Getting used to rudder pedals

[Major Klutz]

So I got some Saitek Pro Flight Rudder pedals to go with my X52 Pro HOTAS
I've been contemplating getting some rudder pedals for a year or two. At first for chopper flying in ARMA3 and more lately for Elite.

I'm finding it a bit of a challenge to get used to them. I can see I'm going to have to log some serious flight hours before they become instinctive.
I've been using twist stick for rudder in every flying game I've played since the late 90's.

For now I'm in a Cobra so my re-buy is cheap in case I crash it, which I'm bound to do. I keep trying to twist the stick instinctively and when that doesn't work, I remember to use the pedals but I end up turning the wrong way.

Question for other pedal users.
Do you use the toe brakes for anything? I don't have them bound since I can't seem to use the pedals without pressing the toe brakes randomly.

Do you use the pedals to steer the SRV? I'm staying with the stick for steering but I'm contemplating using the toe brakes for throttle and brake in the SRV.

Others who have made the transition, How long did it take you to get used to the pedals? 20 hours? 100 hours?

Is there any way I can bind BOTH the pedals AND the stick twist axis to the Yaw control?

 

[Asp Explorer]

I have the exact same set.

There's about an inch of dust on them

 

[Punished Mobius]

I bound FSD drive and Flight assist to my pedals as secondary binding. Other than that they just kind of sit there looking cool.

For the SRV I do use them for handbrake and boosters as well. Otherwise just stick to the stick.

 

[Gunnet]

I use toe brakes for lateral thrust. I also use the pedal yaw axis for steering the SRV, since it keeps the stick free for attitude control while flying with thrusters.

I've been using pedals for so long that I couldn't tell you how long it took me to get used to them. Twisty sticks have never really felt right to me.

You should be able to assign the pedals and twist to the same axis via drivers. But I have no clue how good Saitek's current drivers are.

 

[DNA-Decay]

I use the toe pedals for lateral thrust.

But they're the opposite way round.

Left toe thrusts right.

Why?

Glad you asked.


With my left leg at full extension (right leg doing nothing) I am turning left and strafing right. Circling my target.
I also usually thrust down and pitch up to circle my target in that way too.


One of the hardest things to track is an object that is moving in all 3 axes simultaneously.
If we start nose to nose, very soon you have to pitch down to even see me.


There is a caveat.
Frontier in their wisdom do not let you have partial axis split across two controllers.
It's hard to explain - it the effect is that lateral thrust is like a switch.
So instead of having this lovely fine control of strafing left and right, say on approach to a pad, you get this full on or full off lateral thrust.
Frontier don't even get that it's a problem, and those of us with lateral thrust mapped into two axes learn to live with it.


Last thing I will bore you with, is keep yaw in the pedals in the SRV.
It's HELLER fun!

Throttle in the left hand. Steering with the feet. Aiming with the mouse.
Just do some city racing with yaw in the pedals and you'll get muscle memory in ten minutes.
Yaw is nerfed in spaceships but fully rocks out in the SRVs.

 

[mp4x]

I have the same pedals, I use them for ED 'sometimes,' I suppose I could say. After using them for a couple of months straight, I just somewhat got sick of 'em. I tend to use the flight stick twist/yaw now, most the time, and use the pedals as a foot rest. Both the stick and my pedals are configured to work, so using one or the other is always an option

They feel more appropriate for me to use when I play WarThunder/DCS World/etc.

I inherited them, they're fun to use sometime but to be honest if I didn't already have them, knowing how and when I DO use them, I wouldn't buy a set myself

 

[Major Klutz]

... Both the stick and my pedals are configured to work, so using one or the other is always an option
...

How? I would like to do that but under flight rotation you can only map one analog axis to yaw.

 

[[VR] Deggial]

@DNA-Decay: Interesting and very reasonable bindings! I am almost tempted to try this, too.

Unfortunately, my muscle memory is trained already to a combination I really like:
Left toe break to toggle FA, right toe break to boost.
For me, this has two advantages:
- As I drove cars for longer than flying space ships, decoupling with the left foot and controlling speed with the rigth felt very natural.
- In combat, I use FA-OFF regularly and I obviously boost a lot, too. Using both toe breaks at once in order to perform a speed-turn feels strangely satisfying.
(This setup was a tiny problem in stations, though, when the toe breaks de-calibrated. Unintended boosts are quite ... surprising. )

For driving the SRV, I also mimick car pedals: breaks left, gas right. The throttle does nothing while driving.
It feels natural and makes driving the SRV a very different body experience in contrast to flying the ships.

 

[Morbad]

Do you use the toe brakes for anything?

Forward and reverse thrust override. I use a forward only throttle with a reverse toggle, but do most of my combat reversing and landing with the toe breaks.

Do you use the pedals to steer the SRV?

Yes, and I keep the stick for pitch/roll. Makes the transition from ship to SRV less jarring with as much working the same as possible.

Others who have made the transition, How long did it take you to get used to the pedals? 20 hours? 100 hours?

Not long for basic proficiency/instinctiveness...maybe two or three hours of aggressive flying in the tutorials...a week or so for mastery.

There is a caveat.
Frontier in their wisdom do not let you have partial axis split across two controllers.

Fortunately I was able to use my CH software to combine my toe breaks into one axis, so I can use them for the forward/reverse thrust override I mentioned.

Unfortunately, the SRV throttle doesn't work the same way as the ships thrusters, so I have to pick one or the other. Since I spend much of my time in combat and fight far more in a ship than in an SRV, I go with the thruster bindings.

 

[DNA-Decay]

Forward and reverse thrust override. I use a forward only throttle with a reverse toggle, but do most of my combat reversing and landing with the toe breaks.



Yes, and I keep the stick for pitch/roll. Makes the transition from ship to SRV less jarring with as much working the same as possible.



Not long for basic proficiency/instinctiveness...maybe two or three hours of aggressive flying in the tutorials...a week or so for mastery.



Fortunately I was able to use my CH software to combine my toe breaks into one axis, so I can use them for the forward/reverse thrust override I mentioned.

Unfortunately, the SRV throttle doesn't work the same way as the ships thrusters, so I have to pick one or the other. Since I spend much of my time in combat and fight far more in a ship than in an SRV, I go with the thruster bindings.

Wait - isn't thrust reverse a toggle not an axis? So you're still not mapping two axes to an axis.

There was a thread by someone smarter than me who looked into it.
He flailed away at the problem, but you either need a single continuous axis to map to lateral thrust.
Left thrust only and right thrust only cannot be mapped to separate axes. Only separate switches.

Minor detail that affects very few people.
But same as with Long Hair "If you solve for the edge cases the center looks after itself"

 

[mp4x]

Ah, sorry Major, I didn't mean simultaneously - I leave it plugged in and have a separate config files for with/without pedals - but I do have to quickly jump into the options and use the drop-down to select the pedal config. I don't think/remember if it can be set up in 'alternative flight controls' as a second axis

How? I would like to do that but under flight rotation you can only map one analog axis to yaw.

 

[Morbad]

So you're still not mapping two axes to an axis.

Both of my toe breaks are the same continuous, full-range, axis, as far as Elite is concerned. It centers at 128 when both toe breaks are released and the inputs combine in different directions (full reverse when just the left is fully depressed, full forward with just the right, and 0 again with both full).

Since I'm using CH stuff, I do this via CH Control Manager, but I am certain there are third party utilities that can do the same thing.

// CMS Script File
//
//     Game Title: Elite: Dangerous
//     Written By: Morbad
//           Date: 01/11/2015
//
script
%define PEDAL_L js3.a1
%define PEDAL_R js3.a2
%define TROTTLE_POSITION cms.a1
cms.a1 = (128 + (PEDAL_R/2)) - ((PEDAL_L + 1) / 2);
endScript

 

[DNA-Decay]

Both of my toe breaks are the same continuous, full-range, axis, as far as Elite is concerned. It centers at 128 when both toe breaks are released and the inputs combine in different directions (full reverse when just the left is fully depressed, full forward with just the right, and 0 again with both full).

Since I'm using CH stuff, I do this via CH Control Manager, but I am certain there are third party utilities that can do the same thing.

// CMS Script File
//
//     Game Title: Elite: Dangerous
//     Written By: Morbad
//           Date: 01/11/2015
//
script
%define PEDAL_L js3.a1
%define PEDAL_R js3.a2
%define TROTTLE_POSITION cms.a1
cms.a1 = (128 + (PEDAL_R/2)) - ((PEDAL_L + 1) / 2);
endScript

Pedal
Pedals.
#Pedals
[PEDALS]
Pedalos

Just tagging this for the search engine.

 

[Mr_sukebe]

Took me around a month of use until I could use rudders without needing to think about it. Being fair, I use them more flying a Huey in DCS.
I use my toe brakes for forward and reverse thrust. That allows me to set the throttle to roughly mid way for max turn rate by default, then override with the pedals as needed to be a more difficult target to hit.

 

[Madcowz]

I went from twist to pedals recently as I had a pair of CH pedals sitting gathering dust. It took me about 2 months of infrequent flying until using them rather than the stick became second nature. Now I couldn't go back/wouldn't want to.

I'm yet to use the toe brakes for anything as I already have a HOTAS that doesn't have everything bound as I'm such a ditherer and can never decide what to put where.

 

[CylonSurfer]

I use the toe pedals for lateral thrust.
There is a caveat.
Frontier in their wisdom do not let you have partial axis split across two controllers.
It's hard to explain - it the effect is that lateral thrust is like a switch.
So instead of having this lovely fine control of strafing left and right, say on approach to a pad, you get this full on or full off lateral thrust.
Frontier don't even get that it's a problem, and those of us with lateral thrust mapped into two axes learn to live with it.

Use this to merge your toe brakes into one axis (you will also need to install VJOY):

https://autohotkey.com/board/topic/89279-ujr-universal-joystick-remapper-using-vjoy/#entry565573

http://vjoystick.sourceforge.net/si...93-ujr-universal-joystick-remapper-using-vjoy

After that, jobs a gooden. Full, fine control over lateral thrust will be yours. I also use the brake axis as accelerate and reverse in the SRV - feels more like driving a car for me. I have every one of the ships thrusters bound to an axis in game, precise control over every one of them. Personally I use the toe brakes for vertical thrust and thumb stick modded into my warthog throttle for laterial thrust.

(The X55 stick has since been replaced with a Warthog stick)

There is no reason you should learn to live with anything in this world - there is always a way if you look hard enough

Back on topic, it takes a bit of time to get out of the twist stick habbit, but its well worth it in my opinion. You no longer get the small bleed onto other thrusters when you twisted your stick (or the other way around) and after some time it will feel 100% natural.

 

[KillaALF]

Toe brakes for up/down thrusters, respectively up thrusters/handbrake in the SRV, I steer the SRV with the stick, throttle is throttle for both flight and SRV.

Warthog + MFG Crosswinds

 

[VR andysonofbob]

I am using my steering wheel pedals which fortunately the Logitech software software allows you to combine them. I have gone twin stick and use the pedals as throttle. I think I am becoming proficient but it took don't getting used to.

I would use one toe break for boost and the other for chaff

 

[CylonSurfer]

I am using my steering wheel pedals which fortunately the Logitech software software allows you to combine them. I have gone twin stick and use the pedals as throttle. I think I am becoming proficient but it took don't getting used to.

I would use one toe break for boost and the other for chaff

I wouldn't waste a single axis on what can be done with buttons

 

[SeaFireliv]

So I got some Saitek Pro Flight Rudder pedals to go with my X52 Pro HOTAS
I've been contemplating getting some rudder pedals for a year or two. At first for chopper flying in ARMA3 and more lately for Elite.

I'm finding it a bit of a challenge to get used to them. I can see I'm going to have to log some serious flight hours before they become instinctive.
I've been using twist stick for rudder in every flying game I've played since the late 90's.

For now I'm in a Cobra so my re-buy is cheap in case I crash it, which I'm bound to do. I keep trying to twist the stick instinctively and when that doesn't work, I remember to use the pedals but I end up turning the wrong way.

Question for other pedal users.
Do you use the toe brakes for anything? I don't have them bound since I can't seem to use the pedals without pressing the toe brakes randomly.

Do you use the pedals to steer the SRV? I'm staying with the stick for steering but I'm contemplating using the toe brakes for throttle and brake in the SRV.

Others who have made the transition, How long did it take you to get used to the pedals? 20 hours? 100 hours?

Is there any way I can bind BOTH the pedals AND the stick twist axis to the Yaw control?

I don`t use the toe brakes.. i might do, didn`t consider it.

I use the pedals to yaw sideways like on an aircraft. Great for escaping interdictions (against AI not sure how effective it would be against Human).

I made the transition with flight sims, took about a week. One thing I did was making the Left pedal for `Yaw left` and the right pedal for `Yaw right`, like in an aircraft.

I`ve never put the stick twist and pedals togther, i don`t advise it you`ll just confuse yourself- Have it on one or other, not both.