Games dead! Kornelius sounds exasperated

Move that eye patch off your good eye onto the blind one. :)

I only say that because I like Mining. Looking foward to Q4.
Can't even remember what else is happening in Q4 so it may indeed be pretty lacklustre.
Sorry, my claim was so spectacularly wrong I figured it was clearly sarcastic. But you're right, on this forum you never know :)
 
Sorry, couldn't bear to watch more than 5 minutes of this.

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Jex =TE=

Banned
That's funny...when you like a game, people who don't are crackpots. When people like a game that you don't, they're crackpots.

In other words, more accurately, you like that game better than this (which is perfectly valid, btw) and others like this game better (which, like it or not is also perfectly valid.)

Both games could be "better" in the eyes of some of their players. Neither game is "bad" because there's some people that don't like it.

No, for the exact reasons I just spelled out to you which you ignored. Re-read my post, all the information is there. ED is a bad game by design, if they fixed it then it would be a good game and not worthy of the criticism it receives. Subnautica on the other hand is an exceptionally good game because of it's design and the way it plays. It doesn't use "Skinner box" designs or grindy, repetitive mechanics either. Presumably, their entire forums over there are up in arms right? Negative posts daily or wouldn't you know that because you literally just went over there and saw a few posts?
 

Jex =TE=

Banned
"People who complain about Subnautica are wrong, because I like the game. People who don't complain about Elite Dangerous are wrong, because I don't like the game."

That would be misrepresenting my position since I just gave the exact reasons in the post making this post ridiculous.

Your post is showing how you don't get it.
 
Sorry, my claim was so spectacularly wrong I figured it was clearly sarcastic. But you're right, on this forum you never know :)

Apologies for my tone deafness. Just read the Q4 Roadmap the improved lighting and Planetary tech look promising.

And the Mining improvements look amazing. My T9 Red Dwarf will be heading into deep space.
 
No, for the exact reasons I just spelled out to you which you ignored. Re-read my post, all the information is there. ED is a bad game by design, if they fixed it then it would be a good game and not worthy of the criticism it receives. Subnautica on the other hand is an exceptionally good game because of it's design and the way it plays. It doesn't use "Skinner box" designs or grindy, repetitive mechanics either. Presumably, their entire forums over there are up in arms right? Negative posts daily or wouldn't you know that because you literally just went over there and saw a few posts?
"People who complain about Subnautica are wrong, because I like the game. People who don't complain about Elite Dangerous are wrong, because I don't like the game."
Your post is showing how you don't get it.
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I have a great idea.

Get ED and Subnautica a hotel room... apply lots of alcohol, let them get jiggy... and we can all enjoy their love child.

ED + Subnautica water worlds.... Ohhhh hail yeeeah.

Always thought the Aurora was Imperial anyway. Seems Cutter size... mayhaps a tad bigger... certainly not capital size, unless it's what the new carriers in the imperial navy will be like ;)
 
And the ironic thing is that it's Reddit and YouTube that gets the bad reputation... :S:O[blah]

Some people just find youtubers to be irrelevant. The OP of this thread misrepresented the video to push a personal agenda trying to piggyback on the youtubers popularity, like a fake "celebrity" endorsement for Schwarzenegger brand underpants or something.

The problem lies with the OP, and was in fact the OP's lies.

Of course people are dismissive it's a manufactured dishonest DOOOM thread on the back of four years of the same.
 
Some people just find youtubers to be irrelevant. The OP of this thread misrepresented the video to push a personal agenda trying to piggyback on the youtubers popularity, like a fake "celebrity" endorsement for Schwarzenegger brand underpants or something.

The problem lies with the OP, and was in fact the OP's lies.

Of course people are dismissive it's a manufactured dishonest DOOOM thread on the back of four years of the same.

Where can I get these Schwarzenegger underpants? It's vital that I have some.

I assume that they'll give me superpowers and a speech impediment. So, a win-win.
 
Yes - you caught me, I clickbaited the heck out of the OP and the threads title. Did spark a good conversation and some insightful debate, all of whcih I've read.

Counterpoint: Elite's development will remain slow while users of this forum fail to post substantial constructive feedback on influential public-facing sites directed at FDev's decision-making management.

Why should FDev's top brass be concerned with random threads/comments from Official forum users, which as a whole represent less than 5% of the game's ownership at most?

Sadly I think far too many good suggestions go through the suggestions or dangerous discussions seemingly ignored by frontier for players to do anything other than rant. Even just an acknowledgement saying they've read the idea and considered it and after reviewing it are likely to or disinclined to implement that suggestion in this season, next season or everafter would change the tone of the feedback this forum generates.

I've watched the vid now. Kornelius has a point, there is a lot of game mechanics that could work around our interactions with NPCs that are rather disappointing that they haven't been applied. They shouldn't just be there to explode. The game shouldn't be an arcade shooter, but I can see how some players may consider it one.

So nice to see someone else who doesnt want to see elite become everspace, I find it very satisfying to finish a play session tyred buzzing but exhausted :) to chase that adrenaline rush I often handicap myself with suboptimal ships.

Hehe, I knew what was going to happen the moment the Video started and he started following NPCs :D
(been there, done that - got the T-Shirt)

Since we don't have a Sandbox (not even a resource-saving coarse one), wakes left by NPCs merely gives them a fake semi-persistence.
The Wakes trigger the illusion that "NPCs are actually doing their stuff", as they trigger the re-spawn of the specific NPC.

But other than that, we still have the original V1.0 spawning and de-spawning rules that govern everything. No Sandbox, no persistence.
No NPCs exist when there's no Player around to see them and as a result no NPC activities or presence take place outside of areas a Player is triggering their spawn scenarios.

Had he placed other Players throughout other Systems and not followed the Wake - the other Players in the correct Systems would not have seen this NPC jump in.
Because it ceased to exist the moment it HiWaked, with that HiWake being the only scripted "hook-up" possible. And that happens anywhere in any Player-populated Instance.
Same would have happened if he had a 2nd Player scan the Wake and Text him the Target System & jump there. Without scanning the Wake himself, that NPC would have vanished.

On the NPC "logic" - well, they're not really doing anything, since there's nothing to do for them other than "show presence to Player".
They also can't properly depart or approach Planets/Planetary Installations (just watch where they spawn around Planets with a Base and where they disengage - way too far out, and you'll never see one properly landing).

-------------------------------

I think some 3 years ago, like many others I suggested making NPC presence better and more logical - and especially more persistent. All just serving one purpose : hide the RNG/Scripted Spawning/De-Spawning as good as possible.
Starts from "everything spawns from scratch all the time" Instances (Stations, SuperCruise, System entry), going over NPCs properly following activities for their Ship type & Location, all the way to affording basic NPC interaction (basic Communication, Data inquiry, Directions, feedback for local events, proper behavior based on NPC Ship/Rank vs. Player Ship/Rank).

Nothing happened basically, you'll still get scanned by an Eagle Pirate Archetype NPC with the famous line "What do you carry I wonder?" while your Corvette or Cutter smashes a Wanted Pirate Archetype Anaconda from the very same Faction.

Fun fact : most of those "let's hide the non-persistence/spawned out of thin air" tweaks could remain relying on Scripts and only require minor changes to spawned scenarios. Fairly small changes, big difference in experience.
- you enter a new System and it's already fully populated (as if you're instanced with another Player in the current Game - except you aren't, inhabited Systems would always yield a fully developed Traffic picture)
- you re-enter SuperCruise and find it's the same instance you left 1 min ago, just forwarded (currently only possible if another Player keeps the Instance alive in SC)
- you follow any NPC and find instead of jumping to RNG locations to no end and no purpose, it properly travels to execute a specific Task
- you're now able to contact NPCs via Comms Box and have a set of specific Comms Questions (Trouble in the System? Ask a Trader where good profits are - if in good Rep with his Faction he'll give you hints... etc. etc.. Basic but functional stuff)
- if you depend a Miner in a RES coming under attack, the Miner NPC will recognize your help (and maybe offer you something, or the Faction he's working for at some point in the future if you collect enough "bonus points" with them)
- in Conflict Zones, you can contact a System Defense Force Anaconda to "pair up", since you're in a big Combat Rig as well... The NPC will appreciate the help. You'll then be that NPC's informal Wingman.
- in SuperCruise, you might see a Clean Combat NPC while you're in a Trade Ship; ask the guy for Escort and (depending on Faction Rep) the NPC might agree - for a 5% cut of your Trade profits.
- during Exploration, you might see another Explorer NPC... if you're nice, that NPC might hint you to a nice location (high-value System, otherwise maybe even a Storyline-relevant discovery)
- after entering a Distress Call and cleaning out Opposition, the out-of-fuel NPC doesn't move due to proximity as it does now (their Thrusters work just fine ;) ). Becomes persistent USS now if you accept the request for refuel - with some rewards.
- "Special NPCs".. persistent unique NPCs that only appear from time to time or under rare conditions. "The Silver Comet" anyone? All that would now be possible.

All these things (and a whole lot more potential) are currently missing.
Folks are used to that condition - but one must keep in mind other Space Games/Sims already had basic solutions for non-combat NPC interactions and went further than ELITE almost 20 years ago.
IMHO that's something I would want to address and improve if I was in charge of the Game.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/7494-Elite-Dangerous-Persistent-NPC-s

"Persistent." "Consistent." "Permanence." "Persist for players." "Persistent character."

Not disagreeing with your analysis or conclusion, but that opening statement is a crock. The DDF Proposal clearly describes persistent NPCs, even if FD bit off more than they could chew.

The second part of this is exactly the sort of feedback I was fishing for, simple tweaks with big improvements to the game. In our ideal games scenario we'd all like persistent NPC's to be there even when are offline in a full on galaxy simulation, but that is impractical, so those suggestions are a good way of emulating the appearance of that scenario.

First: every ship can escape
Second: if the combat “grind” is too much or tedious, maybe combat isnt for you.
Third: yes it does, rolfstomping your way trough a RES is basicly farming. Having enemies that are capeble of fighting back would add gameplay. Cause at the moment bringing anything bigger than a Vulture to a RES site is a cakewalk..

As the otherguy said "not every ship is a combat ship yada yada", but I agree with you, if you are caught in a not a combat ship by a hostile npc it should pre4sent you with a serious problem rather than another roflstomp opportunity.

You mean if they took out the shallow game play and put in something deeper? No, there would be more people playing it today as that's been THE major complaint since launch and why people stop playing it.

People don't complain about Subnautica, for example, because it "ran out of gameplay"

Cannot comment on subnautica as I have never played it, but I have read quotes from further down in this thread that contradict your assertion about that game. I do however strongly agree with you that shallowness has been one of the most prevalent complaints of this game in the thirty months I've been involved with it.

Unfortunately people comment on the video without watching it and therefore have the completely wrong impression about the video. I totally understand that not everyone wanst to watch a video and / or feel it is irrelevant to them. However, the problem occurs when the thread title and video are unrelated (in this case the thread title has no relationship to the video at all).

I didn't mis represent his conclusion, just used a clickbaity title to get more people involved with the thread ;-) NPC's are really poorly implemented, one of the most famous youtubers has thrown the towel in with the game and now instead of posting useful tutorials presents cynical critiques of poor mechanics isnt exaclty a glowing health report for the game as a whole is it, so to quote obi wan... everything is true from a certain point of view.[video=youtube;Z8uDQuWlnww]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8uDQuWlnww[/video]







Popcorn is tasting great at the moment. Keep it coming guys. :)

Some people just find youtubers to be irrelevant. The OP of this thread misrepresented the video to push a personal agenda trying to piggyback on the youtubers popularity, like a fake "celebrity" endorsement for Schwarzenegger brand underpants or something.

The problem lies with the OP, and was in fact the OP's lies.

Of course people are dismissive it's a manufactured dishonest DOOOM thread on the back of four years of the same.
 
I didn't mis represent his conclusion, just used a clickbaity title to get more people involved with the thread ;-) NPC's are really poorly implemented, one of the most famous youtubers has thrown the towel in with the game and now instead of posting useful tutorials presents cynical critiques of poor mechanics isnt exaclty a glowing health report for the game as a whole is it, so to quote obi wan... everything is true from a certain point of view.

I don't disagree with Kornelius' video. I'm also not particularly blaming you for the "clickbait". The thing I was mentioning is that a lot of people commented in this thread without even watching the video - so how would they even know what they are commenting on? :D

Not saying they have to watch the video, they certainly don't. But it doesn't make much sense to judge the video based on someone else's title for the video.
 
Oh, I watched the video, and watched other videos (even the last one he just uploaded) now that he is again uploading ED.. same crap, a hidden constant message, like a mantra: FD game designers are bad, I know the truth and I can save the game, similar to other ED youtubers tho

To be honest, everybody can come and say: 'the game can be improved' for this, and every other game in the world. I don't see the point.

I'm so against clickbaits
 
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I didn’t watch the video. I value my own opinions more than others and I live vicariously through myself. Hard concept to grasp these days I know, but that’s how I roll. I get that so many people want to be stay at home YouTube millionaires and play video games but the harsh sad truth is no one ever will. But keep trying all the same!
 
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