Give hauler ships an innate cargohold to make them actual haulers

[Vasious]

Says who? If I buy 700 tonnes of slaves are you suggesting I have 7000 people on my ship? (700t -> 700,000kg -> 100kg per person -> 7000)
I say each person occupies 1 cubic meter, which could be thought of as a volumetric tonne.
If we use that notion then it makes a lot more sense that a ship that can carry 700 tonnes of vegetables or 700 tonnes of Gold in the same cargo space. If we go off weight the veggies would occupy a considerably great volume than 700 tonnes of Gold. So using the shipping model anything that has a volume of less than 1 cubic meter per tonne, i.e. Gold is measured by mass, anything that is greater is measured by volumetric weight, which equates to the volume occupied by a reference mass, often water, which is about 1tonne per cubic meter.

Note MASS not weight to account for differing gravities. Divide weight by 10-ish on Earth

You would have 700 Slaves as each 1 is in 1 Cargo container, just as any other commodity traded.
Each container adds 1 tonne of mass to your ship
Jettison 1 unit of cargo, one cargo container is jettisoned, and the mass of the ship is reduced by one tonne
It is inferred that the container contains the commodity as well as any support needed to sustain the commodity in a vacuum without harm plus ballast

A universal mass and shape of a cargo container allows for easy of transport, un/loadings and load balancing

 

[VirtueXOI]

what is one tonne of slave tho

 

[Greasetrap42]

From another thread I just had another thought that can differentiate a cargo ship from a converted combat ship.

Forget the small cargo hatch and automated racking system. Cargo ships should have the ability to open big doors to receive large items for transport. Thrusters, FSDs, heck why not entire small sized ship... if it fits.

The available space inside a T9 must be huge. Get rid of the racks and crap and fit big external loading doors. Voila, a cargo freighter.

Differentiating a cargo ship from other ships:

• Much cheaper than most equivalent sized ships.
• Much faster loading/unloading time.
• Ability to haul physicaly large items that other ships can't.
• Ability to dock large sized freighter ship at any sized station for loading/unloading (not other purposes). At freighter docking utility locations. (loading docks)

 

[lemon407]

Says who? If I buy 700 tonnes of slaves are you suggesting I have 7000 people on my ship? (700t -> 700,000kg -> 100kg per person -> 7000)
I say each person occupies 1 cubic meter, which could be thought of as a volumetric tonne.
If we use that notion then it makes a lot more sense that a ship that can carry 700 tonnes of vegetables or 700 tonnes of Gold in the same cargo space. If we go off weight the veggies would occupy a considerably great volume than 700 tonnes of Gold. So using the shipping model anything that has a volume of less than 1 cubic meter per tonne, i.e. Gold is measured by mass, anything that is greater is measured by volumetric weight, which equates to the volume occupied by a reference mass, often water, which is about 1tonne per cubic meter.

Note MASS not weight to account for differing gravities. Divide weight by 10-ish on Earth

Science says.
A metric cubic ton, of water is 1000cm x 1000cm x 1000 cm. Thats not weight, thats mass, if i can carry that, why can in only carry 1 metric cubic ton of gold in that same space, which is only 37cm x 37cm x 37cm. Thats nothing to do with the weight of it on the planet im on, thats literally just its mass. If i said weight before i meant the mass.

 

[Ganogati]

Yea... I wouldn't strain the brain too hard trying to figure out how the cargorack system works in this game. If you think about it too much the magic is lost. Take a class 1 slot: it can hold a cargo rack that holds 2T worth of crap, which is basically the equivalent of 3-4 copies of my pickup truck, OR it can hold a single flight assist card which the icon makes it look like it's about the same size as my desktop's graphics card.

I just pretend like the T means anything other than Ton and don't think that much harder about it

 

[lemon407]

Yea... I wouldn't strain the brain too hard trying to figure out how the cargorack system works in this game. If you think about it too much the magic is lost. Take a class 1 cargoslot: it can hold 2T worth of crap, which is basically the equivalent of 3-4 copies of my pickup truck, OR it can hold a single flight assist card which the icon makes it look like it's about the same size as my desktop's graphics card.

I just pretend like the T means anything other than Ton and don't think that much harder about it

Thats kinda what i have to do anymore, like module slots i can pass off as <insert space magic reason here> but when it comes to just hauling cargo, i really dont get why they are using mass not volume, its just boggles my mind.

 

[RamirezKurita]

Yea... I wouldn't strain the brain too hard trying to figure out how the cargorack system works in this game. If you think about it too much the magic is lost. Take a class 1 slot: it can hold a cargo rack that holds 2T worth of crap, which is basically the equivalent of 3-4 copies of my pickup truck, OR it can hold a single flight assist card which the icon makes it look like it's about the same size as my desktop's graphics card.

I just pretend like the T means anything other than Ton and don't think that much harder about it

It might look like a little add-in card by the icon, but the fact that it occupies an entire slot, weighs in at the multiple tonnes and consumes hundreds of kilowatts of power shows that it isn't a little add-in card but something more like a medium-large supercomputer with rack after rack of high-density compute modules. A modern high-end desktop computer, for comparison, only consumes ~500W by comparison.

Of course, that boggles the mind a bit as to why a basic docking computer, which doesn't even calculate things itself as it passes control over to the station, requires supercomputer levels of performance.

 

[Drelthar]

Of course, that boggles the mind a bit as to why a basic docking computer, which doesn't even calculate things itself as it passes control over to the station, requires supercomputer levels of performance.

Corporate monopoly on computing held by a corporation making terribly inefficient computer systems/software.
Not that unrealistic...

 

[Northpin]

As far as i'm concerned ships are ok-ish.
But there is an aspect that's ruining it for me - bullet-sponges due to mrp/hrp/scb stacking, which also creates strong imbalances between a dedicated combat ship (military ship) and a general utility ship (trader, miner, mission runner - anything that is not dedicated to combat exclusively)

 

[VirtueXOI]

As far as i'm concerned ships are ok-ish.
But there is an aspect that's ruining it for me - bullet-sponges due to mrp/hrp/scb stacking, which also creates strong imbalances between a dedicated combat ship (military ship) and a general utility ship (trader, miner, mission runner - anything that is not dedicated to combat exclusively)

By giving some ship more specialized "module racks" you may also reduc the sponge effect on some "utility" ships. As exemple giving the T7 2 size 6 commercial compartment , but removing 1 of his regular Rank 6 may balance T7 a bit more in a "trading cargo ship" way. It is just some example tho , dont want it to be like that. Just saying the global idea is to give some ship real intereset for some gameplay.
I really dont want to limit player choice to much tho, because it is a part of the game fun

 

[Northpin]

By giving some ship more specialized "module racks" you may also reduc the sponge effect on some "utility" ships. As exemple giving the T7 2 size 6 commercial compartment , but removing 1 of his regular Rank 6 may balance T7 a bit more in a "trading cargo ship" way. It is just some example tho , dont want it to be like that. Just saying the global idea is to give some ship real intereset for some gameplay.
I really dont want to limit player choice to much tho, because it is a part of the game fun

Well, the problem is not that a T7 cannot carry cargo, but the fact that i can pump up a Krait with hrp/mrp/scb and transform it into a murder ship or the fact that a FDL can reach not only 5.5k shields, but also 3k hulls (after resists)
And this means that a murder boat can pop in an instance, kill any non combat ship, then leave without being any second in danger.

 

[VirtueXOI]

I'm not really sure I follow you on that , I like the fact that a combat ship can be beast at some point. But i agree that FDL is a bit strong .

 

[Maggie_Oz]

if i can carry that, why can in only carry 1 metric cubic ton of gold in that same space, which is only 37cm x 37cm x 37cm

The reason is that it then becomes about loading. In the end the Mass of the cargo you carry and how it's distributed.
So while 1t of Gold is in a smaller space you can still only carry 700 tonnes of it .
If I fill the volume if the cargo space with a light material though, while my mass will be much lower I still can't carry anymore cargo simply because there is no more room.
My running costs are the same though. So to make it economic you charge by mass for things above 1t/m3 and volumetric mass for things below 1t/m3
Shipping containers are a good way of conceptualizing in.
You pay a flat fee to ship the container and it can weigh up to a nominated maximum tonnage.
ED cargo racking us a container system too.

 

[Darkeyed]

Well, the problem is not that a T7 cannot carry cargo, but the fact that i can pump up a Krait with hrp/mrp/scb and transform it into a murder ship or the fact that a FDL can reach not only 5.5k shields, but also 3k hulls (after resists)
And this means that a murder boat can pop in an instance, kill any non combat ship, then leave without being any second in danger.

the shields and armor are not what makes a fdl be able to slaughter the t7 with no risk you could give an fdl the same shields as a t7 its still gonna slaughter the t7 the t7 has 4 size 1 hard points. the fdl has 4 size 2 and 1 size 4 the krait has 3 size 3 slots get the idea?

 

[lemon407]

So while 1t of Gold is in a smaller space you can still only carry 700 tonnes of it .

I get that, but the issue i have is that if i have a cargo rack of size 16, that should equate out to a volume that i can store things in, and my ship overall should have a maximum cargo mass that i can haul, based on engine and mass of ship ect ect. Like if i wanted to make a ship that has low cargo volume and focus on just hauling dense high value items, that should be a thing. Rather then just, here you go, a space of a ton, they are making volume measured by mass and its just really weird and silly.

I chalk it up to a carry of from past games.

 

[Synthia]

standard-sized cargo containers with ballast, such that they have consistent mass, makes some sense. It means a consistent set of cargo-handling equipment across the galaxy, and loading operations should be simple, fast, and efficient.
It means a captain does not need to hire and pay a loadmaster, to supervise cargo loading/unloading, so that massy containers are loaded in the correct way. It means at any random destination, any container can be unloaded, without having to re-arrange several of the remaining containers.
It means you don't have to adjust the thrusters to take account of the fact that some idiot loaded the gold in the aft compartments and the feather pillows in the forward compartments.

but on the other hand, aaaaaarrgh.

 

[Maggie_Oz]

I get that, but the issue i have is that if i have a cargo rack of size 16, that should equate out to a volume that i can store things in, and my ship overall should have a maximum cargo mass that i can haul, based on engine and mass of ship ect ect. Like if i wanted to make a ship that has low cargo volume and focus on just hauling dense high value items, that should be a thing. Rather then just, here you go, a space of a ton, they are making volume measured by mass and its just really weird and silly.

I chalk it up to a carry of from past games.

This would require a bit more resolution on the current model of cargo hauling and it has merit.
It's also kind of what the OP is hinting at, giving haulers the ability to specialise.
Bulk Ore carriers, Bulk Tritium Carriers all that would be interesting inclusions in the game.

 

[[PS4] Filthymick420]

Why would anyone grind deep core mining, just to get another ship, so they can continue to grind deep core mining?

The only reason why this post is relevant is because people do grind. But for people like me who don't, the price is a serious consideration.

Ive never grinded mining. I pretty much only mine once every few months. 200+m per trip. Im not rich by ED standards but money has still never been an issue. Its nice to have that big capable ship to use to keep your creds nice so you dont have to grind

 

[Darkeyed]

It means a captain does not need to hire and pay a loadmaster, to supervise cargo loading/unloading, so that massy containers are loaded in the correct way. It means at any random destination, any container can be unloaded, without having to re-arrange several of the remaining containers.

ummmm as someone that works as a boss of unloading crew no dock is gonna let some random captain use their loading equipment or even do it on the dock. thats asking for things to get broken and people to be hurt or things stolen.

 

[Captain Willard]

No let's not.