Game or simulation?

TLDR; Simulation Game.

I think that simulation in this context is a scale not a yes or no thing. On one end of the scale, 100% sim would be something that is absolutely as close to reality as it can get. Such that you'd have to eat, you would get ill and the game would end when you die. At the other end of the scale, 0% sim I might find a zombie riding a my little pony emerging from a space station riding a rainbow - just because.

Needless to say, almost all games fall somewhere in between those two extremes. I believe that Elite games should fall closer to the simulation end than most, but not as close as hardcore simulation games. I think that without a healthy dose of simulation it would not be enjoyable. But then it's worth thinking about what we're trying to simulate and how:

I could even argue that my original question is a moot point because how can you have a simulation of something which hasn't come to pass?

This is something they do in every weather forecast. It's one of the best uses of simulation. Likewise we can run a simulation of things that aren't real and won't come to pass. We could simulate a cricket shot being played in completely normal conditions but with double Earth's gravity. Not something that will realistically happen but still a simulation of how something might happen within those parameters. Almost all simulations have parameters that don't perfectly replicate reality - which is why they're simulations and not re-enactments (or pre-enactments?!).

So we can model something that hasn't happened yet, and even something that isn't real. But it's still a simulation. So now we have a legitimate question: we're trying to simulate something, but what? Not reality. I don't want to spend my entire life staring at empty unchanging space just because it's realistic. We're trying to simulate a particular brand of science fiction. It is not reality, it doesn't have to be perfect science. But it does resemble reality, and it has to stay true to its own universe. There's a good deal of room for artistic license, and some significant concessions to gameplay (not least the fact we're dogfighting in fighter cockpits) - but it's not a fairy tale. We do need a simulated universe that is fairly believable.
 
To me it's pure and simple escapism. Like an interactive book, a sci fi adventure where you make the stories every time you undock.

I think that's the biggest draw for me, the freedom.
 
All depends on personal definitions, so there's no absolute answer, but it definitely has a lot of both.

I tend to see it primarily as a game but with a heavy bias towards the sort of gameplay mechanics that define simulators. But it's not a "real" simulator in as much as those elements don't dominate.

Honestly, it's the perfect balance :)
 
<edited>if you want a space sim that runs real-time try Orbiter...uses real data, a lot of it gleamed from NASA
What Mike sez. ED is a game, period. It is a toy. The physics are all buggered up, there is sound in space, The visual perspectives are all wrong, yada yada yada. Nonetheless, it is -- or will be, once some of the really problematic issues are put away -- a very entertaining game.

There are other flight "sim" games out there like War Thunder and such, but they're surrounded by communities of cheaters who make playing the game an iffy thing in the first place. ED has a user base consisting primarily of Old Farts who remember the original game and others like it and who want that sensation again in a renewed, updated form. This game appeals to a wide range of players with a wide range of entertainment goals. War Thunder and World of Warbirds and such stuff are strictly for shoot-'em-up, yee, hah! Pick yer poison.

If you want the game to more closely mimic actual physics, etc., you're gonna hafta lobby for it.
 
It is a toy.

So is my flight simulator, my car, and my dog. They exist for my entertainment, and exist because of my desire for entertainment. A toy is simply a tool whose job is to entertain. Anything can be a toy.

Even if something isn't meant to be a faithful representation of reality, using elements of reality is necessary to have an identifiable/comprehensible experience. Also, given the genre and precedent set by prior titles, some elements that mimic certain realities are going to be expected (and indeed were promised).
 
It is both a game and a simulation.. Just like GTA,FSX,GTR2 and hundreds of other games ;) I spent many years working on full blown Level-D and fixed based simulators for airlines.

The only reason I would never call them a game is due to the huge amount of cost and certification involved in creating and operating them. Now if a had 20mil in the bank, and the space to stick one in my back yard, I would quite happily tell my friends I had the best game ever for them to check out.


Have never understood why some feel that the words simulation & game have to be mutually exclusive :)

Sorry for being lazy, I hate quoting wiki, however.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulation_game
GTA? Lol seriously....
 
It's a game.
The only thing you could possibly point to as a simulation is the galaxy. Even then it's loosely a simulation as the galaxy in E: D isn't 100% based on real life (pretty sure we haven't colonized any other planets in real life yet).
It's not a simulation game as it doesn't replicate something you can do in real life (you can't fly spaceships).
So it's just a game. Nothing wrong with that at all.
 
Yes it about definition. And it not that clear.

But game and simulation are different. But not black white but fuzzy. It not sharp defined and a game can be a simulation. And from pure to inbetween to totaly not. Simulation can be fun to. So fuzzy.

Games are about fun challange and competition and rewarding and acomplishment. And some.
Simulation is about training work but it is also challange and often also competing but in different kind contexts.

Space game simulate the game rules, large based on huge bunch of fictional rulez.
simulation in the context is much more realism less fiction.
For the realism ED is in core game play the spacecraft combat very unreal. So no combat sim. But will do better at exploration sim.

These space sim games tent to offer many gameplay option. So tend to be bit or much more multi genre.

Is this a good thing. No it can not be good or bad. It depends on the gamer preference. Each dev choice cater more or less to specific group of gamers. With so many design and gameplay choices which each game weight different. You please a specific group.

Me this choice isn't a big issue as I am very open to it. I play from extreem gamey to very realistic.

Frontier took there desision. And stick to it.

In reallife if something is fast and agile and hard to hit. They evolve solution to hit it with ease. Anti fighter big space shotgun like cannon. Or Flak cannon. Area effec weapon. Shell and missiles that explode within apromity.
Have turrets.

So the live expectation of fighter size craft are low. There trength is with huge numbers. Even unmanned. High losses.

Dogfighting is unreal in space. But they must have it in.

How ever realism doesn't mean it can not be fun. It can be but depends on which audience you cater for.

So for most gamers personal definitions ED is no combat sim but more a difficult dogfighting combat game.
And in big contrast also more exploring sim.
 
Don't know, don't care.

I mean... really... whats the point?

Strange to make the effort to show how apathetic you are:S

I think somebody got out of the wrong side of bed this morning don't you?

Take a seat and let's talk about your day over some toasted crumpets! Mmmmmm.:)
 
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i am another one of the people that really dont care what its called. simulation... Game.. those terms mean exactly nothing to me as i consider one thing and one thing only.

IS IT FUN?

and i say yes... it is fun so all is well in my book
 
Don't know, don't care.

I mean... really... whats the point?

i am another one of the people that really dont care what its called. simulation... Game.. those terms mean exactly nothing to me as i consider one thing and one thing only.

IS IT FUN?

and i say yes... it is fun so all is well in my book

And I agree,it is fun.Is that homebrew you have in your hand?
 
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