Gamescom 2015 - What will FD Unveil?

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most of posts is about assuming it would be "empty" and wondering "for what?" with a lack of constructive input. Sorry...
Not at all... It's highlighting the fact people typically never broach the matter. They wave a comment around like, "be great when I can walk around a station," as if that says it all... Well, unfortunately it's saying nothing really.

Yes of course it could be brilliant to get out of your chair and go and do stuff... But what stuff exactly. For example, over and over we see people talking about fixing their ship - you yourself mentioned it - so fine, let's run with the idea... You walk through your beautifully rendered ship, and get to the damaged module, and then what happens? What is the game going allow you to do that will entice you to repeat the process in the future? What rewarding/engaging gameplay is going to be offered to repair a module? I'm not suggesting it can't be implemented, I'm simply highlighting there needs to be something to merit the feature. Yet people never discuss it. They're surely missing the most important point of it all! It sounds like a sexy idea, but without the added gameplay to actually earn its existence, and an eye for the detail, it could seriously miss the mark. Sort of like Powerplay! ;)

Likewise this "walking around stations." And? By all means spend hundreds of man days development putting in ambient NPC action and antics, but what are you actually going to do. What game mechanics should it be there for ultimately? What would you be doing? How?

Again, I'm not suggesting it can't be done, it's more down to why? Is there adequate interesting game mechanics to earn its existence.

You still don't want to see that improvements in the core game and expansion could be done at the same time. And that expansion could bring improvements to the core game. OK.
I do... But they've not happened while other stuff has been going on the the past six months :(
 
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Yes of course it could be brilliant to get out of your chair and go and do stuff... But what stuff exactly.
Walking around is tied with boarding player ships, not just repairing modules. Imagine PvP encounters with phasers around a ship the size of a FPS level.
 
Walking around is tied with boarding player ships, not just repairing modules. Imagine PvP encounters with phasers around a ship the size of a FPS level.

Fine... FPS'ing is an obvious potential feature (ignoring the issue with death). But if we park that, and do concentrate on "what else," where do we get to? eg: Think about the "repair my ship" scenario mentioned so often... Can you think of a mechanic that will make it enjoyable for example?

And walking around a station? Again what will you do that will actually prove rewarding/fun?
 
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Fine... FPS'ing is an obvious potential feature (ignoring the issue with death). But if we park that, and do concentrate on "what else," where do we get to? eg: Think about the "repair my ship" scenario mentioned so often... Can you think of a mechanic that will make it enjoyable for example?

And walking around a station? Again what will you do that will actually prove rewarding/fun?
You might encounter rare NPC spawns that offer special missions. Some missions might require you to meet an NPC in a station to complete a deal face to face (remember the concept art?). Boarding ships should be possible from within a station while cargo is being loaded into a ship, as stated by DB.

Then there's the obvious tie-in with planetary landings, where you can explore on foot, collecting stuff or whatever.

Can you think of a mechanic that will make it enjoyable for example?
Well, you could help repair a friend's ship, something like the Fuel Rats initiative.
 
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Walking around is tied with boarding player ships, not just repairing modules. Imagine PvP encounters with phasers around a ship the size of a FPS level.

Yes, and how does that play out? I'm flying my 'conda, it gets boarded and there's other ships shooting - what do I do now? Can't play a "flying a space ship" and an FPS at the same time, bearing in mind the game is all in real time for all players. Or will boarding only be available if there are only 2 ships present? Or will I be forced into FPS mode while my ship is forced into AI flight mode? Or will I be forced to have human crew? Can o' worms and not as simple as a "won't boarding be fun" throwaway line.
 
Why is everything should be empty? NPC doing their things, walking down the corridors/streets, transporting cargo, drinking/talking at bars, explorers quarters, military quarters, patrols chasing/catching someone, looking for a player to give a mission, looking for a ship to leave stations, etc and many more...



How to board.. - First you need to convince player to stop his/her ship (for example: Hostile - two ships in a wing, one is keeping lock, another approaching to board. Or Friendly - player losing oxygen, another simply needs to approach.). Then player needs to engage a mode similar to docking with a station, and following navigations for a panel in a cockpit, dock with another ship.

Aside from visuals/physics/movements/etc, for a good FPS, game needs better mission system, interesting mission that player can do inside stations. For example - passenger mission, that require you to put your passenger in cargo container and sneak it to your ship avoiding station patrols. Or even better - not only one path, but variety. Like the same mission, but battle your way to your ship and undock from station before station defences receive order to shoot you, with consequences of reputation loss and wanted status.



I think that PP and CQC are simple because it's just a small free updates to keep players occupied till something big is ready. And to sell more copies of the game to wider player base. And it is OK.

Mini-games is not something bad. If you don't like it - wait for something else to do (above for example). If there is too much "simple mechanics" in the game now, it doesn't mean more complex mechanics won't happen.



And if it is not a DLC? If it will be full expansion, if it will change/improve many of core game mechanics, will it be better then?

Of course it is tricky, and it's chances to fail are the same as to succeed. Until FD implemented it, your point is merely a speculation on "we don't have something now, it won't be good".



Sorry, but it looks like your glass is totally empty. No ideas, no solutions, only criticism and attempts to prove that there is nothing to do and "empty".



Rome wasn't built in a day! Everyone wants "something" to come sonner than later, but it doen't mean if it is not there already it won't be...

What you want is a full-scale pen and paper RPG, translated to code, with an AI Killer Gamemaster. :) Insert $1,000,000,000,000.00 USD, please, and wait 10 years.

Or a blockbuster film, with you as the star. Much cheaper and easier. :)
 
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Yes, and how does that play out? I'm flying my 'conda, it gets boarded and there's other ships shooting - what do I do now? Can't play a "flying a space ship" and an FPS at the same time, bearing in mind the game is all in real time for all players. Or will boarding only be available if there are only 2 ships present? Or will I be forced into FPS mode while my ship is forced into AI flight mode? Or will I be forced to have human crew? Can o' worms and not as simple as a "won't boarding be fun" throwaway line.
To connect with a ship, I imagine you have to be aligned with it and following the same speed, or being still (disabling its drives). After boarding the ship and getting rid of the commander, you'd have to go out and repair the drives to make it flyable again. And I think boarding a ship that's under fire by a third party isn't the smartest thing to do, if you don't like risking your own neck, that is.
 
I do... But they've not happened while other stuff has been going on the the past six months :(

Yes they have.

If FD tomorrow decided to revert the game to 1.0 status people would go completely nuts over all the features/mechanics and improvements that suddenly gone missing. And that is excluding the "headline features".

----

As for this whole "what could we actually do inside ships or down on planets"? Well...the huge majority of games that exist takes place down on planets inside/outside of buildings. For me the question "What can you actually do down on planets or inside ships?" is pretty much the same as "What can you actually do in the huge majority of all games ever made?".

New environments opens up for new game play opportunities and experiences.

I already listed some of these examples in a previous thread where you asked the same question...

  • Take out pirate bases down on planets Just Cause style! Ok, not that extreme maybe, but still... Bases could be put together procedural in a similar way as the current outposts, just planet side. Maybe by foot (due to ground-to-air defenses), maybe by doing bombing runs. Maybe just take out the people controlling it to give it back to it's "rightful owner".
  • All kinds of mining possibilities.
  • Scoop rare valuable organic compounds from ice geysers on moons with underground oceans. Maybe while flying along valley sized cracks in the ice!
  • Photomissions/data collection. Spy or science related.
  • Search, find and retrieve a certain objects/animals/plants.
  • Find ancient ruins of lost civilizations.
  • Go to a settlement on a distant planet, get out of your ship and on foot take out a target that is hiding there somewhere.
  • Scoop gases among the clouds of a gas giant...who doesn't want that! :cool:


I could go on...

All of these things (and more) can be implemented in a "simple way", a very complex and "deep" way or anywhere in between. Finding the balance is the trick...I do not expect any one of these features to be as detailed as games that are dedicated towards that task. Much the same way I don't expect flying a plane in GTA to be as detailed and accurate as a dedicated flight sim.

But even if we disregard the things above planetary locations (bases) to land on would still create variation to the gameworld in just the same way as more station types (exteriors/interiors) would do. Personally I have championed more station variation many many times here on the forum, but if the choice would come down to them making more space station types OR them adding more variation by giving us planetary locations to land at and conduct "station activities" there instead...well planets would win hands down in my book. ;)

Thankfully, I don't think that choice is needed. We will probably get both...eventually...
 
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Not at all... It's highlighting the fact people typically never broach the matter. They wave a comment around like, "be great when I can walk around a station," as if that says it all... Well, unfortunately it's saying nothing really.

Yes of course it could be brilliant to get out of your chair and go and do stuff... But what stuff exactly. For example, over and over we see people talking about fixing their ship - you yourself mentioned it - so fine, let's run with the idea... You walk through your beautifully rendered ship, and get to the damaged module, and then what happens? What is the game going allow you to do that will entice you to repeat the process in the future? What rewarding/engaging gameplay is going to be offered to repair a module? I'm not suggesting it can't be implemented, I'm simply highlighting there needs to be something to merit the feature. Yet people never discuss it. They're surely missing the most important point of it all! It sounds like a sexy idea, but without the added gameplay to actually earn its existence, and an eye for the detail, it could seriously miss the mark. Sort of like Powerplay!

Likewise this "walking around stations." And? By all means spend hundreds of man days development putting in ambient NPC action and antics, but what are you actually going to do. What game mechanics should it be there for ultimately? What would you be doing? How?

Hmmm... I sense your lack of faith disturbing Looks like you only keep asking "why?" and "what for?".
What do you think will make it better and how?

I've already posted a few ideas, described them. I dunno, but maybe you would like to see "walking past NPC while he is looking another way to not be caught" kind of description...

What to do in stations - there are ideas. How to board a ship in space - there is.
Breached canopy fixing - how it is not "rewarding/engaging gameplay"? Helping fellow commander by taking him on your ship and helping him with needed materials to fix his/her ship - how it is not "rewarding/engaging gameplay"?

Fuel Rats - great example of great gameplay with current (limited) toolset. Or it is not?

Another example - if module is damaged for more than 90% it loses half of it's capabilities. If thrusters - half of maximum speed and maneuverability. If FSD - half of maximum jump distance, because you don't want to stress heavily damaged module. So you would need to fix it, if it prevents you from reaching station with "Repair service", or you are an explorer far away from civilization and don't have repair module.

Boarding ships and FPS combat - I think it is very rewarding/engaging gameplay.

I do... But they've not happened while other stuff has been going on the the past six months

Like I've said earlier - Rome wasn't built in a day! ))
And if it's true or not we will see at Gamescom.

What you want is a full-scale pen and paper RPG, translated to code, with an AI Killer Gamemaster. Insert $1,000,000,000,000.00 USD, please, and wait 10 years.
Or a blockbuster film, with you as the star. Much cheaper and easier.

I think you are exaggerating.

Yes, and how does that play out? I'm flying my 'conda, it gets boarded and there's other ships shooting - what do I do now? Can't play a "flying a space ship" and an FPS at the same time, bearing in mind the game is all in real time for all players. Or will boarding only be available if there are only 2 ships present? Or will I be forced into FPS mode while my ship is forced into AI flight mode? Or will I be forced to have human crew? Can o' worms and not as simple as a "won't boarding be fun" throwaway line.

If you have NPC crew - AI autopilot. If you don't - ship stops (or not if FAOFF) and you go to FPS. Choices and consequences.
 
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Yes they have.

If FD tomorrow decided to revert the game to 1.0 status people would go completely nuts over all the features/mechanics and improvements that suddenly gone missing. And that is excluding the "headline features".
Absolutely...

Wings is the best thing done so far IMHO ;)

But if we consider broad strokes, what's been added for exploration for example? Different gravitational lensing? And no improving the galaxy map isn't really along the line of stuff we're talking about :)

And what about for missions and occupations? What significant changes have there been? There was the hope V1.3s Missions Rewrite would bring in far deeper missions (for Powerplay) but alas no sight yet.


So yes, of course loads of features have been improved, and things added here and there, but if you were to look at the core gameplay elements, the professions, and missions etc, what's progressed notably in six+ months?

- - - Updated - - -

Fuel Rats - great example of great gameplay with current (limited) toolset. Or it is not?
Absolutely, and it's just a small glimmer of the true emergent gameplay so many of us hope would be sprouting all over the place. But the mechanics simply are varied/deep enough yet for much (anything) to take route :)

Fingers crossed...
 
Gamescom 2015 - What will FD Unveil?

Well, after PP and CQC, I could imagine "fishing", "pets" (including pet fights?), "cooking", "need to sleep", "taxes and fees" or something else no one asked for.
BUT I am an optimist. I hope for passenger transport and persistent T2 NPCs, L4 probe scans for planets, player2player interaction (trading, shared storage, etc.) and THARGOIDS (!)
 
Absolutely...
Wings is the best thing done so far IMHO ;)
But if we consider broad strokes, what's been added for exploration for example? Different gravitational lensing? And no improving the galaxy map isn't really along the line of stuff we're talking about :)
And what about for missions and occupations? What significant changes have there been? There was the hope V1.3s Missions Rewrite would bring in far deeper missions (for Powerplay) but alas no sight yet.
So yes, of course loads of features have been improved, and things added here and there, but if you were to look at the core gameplay elements, the professions, and missions etc, what's progressed notably in six+ months?

I think FD way of development is adding minor improvements while working on something quite bigger.


"what's progressed notably in six+ months?" - progress is good, wings, balancing professions income, more ships, better mission system, CG, tweaks and bug fixes, PP (which I don't like, but many players enjoy it).
Probably development speed is not as fast as you would like it to be. But there is no way to prove "lack of progress" till Gamescom. So using it now as an important question is pointless.

Absolutely, and it's just a small glimmer of the true emergent gameplay so many of us hope would be sprouting all over the place. But the mechanics simply are varied/deep enough yet for much (anything) to take route :)
Fingers crossed...

And this is exactly why so many players want "Walking S/S and Planetary Landing" expansion - more ways to interact, diverse mechanics, more things to do and not only to make credits.
 
All I want is for FD to complete, fix, polish, de-bug, balance, and integrate the great variety of existing game mechanics. Finish what you start. Don't give me another partially-complete game element.
 
Absolutely...

Wings is the best thing done so far IMHO ;)

But if we consider broad strokes, what's been added for exploration for example? Different gravitational lensing? And no improving the galaxy map isn't really along the line of stuff we're talking about :)

As I already posted early today:

The original post doesn't really compare like for like - exploration is currently in a generally solid state where the other roles have required some priority fixes and tweaks. Naturally there will be more features and content as we continue and I can see the planetary landings in particular expanding the exploration role.

Michael

I believe exploration is one of the things they have work most on "behind the curtain" even if we haven't seen anything...yet. ;)

And what about for missions and occupations? What significant changes have there been? There was the hope V1.3s Missions Rewrite would bring in far deeper missions (for Powerplay) but alas no sight yet.

So yes, of course loads of features have been improved, and things added here and there, but if you were to look at the core gameplay elements, the professions, and missions etc, what's progressed notably in six+ months?

The mission system rewrite was never meant to bring in that much in terms of new missions. I was mostly a "system upgrade" and not necessarily a "specific missions upgrade". Michael made that rather clear IMO. It's mostly a "under the hood" improvement for future expansions in this area. Something that Michael said again during LaveCon. So even if you might think that there have been no "significant" changes there probably have been loads of it in terms of dev work. Having said that...the missions HAVE been greatly improved IMO. Before 1.3 I had stopped doing them more or less. Now they are my main thing. There might not be too many new missions (with a few exceptions) as such but all of the current ones have been improved quite a bit. Once again...if FD tomorrow put back the 1.0 missions (and the underlying system) as is was back then people would riot. ;)

There have also been other improvements to professions. Mining for example have been improved in 1.3. Bountyhunting have been improved as I see it due to hunts in supercruise, new ships for the role and changes to laws. The fact that NPCs often fly in wings is also an indirect improvement. Trade and smuggling also has some more "depth" to it if you take the powers different effects on exploited systems into account. There are more things I could list, but I don't have the energy right now...basically, read all the change logs since 1.0. :p

But even if some areas have not been as expanded as others their goal for these first few months have been pretty clear to me.

1.1 Polish pass with stuff that probably was almost ready for release, but didn't quite make it.

1.2 Get the multiplayer part of the multiplayer game up and running...rather important! ;)

1.3 Give people a continuously evolving gameplay mechanic to keep them occupied long term. Yes, improvements can certainly be made in terms of how missions are done and rewarded. Also in terms of how some of these things are connected to the world, but the foundation is pretty sound.

Now when that is done they have in my book set the stage for the gameworld and can now focus more attention on the "details".
 
Could it be the "T" word?

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The mission system rewrite was never meant to bring in that much in terms of new missions. I was mostly a "system upgrade" and not necessarily a "specific missions upgrade". Michael made that rather clear IMO. It's mostly a "under the hood" improvement for future expansions in this area.

You see this is where I have a bit of a problem with FD's communications. They bigged this major mission overhaul as part of 1.3 and (as far as I am aware , I am sure you will find a quote to prove me wrong if I am wrong ;) ) it was not until beta hit and people started commenting that missions were essentially the same that this "under the hood" stuff was mentioned. Why big it up as a feature of 1.3 if no one would actually notice the difference.
 
You see this is where I have a bit of a problem with FD's communications. They bigged this major mission overhaul as part of 1.3 and (as far as I am aware , I am sure you will find a quote to prove me wrong if I am wrong ;) ) it was not until beta hit and people started commenting that missions were essentially the same that this "under the hood" stuff was mentioned. Why big it up as a feature of 1.3 if no one would actually notice the difference.

He didn't "big it up"...people did. I even remember pointing this out for people back then (that the underlying system was being overhauled and not necessarily the missions themselves).

Quotes? Sure! :D

What he wrote was this:

Looking further ahead we have the Powerplay update, the big announcement is still a couple of weeks away but I can reveal a bit more of what will form part of the wider update and that is a major overhaul for the missions system. This isn’t directly part of the new Powerplay feature, but does supplement it. We’ve been working on this since the game’s initial release to provide us with a mission system that will support the game as we keep adding new features and content and improve your experience with all missions.

We’ve focused on a few clear goals for this revamp. The first is being able to provide a wider range of missions and in a method we can easily add to and increase variation within the mission type. We’re also adding the ability to select mission locations and targets (where applicable) in the galaxy and system map. Greater use of the player inbox will be used to support mission branches, making them easier to manage.

One of the limitations of the current system is that missions tended to be a good option for starting players, but not so much for later on in the game. The overhaul will address this issue by making missions available for more experienced players as well as specific missions for higher ranks or status – such as being a Founder level member. The system will also expand the influence of reputation on missions to reward players who build a high reputation with minor factions.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=135952

All of this was implemented. Also take note when he said "being able to provide a wider range of missions and in a method we can easily add to and increase variation within the mission type".

He didn't say that 1.3 itself would have huge number of new types of missions, he only said that this new system would be able to provide (support) these type of missions (going forward). Something he then also said again at LaveCon apparently according to people who went there.

This is the reason why I want them to do a feature about this overhaul. Partly to make it clear what WAS done, but also help people get an understanding of what this new system might lead too further down the line. :)
 
This would be the worst thing ever and kill this game completely.

Instead of fixing the issues or expanding on existing mechanics they would try to distract us with some aliens that have nothing to do with the core game or the promised (major) features.

Good thing that's not it then... ;)
 
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