considering how much I dislike building stuff for hours - but now I do
I will still keep dreaming about offical orcas and dolphins, though. Just imagine what Frontier could do with cetacean animations, sounds, enrichment items and more...
Frontier could add them in amazingly, I am very sure. The mods are nice, but what Frontier could do would just be awesome
Oh, and I could of course finally have them in franchise mode, which is actually my favourite mode, but "cant use" currently^^
So Frontier, the mods are no danger, I still want to give my money to you
And I forgot - I also need offical cetaceans to be allowed to share pics of them on here
But if the orca mod upsets you so much, I will tell you a secret! They (and the other "dolphins") are actually giant otters in costumes. They were sad that so many people called them ugly/less cute than their other otter cousins, so they decided to do some cosplay into animals people mostly find beautiful/cool and care about
They also wanted to give their sea otter relatives a good scareHowever now more serious, I strongly disagree with the claim that adding orcas/cetaceans would have to go against the games message. (and yes, I guess I said this like a thousand times already
) Also the big(ger) zoological Associations are not against keeping cetaceans in zoos at all ( https://www.waza.org/news/waza-statement-on-france-cetacean-legislation/; https://www.eaza.net/assets/Uploads...AZA-statement-on-French-legislationFINAL.pdf; https://eaam.org/statements/)If Frontier was to ask any of those associations about the matter and if they could add cetaceans in PZ and keep their conversation message, then I am 100% sure they would tell Frontier that yes, they could. Also the zoos who keep cetaceans, disagree with them or not, did and still do alot for actual conversation of wild cetaceans and many other animals. While Planet Zoo/Frontier on the other hand dosent really do anything. Since Planet Zoo is simply a game, nothing you do there matters in real life. So yeah, in the end its Frontiers decision to add cetaceans or not, but of course I hope they will see the good things and do add them. And yes, I know the chances are slim, but I wont stop to hope for orcas and other dolphins in PZ.
Now since all those cetaceans mods are there, I saw alot more people being "pro-cetaceans in PZ" and this is also very good, maybe it wont change anything, but it could also made the tiny chance at least a bit better.
Other than that I can say I am really happy about this mod. I didnt use PZ mods before and I never thought that otter-cetaceans could be as good as they are. Sure, they are not perfect, but considering the modders being restricted in what they can do its really awesome how they look and move - besides actually being otters
Those cetaceans mods are so far the first and only mods I use for PZ and I am quite happy and thankful to the modders
They really made my week and also made me care more about a dolphin that was rather low on my "priority-list" before - the Pacific White-Sided Dolphin. This is now my favourite after the orca, so good is the mod done. So, adding an animal to a game can really make people care^^Since I have these mods I am even building more and trying new things, which is really "crazy" for me, considering how much I dislike building stuff for hours - but now I do
I will still keep dreaming about offical orcas and dolphins, though. Just imagine what Frontier could do with cetacean animations, sounds, enrichment items and more...
Frontier could add them in amazingly, I am very sure. The mods are nice, but what Frontier could do would just be awesome
Oh, and I could of course finally have them in franchise mode, which is actually my favourite mode, but "cant use" currently^^
So Frontier, the mods are no danger, I still want to give my money to you
And I forgot - I also need offical cetaceans to be allowed to share pics of them on here
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I would probably take the discussion more seriously if we were talking about official content, but in this case, its important to note that the mods are optional and not forced onto anyone.
Even if you play franchise, you wont see any of the modded animals in the market, so mods are mostly personal preferences in our offline play. I dont think we can (nor should) regulate what others play with in their offline games. Frontier is tolerating the mods if they are not presented on the official channels, so it can be clear that they do not have anything to do with them. That is a good compromise.
Even if you play franchise, you wont see any of the modded animals in the market, so mods are mostly personal preferences in our offline play. I dont think we can (nor should) regulate what others play with in their offline games. Frontier is tolerating the mods if they are not presented on the official channels, so it can be clear that they do not have anything to do with them. That is a good compromise.
Quite a few discussions are based on educational parts or on experiences with RL habitats. If we start commenting "its (just) a game", we can discredit any opinion on this forum
I disagree with OP and don't think the starting post was the best way to address this but it is an interesting POV: What if modders create some "unacceptable" things for PZ, that goes against their vision of the game? For example: a poachers or a hunting mod.
I think it's more fueled by pro-modding instead of pro-cetaceans. People don't like when modders are "attacked" for something they create, adjust or being told that a modder should limit theirselves to conform to a specific standard.
We saw a similar thing with the first one (the thylacine) and people still don't like extinct animals DLC for PZ. or even petting zoos.
I am pro putting pixel orcas in pixel zoos.
Maybe this is true for some, but I am speaking about people who literally said they would like to have PZ add cetaceans. Also at places where the modder wasnt attacked at all, or even praised or treated "neutral"
I cant link it of course, but a good example is the "Dolphin Bay" video by Rudi Rennkamel on YouTube, many comments there are people saying they hope Frontier would add cetaceans into the game. And in other videos by others who showed those mods aswell. And yes, there were also such comments on the reddit the OP comes from. And here of course aswell
And then I am pretty sure all the people who downloaded the cetacean mods wouldnt have anything against having them offically added (sure, they may be a few exceptions, but I doubt many of those who really dont want them in the game would use the mod) and then there are of course still many people who dont use the mod, but would like to have them in the game offically.
Honestly, I dont think the majority of the PZ players are against having cetaceans in the game, sure neither do I think its people like me who totall desire them - in fact I think the majority are those who are fine either way. Who would welcome/like them if they came, but not miss them if they didnt.