Nope.
First: not every ship is a combat vessel
Second: Increasing time-to-kill makes reaching Elite status even more tedious. And Combat Elite is the most tedious Elite title already if we don't count CQC.
Third: It would not add to gameplay.
Games dead! Kornelius sounds exasperated
- Thread starter VR Jay Le Chardon
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Nope.
First: not every ship is a combat vessel
Second: Increasing time-to-kill makes reaching Elite status even more tedious. And Combat Elite is the most tedious Elite title already if we don't count CQC.
Third: It would not add to gameplay.
Not sure how to call C&P and upcoming Exploration and Mining changes then. I think FD knows very well what they want. Everything is just colossal amount of work.
Hyperspace and SS requires revamp because...? NPCs are definitely something they can and believe they will improve.
How increased TTK is tedious? In fact, if it results more of less blown up ships and more actual retreat / battle mechanics, it is welcoming change.
This is not an arcade shooter.
Right so. They are doing something about exploration. So it looks like they are moving away from the "add moar minigames" mindset. But I'm still skeptical. Last seasons where so fragmented and about MVP's mini-games that it's hard to believe that they really got around making a 180° in term of dev strat. We'll see in December I guess.
As per Hyperspace :
Simply put, the lack of galactic "terrain" makes navigation in exploration boring and unchallenging. That could be improved and would make exploration feel like it. (instead of being akin to entering the destination in the GPS and driving on the highway).
At the moment exploration is relaxed tourism with little to no dangers nor challenges.
As per SS :
Do I really need to point out how anti-immersive SS are in their current implementation ? Player flies arround, and "poof" stuff appear. Get in one, get out and "poof" those other wrecks are all but gone. Semi-persistance, and spawning several of them upon SC entry would be better. As would the ability to get the type (not the rank/diffculty/details) without scanning. Also, why not use SS more in missions ? Like having missions that make you go through an HGE like SS, so that SS hunting gameplay is gone and mostly naturally occurs with missions.
Then again, maybe it's just me...
NPC's : if they don't plan to improve them, they are fools.
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I've watched the vid now. Kornelius has a point, there is a lot of game mechanics that could work around our interactions with NPCs that are rather disappointing that they haven't been applied. They shouldn't just be there to explode. The game shouldn't be an arcade shooter, but I can see how some players may consider it one.
This is the result of a risk adverse player base and Frontier walking back as many changes as they've successfully managed to keep. As are many things at this point. They shouldn't be there to just explode, or be a convenience. That they are, and there's such little respect for them, speaks volumes. The first round of C&P changes ignored them entirely, no less. People don't care, until they do (ie when it's convenient).
Honestly I have just accepted this is how Frontier build things. It's been several years since inception. They just build things a specific way, and it's never going to fundimentally change. Folks are just realising this in their own ways I think, at this point.
Kornelius has a very valid point; he took a huge break and, fundimentally speaking, it's still the same basic mechanics. Because it always will be. This is who Frontier are. This is just how they build content. Visually stunning, with incredible sound engineering - that is hopelessly complicated and mired in endless repetition. That is, simply as it is.
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Ahh you argue SS is not perfect or immerse enough? That I can understand. Usually people bash SS but offer anything little else.
Also SS doesn't exactly appear in poof at the moment. They are spatial, and they appear and disappear because players appear to get closer.
But I can agree that they can be improved great deal (and afaik at LaveCon devs hinted they plan to?).
I love how OP doesn't even get Kornelius Briedis' name right... [noob]
Deleted member 38366
D
Hehe, I knew what was going to happen the moment the Video started and he started following NPCs 
(been there, done that - got the T-Shirt)
Since we don't have a Sandbox (not even a resource-saving coarse one), wakes left by NPCs merely gives them a fake semi-persistence.
The Wakes trigger the illusion that "NPCs are actually doing their stuff", as they trigger the re-spawn of the specific NPC.
But other than that, we still have the original V1.0 spawning and de-spawning rules that govern everything. No Sandbox, no persistence.
No NPCs exist when there's no Player around to see them and as a result no NPC activities or presence take place outside of areas a Player is triggering their spawn scenarios.
Had he placed other Players throughout other Systems and not followed the Wake - the other Players in the correct Systems would not have seen this NPC jump in.
Because it ceased to exist the moment it HiWaked, with that HiWake being the only scripted "hook-up" possible. And that happens anywhere in any Player-populated Instance.
Same would have happened if he had a 2nd Player scan the Wake and Text him the Target System & jump there. Without scanning the Wake himself, that NPC would have vanished.
On the NPC "logic" - well, they're not really doing anything, since there's nothing to do for them other than "show presence to Player".
They also can't properly depart or approach Planets/Planetary Installations (just watch where they spawn around Planets with a Base and where they disengage - way too far out, and you'll never see one properly landing).
-------------------------------
I think some 3 years ago, like many others I suggested making NPC presence better and more logical - and especially more persistent. All just serving one purpose : hide the RNG/Scripted Spawning/De-Spawning as good as possible.
Starts from "everything spawns from scratch all the time" Instances (Stations, SuperCruise, System entry), going over NPCs properly following activities for their Ship type & Location, all the way to affording basic NPC interaction (basic Communication, Data inquiry, Directions, feedback for local events, proper behavior based on NPC Ship/Rank vs. Player Ship/Rank).
Nothing happened basically, you'll still get scanned by an Eagle Pirate Archetype NPC with the famous line "What do you carry I wonder?" while your Corvette or Cutter smashes a Wanted Pirate Archetype Anaconda from the very same Faction.
Fun fact : most of those "let's hide the non-persistence/spawned out of thin air" tweaks could remain relying on Scripts and only require minor changes to spawned scenarios. Fairly small changes, big difference in experience.
- you enter a new System and it's already fully populated (as if you're instanced with another Player in the current Game - except you aren't, inhabited Systems would always yield a fully developed Traffic picture)
- you re-enter SuperCruise and find it's the same instance you left 1 min ago, just forwarded (currently only possible if another Player keeps the Instance alive in SC)
- you follow any NPC and find instead of jumping to RNG locations to no end and no purpose, it properly travels to execute a specific Task
- you're now able to contact NPCs via Comms Box and have a set of specific Comms Questions (Trouble in the System? Ask a Trader where good profits are - if in good Rep with his Faction he'll give you hints... etc. etc.. Basic but functional stuff)
- if you depend a Miner in a RES coming under attack, the Miner NPC will recognize your help (and maybe offer you something, or the Faction he's working for at some point in the future if you collect enough "bonus points" with them)
- in Conflict Zones, you can contact a System Defense Force Anaconda to "pair up", since you're in a big Combat Rig as well... The NPC will appreciate the help. You'll then be that NPC's informal Wingman.
- in SuperCruise, you might see a Clean Combat NPC while you're in a Trade Ship; ask the guy for Escort and (depending on Faction Rep) the NPC might agree - for a 5% cut of your Trade profits.
- during Exploration, you might see another Explorer NPC... if you're nice, that NPC might hint you to a nice location (high-value System, otherwise maybe even a Storyline-relevant discovery)
- after entering a Distress Call and cleaning out Opposition, the out-of-fuel NPC doesn't move due to proximity as it does now (their Thrusters work just fine ). Becomes persistent USS now if you accept the request for refuel - with some rewards.
- "Special NPCs".. persistent unique NPCs that only appear from time to time or under rare conditions. "The Silver Comet" anyone? All that would now be possible.
All these things (and a whole lot more potential) are currently missing.
Folks are used to that condition - but one must keep in mind other Space Games/Sims already had basic solutions for non-combat NPC interactions and went further than ELITE almost 20 years ago.
IMHO that's something I would want to address and improve if I was in charge of the Game.
(been there, done that - got the T-Shirt)
Since we don't have a Sandbox (not even a resource-saving coarse one), wakes left by NPCs merely gives them a fake semi-persistence.
The Wakes trigger the illusion that "NPCs are actually doing their stuff", as they trigger the re-spawn of the specific NPC.
But other than that, we still have the original V1.0 spawning and de-spawning rules that govern everything. No Sandbox, no persistence.
No NPCs exist when there's no Player around to see them and as a result no NPC activities or presence take place outside of areas a Player is triggering their spawn scenarios.
Had he placed other Players throughout other Systems and not followed the Wake - the other Players in the correct Systems would not have seen this NPC jump in.
Because it ceased to exist the moment it HiWaked, with that HiWake being the only scripted "hook-up" possible. And that happens anywhere in any Player-populated Instance.
Same would have happened if he had a 2nd Player scan the Wake and Text him the Target System & jump there. Without scanning the Wake himself, that NPC would have vanished.
On the NPC "logic" - well, they're not really doing anything, since there's nothing to do for them other than "show presence to Player".
They also can't properly depart or approach Planets/Planetary Installations (just watch where they spawn around Planets with a Base and where they disengage - way too far out, and you'll never see one properly landing).
-------------------------------
I think some 3 years ago, like many others I suggested making NPC presence better and more logical - and especially more persistent. All just serving one purpose : hide the RNG/Scripted Spawning/De-Spawning as good as possible.
Starts from "everything spawns from scratch all the time" Instances (Stations, SuperCruise, System entry), going over NPCs properly following activities for their Ship type & Location, all the way to affording basic NPC interaction (basic Communication, Data inquiry, Directions, feedback for local events, proper behavior based on NPC Ship/Rank vs. Player Ship/Rank).
Nothing happened basically, you'll still get scanned by an Eagle Pirate Archetype NPC with the famous line "What do you carry I wonder?" while your Corvette or Cutter smashes a Wanted Pirate Archetype Anaconda from the very same Faction.
Fun fact : most of those "let's hide the non-persistence/spawned out of thin air" tweaks could remain relying on Scripts and only require minor changes to spawned scenarios. Fairly small changes, big difference in experience.
- you enter a new System and it's already fully populated (as if you're instanced with another Player in the current Game - except you aren't, inhabited Systems would always yield a fully developed Traffic picture)
- you re-enter SuperCruise and find it's the same instance you left 1 min ago, just forwarded (currently only possible if another Player keeps the Instance alive in SC)
- you follow any NPC and find instead of jumping to RNG locations to no end and no purpose, it properly travels to execute a specific Task
- you're now able to contact NPCs via Comms Box and have a set of specific Comms Questions (Trouble in the System? Ask a Trader where good profits are - if in good Rep with his Faction he'll give you hints... etc. etc.. Basic but functional stuff)
- if you depend a Miner in a RES coming under attack, the Miner NPC will recognize your help (and maybe offer you something, or the Faction he's working for at some point in the future if you collect enough "bonus points" with them)
- in Conflict Zones, you can contact a System Defense Force Anaconda to "pair up", since you're in a big Combat Rig as well... The NPC will appreciate the help. You'll then be that NPC's informal Wingman.
- in SuperCruise, you might see a Clean Combat NPC while you're in a Trade Ship; ask the guy for Escort and (depending on Faction Rep) the NPC might agree - for a 5% cut of your Trade profits.
- during Exploration, you might see another Explorer NPC... if you're nice, that NPC might hint you to a nice location (high-value System, otherwise maybe even a Storyline-relevant discovery)
- after entering a Distress Call and cleaning out Opposition, the out-of-fuel NPC doesn't move due to proximity as it does now (their Thrusters work just fine
). Becomes persistent USS now if you accept the request for refuel - with some rewards.- "Special NPCs".. persistent unique NPCs that only appear from time to time or under rare conditions. "The Silver Comet" anyone? All that would now be possible.
All these things (and a whole lot more potential) are currently missing.
Folks are used to that condition - but one must keep in mind other Space Games/Sims already had basic solutions for non-combat NPC interactions and went further than ELITE almost 20 years ago.
IMHO that's something I would want to address and improve if I was in charge of the Game.
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https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/7494-Elite-Dangerous-Persistent-NPC-s
"Persistent." "Consistent." "Permanence." "Persist for players." "Persistent character."
Not disagreeing with your analysis or conclusion, but that opening statement is a crock. The DDF Proposal clearly describes persistent NPCs, even if FD bit off more than they could chew.
If they'd stuck with what they'd said in the KS and DDF instead of crap like MC, CQC, Engineers, PP, Passengers ED would be an entirely different game now and would probably be half decent.
First: every ship can escape
Second: if the combat “grind” is too much or tedious, maybe combat isnt for you.
Third: yes it does, rolfstomping your way trough a RES is basicly farming. Having enemies that are capeble of fighting back would add gameplay. Cause at the moment bringing anything bigger than a Vulture to a RES site is a cakewalk..
or maybe finally dead, how do you know
You mean if they took out the shallow game play and put in something deeper? No, there would be more people playing it today as that's been THE major complaint since launch and why people stop playing it.
People don't complain about Subnautica, for example, because it "ran out of gameplay"
Kornelius sounds exasperated? That's news? I'm a fan and I like his style, but he always sounds stressed to me.
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The oraculus has spoken! make room, please
Passengers as implemented in Elite Dangerous matches the Passengers DDF proposal almost exactly, the main exception being that passengers don't currently react to in-game events as strongly as originally proposed (e.g. military passengers demanding you intervene in the "weapons fire detected" signal source you just passed).
Engineers is an implementation of a bullet point in the NPCs DDF topic - they were originally envisaged as "Tier 2" NPCs who would carry out ship modifications. No further detail was given at the time, and they've been adjusted to be "Tier 1" instead, but they were certainly there.
...and I guess it's time to post my list of "unimplemented DDF features everyone forgets about" again...
- your fuel tank can explode and set fire to your ship
- hyperspace charging (low and high wake) is significantly slowed if your ship is being shot at (even just hitting shields with standard weapons) making it much harder to escape combat by running
- your galaxy map can malfunction and cause misjumps
- jump ranges in general are very low [1]
- space stations with a full facility range are rare - in general you'd go to a shipyard to buy ships, then across to a trading station to buy cargo, then maybe across to another station for the black market, etc.
- ship/module sale price depends on maintenance and other factors
- pay to store ships in hangars, keep ships stored in hangars, and swap ships [2]
- special scanner module must be fitted to do subsystem scans of other ships
- jumping to unvisited systems requires a complex process with probes and minigames to detect the system and acquire a hyperspace target
- explorers to be shot at by NPCs who don't like having their system scanned [3]
- multistage docking/launching traffic control to stop people just flying in or out when they want
- ship wear-and-tear significantly limits exploration endurance
They make an interesting comparison to the common themes of current player suggestions, don't they
[1] Exactly what jump ranges would be is never stated in the DDF as far as I can tell, but several other DDF proposed features (dark systems, unvisited system route plotting, misjumps, smuggling blockades) would require a hard cap at not much over 10LY to work well and not be a complete irrelevance.
[2] Note that 25% of DDF members polled believed multiple ship ownership to not be a priority at all, which should only be implemented later in an expansion. They were not necessarily the most representative sample of the player base...
[3] Interestingly this *was* part of the original 1.0 implementation if you were exploring within ~1000 LY of Sol. It was gradually phased out - the NPCs mostly disappeared, then they ignored you if you didn't carry cargo, then they stopped counting limpets as cargo - over the next few releases.