General Gamescom Thoughts - Great Game Undersold?

[wolferr]

Working in IT for decades and listening to sales folks promise those critical software features that you need will come, "in the next release," and waiting in vain AFTER you buy the crappy app for that critical feature, and being ultimately disappointed, I appreciate the care and consistency that FD has displayed as a software development company. Marketing is critical to get the word out, but hyping features that have yet to be implemented can disappoint users. FD already has an incredible game. FD is rightly focusing on that truth. In short, we have the cake and the icing is being slathered on a layer at a time. Yum!

 

[WolfishHickory]

All I can say is if it's between a crowd whooping and hollering at the slightest little thing on screen, and 'The Hair, Tallest Dad and The SpaceLoach™ Cowboy' recapping the recap of the recap, I can actually watch the latter without cringing too much, even if the impact of what they are presenting is substantially less impressive than the former. I think it's a 'plucky, British, 'support the underdog and inappropriate jokes about the type of feed being made' thing?

Haha. Very much this.

 

[Cosmo]

Actual sized celestial objects and true to life distances,

Trading,

Bounty hunting,

Mining,

A working BGS,

Auto generated missions,

An incredible flight and dogfighting system,

Hotas support,

Title of the 'Gold standard in VR' (like, the best of the whole industry),

Hundreds of billions of systems to visit,

An actual story line with incredicble mysteries are critical features not in Star Citizen so I think I can do without first person walking for some time yet.

ED will have all of that eventually. There are a lot of things on this list that SC will never have on the scale ED has them already.

Yes the strongest point of Elite Dangerous is the 1:1 simulation of our galaxy. It's a great space-sim in many respects. It's also lacking some major features (space-legs, first person shooter combat). So this is why all those people lined up to see Star Citizen and NOT Elite Dangerous at Gamescom.

It would be nice if things were the other way around. That Frontier had a big room packed with fans, but that didn't happen at Gamescom this year.

One example of variety: SC has various ship HUDs with different colors. All ED ships have a big orange HUD that cannot be customized or minimized with in-game options. The color can only be changed by modifying the game which is not possible on consoles.

Financially CIG also beats Frontier with their underdevelopment space-sim. They raised 1 million dollars from fans in four days.

Frontier didn't show anything about season 3 so we don't know when those features will come. The missing wow-factor is not good when you try to hype people up and get them excited for the longer-term beyond the next update.

 

[Jools]

The missing wow-factor is not good when you try to hype people up and get them excited for the longer-term beyond the next update.

It`s even worse when you took people`s money for it already

 

[Ian Phillips]

It`s even worse when you took peoples money for it already

No -I can't do - its a cheap jibe.

 

[WolfishHickory]

TL;DR Elite Dangerous has:

• Less Wow-factor stuff
• Less development updates
• Less marketing
• Less mass-audience features (space-legs with first person combat)
• Means less fans, media attention and lower sales

[/QUOTE]

I agree in principle but SC is still not a game and shows no signs of being a game in the near future. You're comparing ED, a game, to SC, some demos and fancy marketing. What ED IS to what SC WILL BE. Until FD start talking more about what ED will be there is no fair comparison to be made. Only FD can do anything about that and as others have rightly said that's a judgement call.

 

[Jools]

No -I can't do - its a cheap jibe.

please don`t hesitate to say whatever you want, i`m not that soft

 

[Cosmo]

I agree in principle but SC is still not a game and shows no signs of being a game in the near future. You're comparing ED, a game, to SC, some demos and fancy marketing. What ED IS to what SC WILL BE. Until FD start talking more about what ED will be there is no fair comparison to be made. Only FD can do anything about that and as others have rightly said that's a judgement call.

True, it's not fair to compare an unfinished game with an already released game. The fact is SC draws the biggest crowds, ED does not. SC gets most backers who eagerly throw money at the screen (a million dollars in a few days). ED does not by comparison.

That should get Frontier pondering about why that is and how they can change it for the better.

 

[Jools]

True, it's not fair to compare an unfinished game with an already released game. The fact is SC draws the biggest crowds, ED does not. SC gets most backers who eagerly throw money at the screen (millions of dollars in a few days). ED does not by comparison.

That should get Frontier pondering about why that is and how they can change it for the better.

Well, actually that was obvious since the start at least from me

SC is the mainstream game. It`s aimed at the largest media consumer in the world - the older teenager
It has the murrican marine drama, overly epic music with legato strings everywhere, bloom, overexposure, shaky cam, superfast cuts etc. Young boys wet their pants watching the trailers and do their thing to "miss marketing" photos

E had no chance if it wanted to be E in the slightest.

That`s why i believe their silly P2P mmo ambition will doom this game (it certainly hinders and limits its development) that could have been Elite 4 - a single player marvel just like the others

 

[Cynaqq]

Yes the strongest point of Elite Dangerous is the 1:1 simulation of our galaxy. It's a great space-sim in many respects. It's also lacking some major features (space-legs, first person shooter combat). So this is why all those people lined up to see Star Citizen and NOT Elite Dangerous at Gamescom.

It would be nice if things were the other way around. That Frontier had a big room packed with fans, but that didn't happen at Gamescom this year.

One example of variety: SC has various ship HUDs with different colors. All ED ships have a big orange HUD that cannot be customized or minimized with in-game options. The color can only be changed by modifying the game which is not possible on consoles.

Financially CIG also beats Frontier with their underdevelopment space-sim. They raised 1 million dollars from fans in four days.

Frontier didn't show anything about season 3 so we don't know when those features will come. The missing wow-factor is not good when you try to hype people up and get them excited for the longer-term beyond the next update.

Slow and steady will win the race, no doubt about it.

Most of what SC shows will be in SQ42, not in PU or whatever they call it, which probably will never happen until SQ42 is sold and years has passed. Either that or it will be nothing like what they led people to believe. Just mark my words.

However, we should leave this discussion because the thread will get closed.

Back on topic, I'm glad FD is focusing on actual work which is possible in the real world and not marketing fantasies. Time will show who's right pretty clearly in the not very distant future.

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True, it's not fair to compare an unfinished game with an already released game. The fact is SC draws the biggest crowds, ED does not. SC gets most backers who eagerly throw money at the screen (a million dollars in a few days). ED does not by comparison.

That should get Frontier pondering about why that is and how they can change it for the better.

Oh, they know why that is, they know it very well, as do you and as do I.

People are idiots, that's exactly why, and they don't really understand development and technology.

How they can change it for the better?

Keep on doing what they are already doing. Build the best game they really can and let it speak for itself, on their own amazing engine, using their own amazing generation algorithms, while making two extremely distinct games, on the same engine, using the exact same technology.

 

[Mc80]

To be fair, you probably wont have the crowd losing their minds about being a bus driver in space. Updates like station interiors and launched fighters or a hireable crew is something that gets people already invested in the game very hyped, but for the masses its something nice to have and almost expected in a patch as big as 2.2.

Now if they would have a announced expanded ground combat with actual combat vehicles, or player owned bases/ capital ships, planetary landing with atmospheres, or as many mentioned FPS combat ala Star Citizen, that would be a whole other league.

It does seem that elite is seen by the public as a poor mans Star Citizen which is only to be used as a stepping stone untill its released.

 

[Darrett]

Slow and steady will win the race, no doubt about it.Most of what SC shows will be in SQ42, not in PU or whatever they call it, which probably will never happen until SQ42 is sold and years has passed. Either that or it will be nothing like what they led people to believe. Just mark my words.However, we should leave this discussion because the thread will get closed.Back on topic, I'm glad FD is focusing on actual work which is possible in the real world and not marketing fantasies. Time will show who's right pretty clearly in the not very distant future.- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -Oh, they know why that is, they know it very well, as do you and as do I. People are idiots, that's exactly why, and they don't really understand development and technology.How they can change it for the better?Keep on doing what they are already doing. Build the best game they really can and let it speak for itself, on their own amazing engine, using their own amazing generation algorithms, while making two extremely distinct games, on the same engine, using the exact same technology.

I doubt that it will "win the race". I wish it would, but in reality, if SC doesn't live up to expectations, most consumers will just write it off and go back to whatever they were playing before. The people who are looking for an action-oriented space game will not make the jump to Elite, because Elite tucks the fun portions away in grind/time intensive activities. You see that with NMS. A ton of people are upset at the game, but you don't see a massive exodus to Elite. Some new customers for certain, but most people aren't going to come over to Elite since Elite doesn't have the exploration mechanics they wanted in NMS.

 

[Rowander]

There's already far too much hype around video games and in 99.99 percent of cases it turns out to be completely unjustified and the games usually end up disappointing many people as a result. I think it's good that FD have stopped following this trend. At the end of the day, a great game will sell on it's own virtues and by simple word of mouth. Hype might drive pre-orders and initial sales, but it can also result in mass refunds. A truly great game will sell for years after launch.

Promotion is important but in a game with such a long scope and a supposed development time of around 10 years, I think you're right. Elite IS known already, even by out-of-the-niche players, and if it keeps getting better, word of mouth will convert some of those players into niche players, driving sales year after year. VR is also a strong selling point and it will be more important with each passing year. And I don't know hoy many times it's been said that Elite is THE best VR game in the market.

Good work will be rewarded in time. Hype and underdelivering won't.

 

[Toramo]

Hello there,

I'm not an elite player anymore and I didn't played it a lot (I managed to get a cobra that's all). I stopped before Horizon.
I don't want to talk about the 'empty' feeling about this game all was said already many times.

Personnaly I keep an eye on Elite. Because I love space game, simply. But for now, from what I can read everywhere about the new features coming up and there, nothing is really exciting in my eyes...
Well, not exactly. Exciting? yes it is. But... I'm worried about the fact that we get only half of what should be implemented at each new feature release.
Just to give an example : Planet landing, you cannot land everywhere ...

So right now, I'm looking, I'm reading, but nothing look finished, completed or create entertainment on me.
Definitely I think Elite is not a game for me or maybe I want too much, I dont know...

The other feeling I had in this game is : How useless I am in this Galaxy ?
I never had the feeling to be recognized or to do something special...
Elite, sometimes provide pleasant situation like being chased by authority ship in an asteroid field.
But most of the time, it sounds like farming and work. That's not what i'm looking for in a game.

I know, we are not talking about the same kind of game, but X3 was something at least as elitist than Elite on a more confined space.
Even today, it looks more epic than Elite.

Yes, epic is maybe the word I was looking for. Elite is beautiful, his emptiness is beautiful, his gameplay is beautiful, jobs are numerous but Elite is not epic.

All that said, even if the gamescom announcement is exciting, I'm not sure that i'll give ED a new shot.
ED is different and more elitist than the other game in this genre. I think they must keep this, it is a force where each other company try to standardize their games (RIP X Rebirth).
They just have to find something that keep the players entertained.

My 2 cents,
Sorry for the wall of text (and sorry about my english )

 

[Monk]

It does seem that elite is seen by the public as a poor mans Star Citizen which is only to be used as a stepping stone untill its released.

Good. In my opinion, the general public has absolutely terrible taste in everything. I mean, for gods' sake, at one point, the general public though a pet rock was amazing...

 

[Lobstris]

SC is the mainstream game. It`s aimed at the largest media consumer in the world - the older teenager
It has the murrican marine drama, overly epic music with legato strings everywhere, bloom, overexposure, shaky cam, superfast cuts etc. Young boys wet their pants watching the trailers and do

Are you saying that new levels of zoom and detail on the system map, and additional filters on the route plotter aren't sexy enough for a teenage audience? Are you saying that statues and parks in the docking bay won't get seats wet? That radiation plumes from stars are not all you dream about of a night? The shame, Sir! The Shame!

And what the heck does it say about me, and my ambitions for the game, if those were the standout features from GamesCom? Can you actually undersell to me?

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Good. In my opinion, the general public has absolutely terrible taste in everything. I mean, for gods' sake, at one point, the general public though a pet rock was amazing...

Oooh! Pet Rocks! With the new geology in place in 2.2, Frontier could sell Fumaroles in the store! And they could sell skins if you wanted different mineral salts on yours!

[Apologies. I'm stuck outside an outpost, waiting for this Eejit to get the heck off the pad, and it's doing my head in...]

[Hmmm. Wonder if the NMS guys have thought of selling plushies of some of their creatures? I could do with a striped, winged, tentacled hand-squid]

[Docking request denied?!?! Arrrgh! Frontier do something about it! This is just a timesink!]

 

[Cynaqq]

fold

Elite is not about one man's epic. It will never be.

How useless you are in this galaxy? That is exactly what this game tries to tell you, and by the looks of things, it has done an amazing job.

Sorry, but some people like it that way.

I'm really sorry this isn't the game you are looking for but not really. If it was, it certainly wouldn't be mine.

 

[WolfishHickory]

I basically agree with everyone in this thread. Its confusing.

Other games aside, I think on the spectrum of hype and populism vs complete insularity FD are erring a little too far towards the latter at the moment. I love my little cult space sim with its goofy livestream, but the odd dev update (ed sitting with a team member every fortnight and looking at what they're working on, whats on their screen, the odd glimpse of something way in the future) wouldn't go amiss. The funding model isn't far off a kickstarter type arrangement even now as far as we know - they need people to keep buying into future content, so on the face of it a certain amount of promises about the future are necessary.

On the other hand maybe they have the next 7 years sewn up and don't need to promise anything or attract new business .

Thinking about it last year everyone was moaning about them showing new features to attract new players for the cashflow rather than concentrating on improving the base game for existing players. Poor fellas can't win can they.

 

[James Razor]

I have the feeling that E-D now gets a lot of things added bit by bit that should have been there from the start. While the late additions are welcome of course, i still think that some things (like the station variation) should have been there from the start.

While i think that FDev now get their act together in certain aspects, i still do not fully trust them to realize what they did wrong with 2.0/2.1. I am still unhappy with the RNGineers and will be until we get all the Quality of Life additions that are so urgently needed (Module and Commodity Storage for Engineer-Commodities).

Other aspects, while welcome, seem to not have been thought through with all their possible consequences (instant ship and module transfer). Currently i am cautious to get my hopes up tbh. because of the disapointments of the past.

 

[William J Smith]

The other feeling I had in this game is : How useless I am in this Galaxy ?
I never had the feeling to be recognized or to do something special...

This is the one defining thing about Elite, and always has been... you are free to do whatever you like because you are nothing special, you're not the dragonborn, not doomguy, you are just regular joe space pilot out to scratch a living by whatever means you can.

I smuggle in open, when ever and where ever I can, ok I take honest trading missions from time to time, but I smuggle for the thrill of it, and do it in open too for even more thrills. this is because its what I want to do.
I could become a miner, but its kinda boring shooting rocks all day, or a PvP'er except being old, my reflexes arent that trigger sharp anymore, this is the freedom of Elite, the core defining trait of the game. theres no quest to do, no side quests, or perks to uprate, no achievements every 5 mins ( Ping : Achievement: turning on your FSD ) its just you, a sidey and the inky depths of space (and airless moons).

As for the matter in hand, I've watched SC demos, and NMS videos and thought that Fdev is doing the space sim the right way
They released a game in dec 2014 that was the bare bones, you had the basic flight model right, the stations, the trading, the combat, the exploration and a selection of ships to do it in, they admitted this at the start in saying "come back in 10 years, you wont belive what we'll turn the game into" (or something like that)
They have'nt tried to go the route of SC and release a game that does everything all at once, or a NMS route of "lets simulate everything that can happen on a planet, then use procedual generation so that everyone sees the same thing", Fdev have cut their own path, they have their plans(suitably modified by the player base... who knew we'd find Jaques that fast) and I have hopes that the Elite game I'm playing next year will be somewhat different to what I'm playing now.
Although some things will still be the same EG being chased by thargoids through witchspace just because they object to my delivering virus materials to a secret human base near their primary system [alien] instead of being chased by the cops for delivering 30 tons of drugs to Solo orbiter in Altair.

Bill

PS has Solo Orbiter had a new paintjob lately?