Getting tired of last-minute Powerplay shenanigans

[Alexander the Grape]

The days of being able to log off on Wednesday evening relatively sure of what to expect the next day are over it seems.

When I went to sleep at about 2:00 AM, the only profitable, not massively opposed and non-bugged Archon Delaine expansion of Matlehi stood at a healthy 106% versus the opposition's 60% or so. That's in itself a hell of an achievement, considering that it's becoming increasingly difficult to get people into conflict zones due to the ludicrously crappy 1 merit per kill mechanic.

Now I check up on it this morning and suddenly over the final few hours it shot up by over 100%? CMDRs are blatantly waiting until the very last minute to drop all of their merits into one system. I bet it was a group of under 10 CMDRs, as the expansion opposition is hilariously easy (15 merits per kill rather than 1).

Combat expansion is awful as is without people cashing in literally thousands of merits in the last few hours before the tickover.

Maybe there should be a cap of say 500 on power vouchers that can be stored at one time, to prevent this kind of gaming the system that benefits opposers more than anyone else

 

[Rubbernuke]

I agree totally, the merits need to be balanced out more. Violent protests and any combat needs to have more reward for the risk you take.

 

[Globusdiablo]

The days of being able to log off on Wednesday evening relatively sure of what to expect the next day are over it seems.

When I went to sleep at about 2:00 AM, the only profitable, not massively opposed and non-bugged Archon Delaine expansion of Matlehi stood at a healthy 106% versus the opposition's 60% or so. That's in itself a hell of an achievement, considering that it's becoming increasingly difficult to get people into conflict zones due to the ludicrously crappy 1 merit per kill mechanic.

Now I check up on it this morning and suddenly over the final few hours it shot up by over 100%? CMDRs are blatantly waiting until the very last minute to drop all of their merits into one system. I bet it was a group of under 10 CMDRs, as the expansion opposition is hilariously easy (15 merits per kill rather than 1).

Combat expansion is awful as is without people cashing in literally thousands of merits in the last few hours before the tickover.

Maybe there should be a cap of say 500 on power vouchers that can be stored at one time, to prevent this kind of gaming the system that benefits opposers more than anyone else

Seconded.

 

[technophebe]

Is it possible that they're just waiting until the last minute to *hand in* the vouchers and have been undermining all week, and there's nothing sinister about it?

Edit: Merit earning *does* need a massive balance.

 

[Viajero]

In my eyes the best solution to last minute cycle shenanigans would be to have the roll over happening randomly around a + and - one day or so range. This way you ll limit tremendously the damage of last minute gamey exploits. I.e. if the current roll over is, say, Wednesdays at midnight UK time, lets make it random between Tuesday midnight and Thursday midnight.

Alternatively if a + and - one day is felt as too much, you can use a + and - 12 hours range, which would still offer decent protection for gamey last minute actions, i.e. random roll over any time from noon Wednesday to noon Thursday UK time.

I ve seen this "random moment within a time range" concept used in other games for similar mechanics and it works fairly well. It obviously doesnt prevent gamey exploits 100% but it limits its potential damage greatly.

 

[skydivertricky]

There was a last minute call (24 hrs to go) on the AL Duval reddit to oppose the expansion. ALD are quite well organised.

 

[Iori]

Since ALD systems are very far from Matlehi, it is not efficient to go back and forth every few merits, so its better to hoard a lot of points until the last moment, no time lost on trips.

 

[Arkhanist]

The call went out in several Imperial powers to oppose Matlehi on Wednesday. It's not terribly surprising that the commanders that responded at short notice went in, fought to build up merits then went home to check them in when they went to bed. 7AM is midnight west coast USA, IIRC so a big surge just before rollover would indeed be about right given the facts.

Or to put it another way, you'll regret trying to expand into Imperial space, you damn dirty pirates.

 

[Straylight0]

Undermining by kills should take effect immediately, why on Earth would it need to be checked i? Like a cartoon running off a cliff and not falling until they look down...

 

[[VR] Deggial]

The whole powerplay points-hording mechanism is problematic.

On the one hand it adds risk vs. reward gameplay (just like bounties and combat bonds gathered but not actually handed in): Efficient credits/bond-farming vs. the threat of losing all due to ship destruction. This is good; it has to stay.

On the other hand, I don't like the feeling of uncertainness this creates. If it is always possible to lose a previously certain expansion due to horded powerplay points, it is never possible to do something else (bounty hunting, trading, other PP tasks,...)
Don't get me wrong: I do NOT refer to last-hour activities of opposing forces! This is and should be always possible and has to be considered. I am ONLY talking about long-term hording of powerplay points in order to "one-shot" an expansion without previous warning due to increasing opposition numbers!

So, how can this be solved?

What about this:
- powerplay points are still gathered and only come to effect when turned-in and translated into merits.
- however, all currently not turned-in powerplay points are instantly displayed in the power overview/expansion-tab as POTENTIALL percental values in addition to the already achieved progress. The values would be displayed on top of the achieved progress bar with lighter (or more transparent) colors.
- If a player's ship is destroyed, the potential values are subtracted from the potential percental values.
- If a player's turns in his powerplay points, the potential values are subtracted from the potential percental values and added to the effectively achieved progress.

 

[Muzz UK]

It really bothers me a Sidewinder and Conda are worth 1 merit each or 15 each in enemy space.

Small ships should be 1 merit or 5 merits...
Medium 3 merits or 10 merits...
Big ships 5 merits or 15 merits...

I think the cargo/prisoners/plans you pickup from transport or intel ships should be worth 5 each as well.

I don't even bother farming merits unless I'm in enemy space now 15 a time takes me a couple of hours to hit my rank 4 every week. Where as if I actually played properly in my own space I'd have to put days in!

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

CMDRs are blatantly waiting until the very last minute to drop all of their merits into one system.

The whole powerplay points-hording mechanism is problematic.

So what ?

Why is this even considered a problem that requires dev time to fix ?

Whether you turn in everything as you get it, or horde and turn in near the end of the cycle, the result is the same. You turned in X .. opposition turned in Y ... one of you wins.

*boggle*

 

[LARY STARKEEPER]

DAMN ! I'm so bored of being fooled by Frontier !

So what ?

Why is this even considered a problem that requires dev time to fix ?

*boggle*

Because it's PvP and PvP needs balancing ? You troll !
The problem isn't the last minute drop. The prob is the easy counter-expansions.

 

[Aewarin Jameson]

Because it's PvP and PvP needs balancing ? You troll !

Not even sure if this is sarcastic or not, so I will take you at face value.

Hording vouchers could be considered a tactic to make you think that you've done enough and move on, when in reality you haven't and should have stayed to do more.

Strategic ? Maybe .. but it's not an issue that needs a dev to fix IMO :S

- - - Updated - - -

The problem isn't the last minute drop. The prob is the easy counter-expansions.

Right .. so the problem is really to do with the relative value of the activities you're doing, not the actual hording of them ?

OK .. different problem to what the OP described

 

[LARY STARKEEPER]

Not even sure if this is sarcastic or not, so I will take you at face value.

Hording vouchers could be considered a tactic to make you think that you've done enough and move on, when in reality you haven't and should have stayed to do more.

Strategic ? Maybe .. but it's not an issue that needs a dev to fix IMO :S

- - - Updated - - -



Right .. so the problem is really to do with the relative value of the activities you're doing, not the actual hording of them ?

OK .. different problem to what the OP described

If you're expecting to take a system after a week of hard earned PP vouchers, you're going to sleep, and when you wake up, you see that for less efforts (and more FUN!), the enemy has taken you out. Do you think it's fair ?

 

[el_tel]

So what ?

Why is this even considered a problem that requires dev time to fix ?

Whether you turn in everything as you get it, or horde and turn in near the end of the cycle, the result is the same. You turned in X .. opposition turned in Y ... one of you wins.

*boggle*

...You troll !...

LOL. That's just too funny!

 

[ExRex]

Yep. This is what happens when you mix turn-based strategy with real time, voluntary play. It's quite a difficult task FD has set for themselves by doing so rather than simply having undermined or expanded system change after a set duration of keeping a certain threshold.

If they DO insist on keeping up with a turn-based thing, why not let merits that are used in the beginning of the cycle be of more value than merits that are being used at the last minute, e.g. in the 24 hours leading up to the end of cycle?

 

[Muetdhiver]

I agree that the different expansions / prep task for the different powers are massively tilted to the 'hauling' side.

I mean 1 merit per ship, who the hell thought that was a good idea ? They could have simply copy-paste the CZ payout structure and be done/fine with it.

Also, the whole go to solo to bypass any organized defense by the defending CMDR's is beyond word.
PP is supposed to be the collective/multiplayer part of the game, yet there is magic solo mode to just bypass all.
It is very much like playing capture the flag in an FPS in solo mode...

I really think that everything powerplay related should be open only.

 

[Guidebot]

I agree that the current merit allocation rates are way off. 15 Merits per kill in an enemy system is fine. 1 merit per kill in a resistance pocket is absolutely awful.

 

[[VR] Deggial]

So what ?

Why is this even considered a problem that requires dev time to fix ?

Whether you turn in everything as you get it, or horde and turn in near the end of the cycle, the result is the same. You turned in X .. opposition turned in Y ... one of you wins.

*boggle*

For me, the problem is that this uncertainty creates an unpleasant overall atmosphere and binds play-time to a single task: the expansion goal.
If you realy want to be sure the expansion succeeds, you will have to keep figthing on and on - even if there is no opposition at all - just because you can never know!

This limits your play options instead of adding an additional game experience. PP isn't (or at least shouldn't be) a game mechanic that demands all your in-game time. Bounty hunting, trading, mining (even undermining other powers)... all this are fun activities that should be possible even if you are engaged in the expansion of your power. The current implementation steals this variety and this IS a problem, imo.